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LorraineJ

I need to know this about Fo heal

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14 hours ago, Zekezor said:

The heals are more than sufficent for you to stay alive. (assuming proper equipment is available and that there is atleast minimal organisation)

 

14 hours ago, Zekezor said:

Why should the most endgame content of PVE available need to be nerfed into the ground so even a toddler can complete it?

ADAPT AND LEARN.

 

9 hours ago, Propheteer said:

tl;dr - get good, encourage people to use the better options when it comes to combat mechanics until devs fix the shitty ones.

 

Agreed - Sadly some people never listen or get good, which means you have to "get rid" of them if you want to deal with the way the spells works (as well as having a buddy heal you)... been there, done that.

 

The game can still be managed in proper ways as long as people thinks properly. I'm afraid though a mob doesn't have the average intelligence of a toddler... Which is where the heal nerfs hurt the most (and where PvPers are way more efficient since they are able to listen to directive and fight as a group).

 

TL;DR: What is a good fix PvP wise is a bad nerf PvE wise due to different gameplay (or lack of).

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There's always a huge difference to how things are, and how things should have been, Unfortunately, at times tough decisions have to be made to change things from how they are to how they should have been. This often is for the better, improving systems and expanding on existing ones.

 

The problem is though, some things have come in as OP (in this case, healing) and unfortunately need to be brought into line. (I also place refreshing in the same basket, with many agreeing that's how refreshing should have worked in the first place, but are unwilling to see it change to do that.)

 

Adaption is necessary in all games, yes PvE players have benefited from healspam covering their mistakes, but now they need to learn to fight as a group cohesively. This isn't a nerf, or any reduction in fun.

 

The training wheels are off, learn to ride.

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Change to improve the game : Allow lib on PvE since there is no logical reason for lib to be PvP exclusive

Chance to improve the game : Remove ALL PvP item monopolies (kingdom specific carts, flags, HoTa statues etc) since there is no reason for PvP to be more advantageous than PvE

Change to improve the game : Rebalance archery to be better for mob hunting since archery has little to no use on PvE due to PvP nerfs

 

<Comment Redacted as it was a pretty childish reply to the post above>

 

Not seeing any of those changes are we?  I wonder why....

Edited by Etherdrifter
Redaction

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24 minutes ago, SeeD said:

There's always a huge difference to how things are, and how things should have been, Unfortunately, at times tough decisions have to be made to change things from how they are to how they should have been. This often is for the better, improving systems and expanding on existing ones.

 

The problem is though, some things have come in as OP (in this case, healing) and unfortunately need to be brought into line. (I also place refreshing in the same basket, with many agreeing that's how refreshing should have worked in the first place, but are unwilling to see it change to do that.)

 

Adaption is necessary in all games, yes PvE players have benefited from healspam covering their mistakes, but now they need to learn to fight as a group cohesively. This isn't a nerf, or any reduction in fun.

 

The training wheels are off, learn to ride.

 

Its obvious that PvP and PvE will have different styles and different needs.  And its not about training wheels, they are different games, as you will easily observe, most of the PvP crowd that participates in the forums are socially inept, to put it midly, and all the way to frontal lobotomy candidates in the more serious cases.  Telling the PvP crowd to "learn to play and solve your conflicts in a peaceful manner in-game" is as dumb as your training wheels analogy.

 

We cant both be pleased with the exact same game, there is no right way/wrong way.  A PvE oriented balance will eff up whats left of Chaos, (epic is already gone), and a PvP balance will affect the PvE side, wich is at present the backbone of the game.  Moreso, balancing the game to be only turbonerd friendly, will mean that a few of us will have a lot of fun for a while, but with no new people joining.   I know that PvP dont belive in newbies, its alt-spies, but in PvE the dynamic is different, we dont need to hunt and kill the new guys, we want to make the game hospitable for them to stay, so we can, in turn, keep enjoying the game. (rant over)

 

tl;dr - Split the code, make PvE hospitable, and let PvP people live their turbo-nerd extintion fantasy.

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40 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Change to improve the game : Allow lib on PvE since there is no logical reason for lib to be PvP exclusive

Chance to improve the game : Remove ALL PvP item monopolies (kingdom specific carts, flags, HoTa statues etc) since there is no reason for PvP to be more advantageous than PvE

Change to improve the game : Rebalance archery to be better for mob hunting since archery has little to no use on PvE due to PvP nerfs

 

Lets take those training wheels off the PvP community ^_^

 

Not seeing any of those changes are we?  I wonder why....

The first one, i don't know, hasnt ever had any opposition. I remember technical reasons being cited a long time ago.

The second one would require a lot of work to give everyone their own custom graphics, there is already no automated system you have to manually submit each feature and go over it with the art team and test it before its implementation. As for removing PvP item monopolies, i don't agree with that because simply removing a cool feature or copy pasting it is not filling the obvious void for an equally difficult and interesting feature/mechanic to exist on a PvE server.

Archery is complained about by just about everyone, nobody wanted the nerf, it was randomly slapped on and does nothing but add tedium to the game.

 

As for "training wheels" the condescending comment wasn't necessary, considering the majority of the PvP population are long time veterans who played long before the majority of your examples were implemented. People play PvP because its a fun, more goal-oriented, community oriented version of the same sandbox. Not because we can cast shittier spells and get to put up with nerfs that barely anyone asked for and even fewer understand.

 


Heres for you and the necessity to post stuff hardly relevant to the topic at hand just so you can hop aboard the local bandwagon and stick it to those gosh darnin PvPers.

 

Edited by Propheteer

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Does 'cure light', 'medium' 'serious' still require you to find the individual wound to cast? It's probably the most annoying thing to do in a pressured situation in pvp, and if you misclick the first time you have to do menu navigate again. The specific wound healing spells really need a quality of life change.. (again, if it hasn't been looked yet)

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2 minutes ago, MetalDragon said:

Does 'cure light', 'medium' 'serious' still require you to find the individual wound to cast? It's probably the most annoying thing to do in a pressured situation in pvp, and if you misclick the first time you have to do menu navigate again. The specific wound healing spells really need a quality of life change.. (again, if it hasn't been looked yet)

been proposed many times and ignored.

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1 hour ago, Zekezor said:

been proposed many times and ignored.

 

Which is quite surprising since its about the only thing that PvP and PvE priests are united on.

 

2 hours ago, Rathgar said:

tl;dr - Split the code, make PvE hospitable, and let PvP people live their turbo-nerd extintion fantasy.

 

Not even that much of a code split, just stick in an extra if here and there like the game already does for epic.

 

 

Overall this is just one more in a series of changes that has screwed everyone over who makes use of the mechanic.  In terms of PvP its made things better since it has shifted the PvP balance for the better and screwing over the mechanic users was done to fix something that was broken.  In terms of PvE its taken something away and offers no return benefit at all and simply worsens the experience for those the RNG forsakes.

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*ahem*

On 2016-08-16 at 9:30 PM, Zekezor said:

6) Spell resistance / AoE spells / Lesser healing spells

 

-Spell resistance-

Spell resistance would be on a 5 min timer and directly scale in strength based on the dmg/healing received up to a certain %. The resistance would give a reduction in the effect of the damage/healing received. Thus making spells less usefull, but still have some of their effect.

 

-AoE Spells-

AoE spells currently scale indefinetly in power based on the number of targets involved.

So to adress this a max limit in healing/dmg per spell would be introduced.

AoE spells (excludes active AoE field spells) would take into account the number of targets and divide it's output among all the targets.

Healing: Check spellpower to see the healing output. Gather affected targets for the spell. Confirm they got wounds and are friendly. if not exclude them. Divide healing output per target. Pick the largest wound of the target. if its larger than healing output available then do a partial heal, if not then fully heal and reiterate untill out of healing output or all wounds gone. (if the AoE heal allow multiple wounds healed)

Damage: Check spellpower to see the damage output. Gather affected targets for the spell. confirm they are hostile. If not exclude them. Divide dmg output per target (and cap it at a % dmg of the full dmg output). Apply Wound(s).

Hybrid (aka Scorn): Do a damage check where it checks for targets affected, If hostile entities are found then also do a heal check for an equal value.

 

-Lesser healing spells-

A problem with the lesser healing spells is that they got virtually no use in actual combat.

Mainly becouse there is no time to open someones inventory, look through all the wounds, find the best wound and then cast the spell on it.

Thus I suggest healing spells such as cure light to be able to target creatures directly and when doing so after a successfull cast it automatically picks the largest wound and heal as much as it can with its healing output.

Thus allowing lesser heals to be usable in actual combat.

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Small heals. So cumbersome.

 

The lof nerf wiuld have been appropriate on tera or something, but here, its basically the only use fo priest has for healing.

Looking thru a player for wounds is just stupid, in the current format.

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How come when PvP hates a change they hold the ultimate truth, but when PvE hates a change we're supposed to just suck it?  But I guess they ARE owed thanks for sending so many people to WU ^_^

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18 hours ago, JudusX said:

Try saying something positive for once, maybe apologize to lorrainej for calling her an incompetent player.

 

Thank you for the kindness. But notice that I don't give a rat's a_s about these comments because they are imbecile in nature. This is a SANDBOX. There is no specific way anyone should play. There are only rules in games when there is a competition at stake, and things have to be fair across the board. I'm not competing with anyone. The only thing the devs or anyone can hope for is if I find the game amusing enough to pay for it one more time. To say "learn to play the game" or "take off your training wheels" just makes me feel sad for the person saying it. To me that says the person gauges their self-worth in how they compare to others, and that's a recipe for unhappiness. And it can lead to impaired judgment, like when a person thinks "well I've been trading many more hours of my life pressing these buttons than you have, and I'm going to show you who's boss." And then they bully newbies or smaller crowds so hard and in such an unsportsmanlike manner that the other people quit the game in disgust. And then all that's left to do is complain how there's no one to play with.

 

I am giving feedback to people I presume are trying to run a business. Free feedback, they didn't have to hire a consulting firm to investigate why most of the workers in the company have to volunteer. I saw a comment in this thread about people taking an excuse not to play anymore. No one needs an excuse. What is being observed is the straw that broke the camel's back, and the person just finally said ok I'm done.

 

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On 10/25/2016 at 1:08 AM, Aeris said:

Is this a change that will make it less fun/impossible for less than top skilled players to participate in rifts/unique slayings...

 

Yes.

 

(edited so it wasn't an answer like I get at work - "Should I do this or this?" "Correct.")

 

Edited by LorraineJ

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8 hours ago, SeeD said:

The problem is though, some things have come in as OP (in this case, healing) and unfortunately need to be brought into line.

 

Seriously, why. Why did the priest I invested in have to be nerfed? How about making a priest where the healing abilities are chained to their channeling, and then the people who just love grinding so much can pick that priest and play that way?

 

 

8 hours ago, SeeD said:

Adaption is necessary in all games, yes PvE players have benefited from healspam covering their mistakes, but now they need to learn to fight as a group cohesively.

 

I have no desire to fight as a group. I don't have time for it, for one thing. So far the group fights I've been involved in have taken hours. It also appears that some fights are scheduled at certain times, which means my life would have to revolve around being in a game at a certain time. Also, group things are laggy. The game is laggy when I'm alone in one spot; when a mob of people come together, I crash a lot. Also I have not found the risk-to-reward ratio to be satisfying. Both times I went to a uniques event, the things spawned in my living room. The dragon killed me before I even realized it was in the house. The troll king killed a champ dog. Both of them did massive damage to my deed, which I fixed alone. People who were on my KoS list for griefing the area flocked back to freedom and whined to be taken off KoS so they could get loot. Then there were "rolls." I saw myself win at least one, but I got nothing. For all the death and needing to rebuild, I think I got some drops of blood or something. I'm just really not interested. If there were smaller more frequent mobs that you could discover and with a few friends decide to go kill it, and everyone got a reward, then it might be worth my time and interest. I don't get a kick out of a laggy event including people who've griefed players out of the game, risking my slowly-achieved skills to get a blood droplet.

 

This is a sandbox. I don't have to play how you or anyone else plays. That's the point of it.

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One very important thing for an MMO is to not negatively effect a players progression. If you must take away you must give something else back. Otherwise the drive to do better will always leave that bitter taste.

 

This has to be one of the few MMO's ive played where they make the more powerful more powerful and weaker even weaker. Normally in other mmo's you get enough complaints and those that have the best gear find themselves half naked on login because the devs felt they needed to level the playing field. Or you get the nerfed skill which normally would effect all players of the same class. But, since wurm does not have classes and is reliant on skill level, you see those most effected being the less powerful.

 

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3 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

I have no desire to fight as a group. I don't have time for it, for one thing.

Then why bother with LoF? Heal does a better job for solo play for 1/3rd less favor.

Edited by KyleBooze

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I, on the other hand, desire to heal in a fight group (ie uniques).

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2 minutes ago, Cecci said:

I, on the other hand, desire to heal in a fight group (ie uniques).

aren't uniques usually dead within a few minutes anyways?

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4 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

aren't uniques usually dead within a few minutes anyways?

 

Heh, that happens when you have 50+ peeps on the unique, which is totally not how they were designed (loot scarcity is the perfect example of that). With 15 to 30 people, it's a different matter and also way more rewarding for the efforts invested.

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12 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

Then why bother with LoF? Heal does a better job for solo play for 1/3rd less favor.

Because the examine menu is ###### stupid, why else? LoF lets you bypass that for a nominal favor fee, which ofc has a refuced return, now.

Edited by Makarus

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LoF is still superior for healing groups, however there is a notable increase in mundane heal load because of just how bad bad casts are.  Linking the lower limit to a player's channeling level would go some way towards a fix but really the point stands: this nerf was not needed and no-one on PvE wanted it.

 

Fullheal is now a bit too random to be useful since a bad cast is 40 favor down the toilet to cure a light wound.  Combined with the fact that it doesn't cure disease any more and...  Well I've only used it about 6 of times since the patch and 3 of those times was me trying to cure a disease on myself.  I'm not intending to use it again.

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22 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

Then why bother with LoF? Heal does a better job for solo play for 1/3rd less favor.

 

I haven't cast LoF. I don't know how nerfed that is now. I was talking about Heal straight up. And now it doesn't work. More dissatisfaction and more of my time wasted.

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2 hours ago, Mclovin said:

Adapt or be destroyed

 

It's more like adapt or play a new game and quit paying for 13 deeds. And you're right, it's what I need to do. I just think it's right to give feedback before the end; I prefer customers to do that myself.

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