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Propheteer

Globalize CA Help Across All Servers/Kingdoms

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Something that might help new players get help, no matter what server they start on.

 

Just remove the list of online CA's in the tab, and keep CA text a specific colour. Maybe use the MOTD feature to notify people in the chat that people speaking in that colour are CA's or some other staff.

Edited by Propheteer
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+1 to this, I also am aware that CM+ can see who is online Via the CA help channel, this would need to be removed from pvp servers.

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34 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

who is online Via the CA help channel

 

It only shows who has CA Help enabled.

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Globalising might be a bit TOO extreme, as we have xanadu obviously being the busiest, merging too many will lead to congestion of a lot of different questions, answers, and veterans sick of the spam turning it off.

 

That said, I have been looking at the best way to allow it to work on PvP servers, currently new players spawning on Chaos or Elevation have no CA help (with the home servers being little better)

 

There comes a problem with CA's not wanting to show as online, being easy to tell when someone is on is always a down side.

 

Long story short, already looking at this with the dev team.

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4 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Globalising might be a bit TOO extreme, as we have xanadu obviously being the busiest, merging too many will lead to congestion of a lot of different questions, answers, and veterans sick of the spam turning it off.

 

That said, I have been looking at the best way to allow it to work on PvP servers, currently new players spawning on Chaos or Elevation have no CA help (with the home servers being little better)

 

There comes a problem with CA's not wanting to show as online, being easy to tell when someone is on is always a down side.

 

Long story short, already looking at this with the dev team.

 

Best way to add it to Elevation would be to link each kingdom to their homeservers CA Help.

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maybe if all the names in the CA channels in PvP servers were modified in a way that cant be identified. Or everyone showing up with the same generic name, or no name at all.  After all, identification is not really needed in a CA channel with little traffic.

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I'd be down to help people while I'm grinding on chaos for example, a change I've been wanting for a while

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There is no CA-Help on Chaos... at all. Would be nice to not need to cross the bloody server to ask some questions. 

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Good idea, especially for epic.

 

Freedom I never been so cannot comment on that part.

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11 hours ago, Matholameu said:

There is no CA-Help on Chaos... at all. Would be nice to not need to cross the bloody server to ask some questions. 

 

Just ask in open kingdom chat... and also give your location :ph34r:

 

Kidding aside, no problems with havig a CA channel accessable from servers like Chaos; though, I agree having a single, global CA chat would quickly become crowded with questions.

 

And that's not even getting into the potential for abuses on pvp and even pve servers.

Edited by Klaa
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1 hour ago, Klaa said:

 

Just ask in open kingdom chat... and also give your location :ph34r:

 

Kidding aside, no problems with havig a CA channel accessable from servers like Chaos; though, I agree having a single, global CA chat would quickly become crowded with questions.

 

And that's not even getting into the potential for abuses on pvp and even pve servers.

 

The pros outweigh the cons in every category, and the potential abuses are easily rectified.

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CA can only view who's online on the server they are currently on. If you link servers, just disallow it on PvP like many other features. If there was a way to do so. If a CA/CM is on PvP they loose the view online feature but still have the help tab. Or like we have a separate tab for GV help, make one for PvP as well. Same idea with disabling seeing list of who's online. 

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5 hours ago, Propheteer said:

 

The pros outweigh the cons in every category, and the potential abuses are easily rectified.

 

Potential abuses are human-based, which are hardly easy to rectify. Think back on the historical abuses in Wurm by staff, at least the ones caught. That was just the stuff which can be tracked, logged, and monitored. Proving that someone let slip the online status and/or general location of someone else? Yeah... good luck with that.

 

Not meaning to besmirch the Devs, GMs, and other staff. For the most part they do decent work and work hard; however, there's still that human element. I for one do not trust humans blindly; though, I and some family work in security fields, so granted have a dim view of humanity in general. Then there's family involved in medical fields, which doesn't help either.

 

Even completely ignoring all those concerns, which sure can be somewhat rectified by removing the pvp "who's online"... there's the huge possibility of a single all-encompassing CA channel becoming swamped by an tsunami of questions.

 

Sure advantages in merging various channels; however, there's also advantages in keeping them separate. For example, majority of new players are inclined to set up on Home and PvE servers. Pvp servers like Wild and even kingdoms like the BL (EDIT: yeah yeah I know... sadly I am well aware of the current BL status :() tended to be the more veteran playerbase. Granted there is the occasional raw newb that jumps straight in. Sort of did that myself; however, I did spend a couple weeks getting the initial hang of the game... before any kind of tutorial, CA channel, even CAs for that matter, general guides, and the wurmpedia was nothing like it is now. Probably why some people kept thinking I was a GM in disguise or some such silliness. <_<

Edited by Klaa

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Another big difference is PvP knowledge vs PvE knowledge.

 

A lot of Epic related knowledge is not available in the wiki, and is often passed on as word of mouth, which means that PvE Staff don't always have the ability to answer PvP oriented questions without speaking with PvP staff..

 

I'd like very much for more PvP knowledge on the team, but as PvP members on the team both past and present know, that can be an incredibly difficult role.

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29 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Another big difference is PvP knowledge vs PvE knowledge.

 

A lot of Epic related knowledge is not available in the wiki, and is often passed on as word of mouth, which means that PvE Staff don't always have the ability to answer PvP oriented questions without speaking with PvP staff..

 

I'd like very much for more PvP knowledge on the team, but as PvP members on the team both past and present know, that can be an incredibly difficult role.

you can blame that on a lack of professionalism, if staff members only posted Official business on their staff accounts/forum accounts, then there would not even be the slightest of ties between player(accounts) and staff accounts. Players only have a name to blame, because its given out freely.

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

Another big difference is PvP knowledge vs PvE knowledge.

 

A lot of Epic related knowledge is not available in the wiki, and is often passed on as word of mouth, which means that PvE Staff don't always have the ability to answer PvP oriented questions without speaking with PvP staff..

 

I'd like very much for more PvP knowledge on the team, but as PvP members on the team both past and present know, that can be an incredibly difficult role.

I feel like that incredibly difficult role is created by the Wurm team rather then it being an impossible feat...

 

You don't have to put a pvp vet ON the team all you need is to put together a small consult group and not let them have any role other then to answer back pros and cons that they can think of to specifics questions presented to them. If done right you don't even have to have the consult team together in the same room or heck no one even has to know who is on the team, just simply reach out to the many pvp vets that often offer advice to changes with reasons why... There are a lot of people who simply just say this change suxs its bad and that's it well its obvious they would be useless in a position to give any real feed back but there are quite a few people even with extreme ideas at times but non the less there are plenty who would simply give you the best feed back they could to any direct questions you might have. 

 

Use what you have it never hurts to try.

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+1

 

Having this closed down on PvP limits new players from asking help questions, may lead to the odd blunder if someone is hunting down new players, but for the most part I think it would help more.

 

I really don't understand why you have your CA's locked to some specific servers, even if it gets busy with the server loads we have its still not even close to what you would see in a help channel such as Eve online.

 

The key thing is getting those questions answered when someone ask's one, and the more that see it, the better the chance of getting a answer.

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18 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

I feel like that incredibly difficult role is created by the Wurm team rather then it being an impossible feat...

 

You don't have to put a pvp vet ON the team all you need is to put together a small consult group and not let them have any role other then to answer back pros and cons that they can think of to specifics questions presented to them. If done right you don't even have to have the consult team together in the same room or heck no one even has to know who is on the team, just simply reach out to the many pvp vets that often offer advice to changes with reasons why... There are a lot of people who simply just say this change suxs its bad and that's it well its obvious they would be useless in a position to give any real feed back but there are quite a few people even with extreme ideas at times but non the less there are plenty who would simply give you the best feed back they could to any direct questions you might have. 

 

Use what you have it never hurts to try.

that has nothing to do with CA's providing accurate PvP information, which is the subject of this suggestion.

 

again, the "council" thing has been tried many times before, each time failing because of accusations of bias and so on and so forth.

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44 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

again, the "council" thing has been tried many times before, each time failing because of accusations of bias and so on and so forth.

 

The last time it was tried unofficially by happychappie including redbaron johan, it had people like me, proph I think?  posteh, maybe two others, we pretty much agreed on all the same things but despite that Johan still said nope so we collectively gave up.  One example was removing cooldowns on enchants so people can regear faster, which ended up in the game much later anyway.  That said I didn't like the idea of a secret council then and still don't

 

CA help cross kingdom is kinda weird.  It was cross kingdom on Challenge and it was an absolute wreck, the worst part was everyone saying to let them chat because it's a cross kingdom chat, so for starters it would probably have to be more severely moderated than current.  Staff would have to be invisible in chat list like said, but only really needed on pvp servers.  Still weird, seems mostly a Chaos issue I think because of mostly PMKs, and I don't think hots/freedom has ca help enabled on chaos someone that plays there can confirm that but even if they did there's not many there really and much less staff

 

On Epic, I could support global ca help per kingdom no doubt.  There's no ca help on Elevation and most of MR epic's staff are on Elevation, don't know about JK/BL but they both have staff too.  With no names in list and no server tag when ca+ answer it should be fine, I don't care if it makes someone easier to see if I'm online, they could just pm check me anyway.  There's probably no need to enable global ca help from enemy home servers as you probably won't find brand new players seeking help on an enemy home server, or people willingly giving away information that alts can see, so it's just enabling it global on Elevation without cross kingdom

Edited by MrGARY

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38 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

that has nothing to do with CA's providing accurate PvP information, which is the subject of this suggestion.

 

again, the "council" thing has been tried many times before, each time failing because of accusations of bias and so on and so forth.

As for CA's not knowing the best answers to questions pvp vets can take care of it. For those vets who dont want to be bothered by the questions they can simply hide the channel and avoid it anyway. For those of us who do want to help and those of us who are actually currently working on attempting how to allow new players to once again have a choice like they once did to join any of the kingdoms we would be the ones answering the questions. Yes there are plenty of people who would not mind at all to help. 

 

For the council comment... That's because those many times its been tried like you mention each time a COUNCIL was created for it. Meaning people knew who was in it and who was not. You will never get that style to work because then there will always be "sides".

 

You are in the best position to pick a few names from the forums that often offer constructive responses with possible solutions and keep a private communication going with them. And simply ask them specific questions about things and you would get every answer you could possibly need. You will also get to see the various sides of the coin and you won't have any sides to deal with or bickering its just simply gathering some information. The reason why the forums posts don't work is because of the same problem as the council team has, which is people on other sides hate each other and they will always cry foul. Eleminate the BS and keep it to individual contact.  

 

I've got a few things I'm working on that could possibly help the new player situation for chaos. It can work on epic as well. If you truly want to know what I'm working on that could possibly be helped with some dev/yourself interaction feel free to reach out. 

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4 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

As for CA's not knowing the best answers to questions pvp vets can take care of it. For those vets who dont want to be bothered by the questions they can simply hide the channel and avoid it anyway. For those of us who do want to help and those of us who are actually currently working on attempting how to allow new players to once again have a choice like they once did to join any of the kingdoms we would be the ones answering the questions. Yes there are plenty of people who would not mind at all to help. 

 

For the council comment... That's because those many times its been tried like you mention each time a COUNCIL was created for it. Meaning people knew who was in it and who was not. You will never get that style to work because then there will always be "sides".

 

You are in the best position to pick a few names from the forums that often offer constructive responses with possible solutions and keep a private communication going with them. And simply ask them specific questions about things and you would get every answer you could possibly need. You will also get to see the various sides of the coin and you won't have any sides to deal with or bickering its just simply gathering some information. The reason why the forums posts don't work is because of the same problem as the council team has, which is people on other sides hate each other and they will always cry foul. Eleminate the BS and keep it to individual contact.  

 

I've got a few things I'm working on that could possibly help the new player situation for chaos. It can work on epic as well. If you truly want to know what I'm working on that could possibly be helped with some dev/yourself interaction feel free to reach out. 

 

As to the council part of this statement, and Retrogrades post.

 

 

I've been a part of two? councils now, and i was close friends with the majority of players on the first one.

 

I don't think any one of them closed because of bias actually, all i can remember about all three is unanimous agreement on most brought up features, they were told things like it wasn't possible or just flat out no and ignored, and after a few months of that, they just got fed up with being ignored (as in having nothing done or the polar opposite done) on every issue they agreed upon, so they stopped caring. I don't think there was any bias problems or accusations beyond a very minimal amount.

 

Basically the "why should i waste my time thinking conceptually and going out of my way to try and solve balance problems if it will just get ignored anyway?"

Edited by Propheteer

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Ah yes, the "PvP Council".. lol.

What a joke, the only thing that was put in from Johan, as far as I remember was no cool down on enchant spells.

 

Just went back and looked.. there as a discussion about Chief titles showing as Champion titles too, but that's it.  And something about pmk minimum founding numbers being reduced.  That's it tho.

 

Hey, I also have ideas to make people want one play on chaos, and it will work for epic also, maybe, but you can't know until you PM me.

Edited by Oreo

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all the information you can acquire from consulting with players is already on the forums. People literally give you all the knowledge you need to make the game better for free. Just open thine eyes. lol

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Well, already off the rails, so might as well...

 

Sure... when there's agreement. Granted a rare thing; though, it does occur.

 

Then there's the flame wars that erupt when one side claims something is fine, other side says its OP'ed. cougharcheryearlygold2cough

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+1 and trade channels too: pointless having a trade channel on chaos in your own kingdom.  

 

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