Posted October 21, 2016 1 minute ago, SmackedDown said: What isn't clear is why change it at all? If epic has it at 1 hour and it works on epic then leave it alone. If Chaos is at 5mins and it works why change it? Epic and Chaos are not the same don't make them the same. They actually already are, the only difference really is what.. the skill gain (lol), uh the loot code, and .. depots.. oh yeah AND YOU CAN BECOME A GOD XD? You'd have an argument if they weren't already the same god damned thing, but they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, SmackedDown said: What isn't clear is why change it at all? If epic has it at 1 hour and it works on epic then leave it alone. If Chaos is at 5mins and it works why change it? Epic and Chaos are not the same don't make them the same. but.... Epci players came over to chaos so they need epic rules... cause they know what is the best for the game as they are the allmighty Illuminati. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Spoiler I do not envy the devs... Edited October 21, 2016 by Matholameu 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Oreo said: They actually already are, the only difference really is what.. the skill gain (lol), uh the loot code, and .. depots.. oh yeah AND YOU CAN BECOME A GOD XD? You'd have an argument if they weren't already the same god damned thing, but they are. and logout timer... and curve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Not LO timer any more tho :^, and skill gain was curve pretty much, but is that all you can think of? Edited October 21, 2016 by Oreo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: Sounds like you had 1 hour logout to add into your defense planning right from the start, if they dropped this on us tomorrow like they did with the no-karma teleport for 24hrs with zero notice how fast do you think you can build multiple 200 tile tunnels that are fully reinforced? Depends on the team you can pull together. Can do 100+ tiles a day with 2, maybe three people. However you are planning based on worse case scenario that change announced and no time to do anything about it. More likely is change announced and you ramp towards it. Even if no change is announced making better fortress defences/design can be a lot of fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, SmackedDown said: What isn't clear is why change it at all? If epic has it at 1 hour and it works on epic then leave it alone. If Chaos is at 5mins and it works why change it? Epic and Chaos are not the same don't make them the same. 1 minute ago, Wulfgarr said: had a long rant in here but... devs i give up, im done playing pvd not pvp. GG, devs and GM-s you won against a player by just changing the rules according your friends wanted... GG. I can agree that things might work on epic and things might work here. But honestly outside of there being a change to something we might be used to can it not be seen that a 5 min timer might actually be a bit to short? I wouldn't say we need a change like epic, and I think people need to stop comparing the 2 servers... But we really need to start stepping back a tiny bit and think what could be a reasonable change. The real argument here is what Jakerivers brings up which is if the timer is 1 hour and a deed is being breached there wont be any sense to even try to pvp. While the Epic guys keep talking about trying to create pvp, blowing up deeds without any defense attempts cannot be considered adding pvp. With all that said, how do you find an amount of time that gives benefit to both attacker and defender without being 1 sided? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 I wonder, sometimes, why I read the updates at all. Almost every time it turns into a pvp ###### fest. Look back through the last twenty updates and tell me I'm wrong. Holy crap, people!!! It is a frigging game for crying out loud!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said: The real argument here is what Jakerivers brings up which is if the timer is 1 hour and a deed is being breached there wont be any sense to even try to pvp. While the Epic guys keep talking about trying to create pvp, blowing up deeds without any defense attempts cannot be considered adding pvp. You cannot change the rules simply because a kingdom chooses not to defend their deeds. Defense of a deed is the defender's choice, and their decision is 100% based on numbers (which they did have in this case) and deed design and infrastructure (which they chose to neglect on most of the deeds they spammed sprawling all over the map. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 25 minutes ago, jkirkwood said: Almost every time it turns into a pvp ###### fest. Look back through the last twenty updates and tell me I'm wrong. Completely understand your point. From the PVP viewpoint I think that there are a lot of people who really, really, really enjoy Wurm PVP and for a variety of reasons they perceive that something they truly love is threatened to the point of extinction. Almost like they are addicted to it or something. When attempts to get people engaged in making commitments to fix what's broken lead to a lack of real information and in some cases regular and constant thread closures these same people turn to fighting their battle anywhere and everywhere they can, in every possible thread (they are fighters after all). So it leads to the most visible thread, the newsletters thread, being spammed constantly for the one piece of information that's missing from the news, when EXACTLY will the PVP fixes occur and what will those fixes be. The best way PVE players could assist is by helping to make the importance of fixing the PVP side of the game by simply saying, "Please fix PVP". Right now PVP is broken however a day will come when PVE can use the same kind of help. PVPers will be a good group of people to have standing beside you when/if that day arrives. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nappy said: The best way PVE players could assist is by helping to make the importance of fixing the PVP side of the game by simply saying, "Please fix PVP". Right now PVP is broken however a day will come when PVE can use the same kind of help. PVPers will be a good group of people to have standing beside you when/if that day arrives. Yes we will, we yell the loudest. xP lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, Retrograde said: Today marks the one year anniversary since the launch of Wurm Unlimited, and what a year it's been! Wurm Unlimited has brought many things to the game, giving players even greater control over their experience, and we've seen some pretty awesome things from it. It's also given us the opportunity to Identify where we need to improve, and we're making that a major focus in our future plans, both in PvE and PvP. We're keen to see where the next year takes Wurm Unlimited, and what people do with their servers. Good to read that the WO Devs are observing the improvements and creative ideas that server owners and mod creators are doing within WU. Hopefully some of these beneficial aspects will be adapted and imported into WO in some manner. I think there is a lot of unrealized potential in what little bro WU has to offer. One year of it already has passed, very cool. Servers there have come and gone while the best run and managed ones have prospered. Those I think would be the ones for both WU players and WO Devs to look to for some enjoyable gameplay and potential answers. =Ayes= Edited October 21, 2016 by Ayes spellinks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, BeardedMan said: Nappy for Dev! pls no, we need Deso! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 24 minutes ago, Badget said: pls no, we need Deso! Target launch date for Desolation 4 "Evolution" is October 28th. It will be a Wurm like you haven't seen before. It obviously has plenty of it's Wurm heritage however it has a different feel at different times so it will be interesting to introduce it. Some people will love it. Some will likely hate it. If you want to see something different, likely worth the try (and it's only the starting point). An information post should be up on the forums sometime this weekend. Anyone know when the recent WO PVP updates are coming to WU? They are the last major dependency for launch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 They didn't set anything in stone they opened it for debate if you have concerns write out a well though out argument on why you think that change would be for the worse rather than the better, if you agree with it say the opposite but just trying to defer the discussion with comments like "omg there trying to bring epic to chaos doom" which helps no one. Wurm pvp even with a lot of epic people moved to chaos is at record lows if we keep dismissing any changes without any real discussion on a good middle ground on things we will never move forward To me personally it seem a little silly in a full loot open world pvp game like wurm logging out in enemy presence, even 3 tiles away from you takes 5 mins when it takes ~30 mins for a decent size group to bash a decent metal minedoor people would be hiding in let alone catapulting into buildings, digging dirt walls down or making entrances into them, even trying to just make a mine and tunnel into an unreenforced mine system takes longer than the logout timer most times. You can simply take anything worth anything to you that can be place in an inventory and log off in a mine or a house really to be honest before the enemy has a chance to engage you. I think it should honestly go further, on epic you only get the timer when on deed I think no matter where you are if you have enemy's around you, there should be a longer logout timer now is 1 hour the best? I don't know that would be a good topic to debate but just dismissing it for petty reasons is not going to get wurm pvp back on track. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 Nappy you can build all the pvp servers you want, as long as you have the same toxic environment your players create you will just end up shutting them down over and over. This turned into a pvp discussion as its the first time the dev's mention changing the rules once again. The last rule change that happened occurred with zero notice. You can not instantly change the rules without seriously affecting game play and planning and building that is spread out over years under a different gaming environment. MR empire was no more spread out than the JK kingdom not to long ago, what prevented them from hanging onto those deeds last year under the old rules with insta karma port? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 26 minutes ago, JakeRivers said: MR empire was no more spread out than the JK kingdom not to long ago, what prevented them from hanging onto those deeds last year under the old rules with insta karma port? Jake if you want to sling mud buddy, there's a skirmishes thread for that. New players can see this post so you really should take it to the Chaos forums where it belongs. But, you know the answer to that question. You couldn't hang on to those deeds because you walked away, plain and simple. And my point is that no rules should change (and this applies for the difficulty of skills or anything else related to PvE) because people suddenly think it's too hard when nothing changed but their attitude. Now, enough with the KvK ######, kthx. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, jkirkwood said: I wonder, sometimes, why I read the updates at all. Almost every time it turns into a pvp ###### fest. Look back through the last twenty updates and tell me I'm wrong. Holy crap, people!!! It is a frigging game for crying out loud!!!! The problem is some people, play this game to much. Some of the complaints are warranted though, but I do think right now pvp issues need to be addressed but if it turns into a cesspool, it needs to be more strictly moderated. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Retrograde said: Feature or bug? A question was raised regarding logout timers on Chaos being 5 minutes within enemy presence, and whether it was intended to be so, or 1 hour like on Epic. The answer is, well, a bit of both! While it's not a bug per se, we will look at the logout timers and make them the same across both clusters when in enemy presence. if epic people want it to be changed, go ahead. chaos people dont. so leave ur hands off this. if you turn it into anything longer than 7.5mins also include an emergency logout button that will allow you to leave world in less than 2 minutes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 +1 to the longer logout timer. The shortness of Chaos' timer right now is silly when trying to break into a deed and the player can just log out really safely with all their loot. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, Arium said: if epic people want it to be changed, go ahead. chaos people dont. so leave ur hands off this. if you turn it into anything longer than 7.5mins also include an emergency logout button that will allow you to leave world in less than 2 minutes. ... because that makes PVP. If you want to be able to disappear the moment the fight starts... why play PVP at all? Sounds like a lot of people just want player vs buildings... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Niki said: The problem is some people, play this game to much. Some of the complaints are warranted though, but I do think right now pvp issues need to be addressed but if it turns into a cesspool, it needs to be more strictly moderated. More like: Tons of promises were made and barely any fullfilled. Resulting in lots of angry people asking where the changes are. As an example, remember battering rams that were mentioned eons ago? Yea they just poffed into thin air. We were promised a big pvp focus, then we were told the big cooking patch that had been worked on for a year or w/e would be implemented prior to the pvp stuff being in focus. THEN we get presented with a future roadmap and there is 0 mentions of pvp. Ofcourse we get pissed. We were promised a pvp focus in the early part of the year. its nearly november... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, JakeRivers said: Nappy you can build all the pvp servers you want, as long as you have the same toxic environment your players create you will just end up shutting them down over and over. This turned into a pvp discussion as its the first time the dev's mention changing the rules once again. The last rule change that happened occurred with zero notice. You can not instantly change the rules without seriously affecting game play and planning and building that is spread out over years under a different gaming environment. MR empire was no more spread out than the JK kingdom not to long ago, what prevented them from hanging onto those deeds last year under the old rules with insta karma port? Each Desolation server has led to much better understanding of some of the issues preventing PVP growth in wurm. Desolation V2 - Server too large, conversion balance issues, concerns about staff bias, only two kingdoms Desolation V3 - Map design (worked, could have been much better), exploits, perception of exploits, anti-cheat, kingdom balance, spy alts Desolation V4 - Hopefully will focus on what it takes to start rebuilding and enlarging the community As far are rule changes, that's part of the joy of being in an environment where people are empowered to make the rules that they think best support their players. Every server, WU or WO, has this. In your case you are upset that you have to run bigger risks in PVP by facing a 60 minute time-out instead of a 5 minute one. For me, in WO, my problem is paying for a 50s trader, leaving it for a community to use and having it stolen/removed from community access by you, with no support recourse to turn to. What you did is legal, it's the rules of the server, doesn't mean I have to play there now does it? In WU people get to make their own servers and learn from mistakes, how people act etc. Eventually they set their own rules on how things would go. One problem the WO devs have is to fix the game and to make it evolve they have to pick a direction and take the game that way even though many people may disagree with their choices (and I sometimes disagree with them too). The potential change to a 60 minute timeout, with careful consideration, could lead to a much richer and immersive PVP experience for all players on Chaos. Of course it requires thinking beyond how things are done today and instead thinking about how they could be done tomorrow. Consider the ideas I shared with you earlier about making tunnels, designing better deeds, foiling attackers etc. Despite my issue with your trader antics the advice I gave was real and good spirited with the hope it would lead to a better game for you. When I used those techniques against Rome on Epic by stealing loot they carelessly left behind near their boats, it was a hoot. Reinforcing a deed from below was also fun too when they went searching for us. I only wish that I had had sufficient lock picking to steal their knarr and thereby trapping their entire invasion force on the island. That's my only regret of something I didn't accomplish on Epic. If you think the potential 60 minute timeout rule is a drastic change, you wouldn't want to see what I would do if given carte-blanche to fix the PVP situation on both Chaos and Epic in the way that I think would lead to success. With all the Desolations and a few other servers a lot of thought has gone into just that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
