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Greyfox

Marketing plan timeline

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10 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

I like it when the customer feels entitled to know the direction the company is going. Makes me chuckle.

 

There is a difference between customers and shareholders that people seem to miss out on. Customers misunderstand this, and sometimes act like if they are shareholders. Customers make purchases of a product or service for their personal/business use. Shareholders pay not for a product, but for the right of a partnership in a company. They get nothing other than the right to be in said company's business.

 

What this company does is their business unless we are willing to become a shareholder, if that is even an option. Sure, we have a right to complain about the quality of their product/service, but your only vote is your wallet. We can always choose to not spend our money and move elsewhere if we don't like the direction the company is heading, and if they do poorly, people will continue to vote with their wallets. Look at the Epic servers if you need an example.

 

Make suggestions, not demands. We are not entitled to them, and the fact that Retrograde even entertains the idea to give us an update is a blessing, not a right. This game has a very open development team and staff. GMs are people who play among us, and enjoy the game as much as we do. 

 

Thank you for the update, Retrograde, we appreciate it.


 

Actually when a company is loosing customers as fast as Wurm is, most companies will do everything they can to reassure the few customers they have left that the company will pull through.  Those that refuse to address customer concerns usually go under. 

 



 

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Greyfox, in all your raging did you take the time to notice that the number of premium players has increased in the last month?

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26 minutes ago, Chakron said:

Greyfox, in all your raging did you take the time to notice that the number of premium players has increased in the last month?

 

Nonsense, that's clearly just propaganda put out by the marketing team. 

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15 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

This is not your typical local business and we as players put in time as an investment at times. With the shat customer service this game has for a while now and the BS responses about yea we have a plan but we wont tell anyone is simply BS. So as customers who are concerned we would like to know that something is being done something is really planned a few hints at it is not telling us in detail what they have planned but at least that there will be something. People like you are a problem and thus one the reasons why the when team is as unprofessional as they come. As my post here shedding truth will end up being deleted as this thread. But soon enough posts will start appearing on forums that when mods have no powers to so I wonder how they are going to deal with all the bad light shed then. 

 

Again to sum this up although players might be asking for a marketing plan doesnt mean the team has to give every detail just a simple yea we will be doing something and a few hints at it. Its just the same sorry for years with this team.

 

Rant over ill go about my business a little bit longer. 

Not really, we are simply consuming a service(entertainment), which Code Club provides. The fact, that you pay for their product, doesn't make you a shareholder and/or a participant in their business processes. Period.

 

EDIT: And  this topic is one reason, why most gaming companies give out as little information as possible. Not because they hate us gamers/customers.. but things change, internal plans might change, something unexpected might occur etc.. if you make something public, this will be taken as a promise. Like here, staff gave in and released a bit of information about marketing plans and now it is "where are the ads you promised".

Edited by rixk

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18 minutes ago, Zazz said:

Why cant someone ban Greyfox already?

U know asking for a ban is not allowed either right?

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11 hours ago, Chakron said:

Greyfox, in all your raging did you take the time to notice that the number of premium players has increased in the last month?

That is literally just the alts we bought to found GRATSALOT.

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.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
removed

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On 1/30/2017 at 9:30 AM, Zazz said:

Why cant someone ban Greyfox already?

because Greyfox hasn't done anything wrong?  Sure, the gent is critical.  He's not insulting though, at least not relative to some others.  He's not threatening anyone.  He's not seeking to ruin anyone else's gaming experience.

 

He's clearly not happy with how the game has been managed as of late.  That's his prerogative.  I haven't checked recently, but I don't think there is a forum rule decreeing "Thou shall never be critical."  I'd find it ridiculous if there was such a rule.

 

I'm sure the people at Code Club are big boys and girls.  They can handle some derision just fine.

 

On 1/30/2017 at 0:45 PM, Brash_Endeavors said:
Spoiler

content removed by author, so doing the same.

 

 

 

 

Ok, so he's consistent ;)  There's nothing wrong with posting a negative review, so long as it's an honest review, imho.

 

I may disagree with Greyfox on this being a wonderful time to go out and advertise, but there's a general trend towards vitriol when someone says something unpopular on these (and most) forums.

I think we all have enough backbone to buck up and deal with it a bit better than vilification.  Write a review on Steam disagreeing with his assessment of the situation if you disagree with him.  That usually works to negate a negative review for me, when someone directly addresses the negative in their own positive review.

 

I'm not even sure if this is really about advertisement, or just Greyfox not liking how the Public Relations Coordinator coordinates relations with the public.

Edited by Reylaark
Removed Spoiler comment.
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..

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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On 30/01/2017 at 7:16 AM, Chakron said:

Greyfox, in all your raging did you take the time to notice that the number of premium players has increased in the last month?

 

And is plummeting back down again.

 

Updates aimed towards getting a boost of premium hits for a month or two =/= updates aimed towards retaining customers.

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1 hour ago, Redd said:

 

And is plummeting back down again.

 

Updates aimed towards getting a boost of premium hits for a month or two =/= updates aimed towards retaining customers.

 

 

Also you can remember it was just Christmas everyone prems Toons to get gifts.

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Once again, I find myself eternally grateful that I'm not a PR person for Wurm.  Being stuck as the interface between the team and the consumers is just so lose-lose.  I only hope the team are a lot more supportive than the players generally are.

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2 hours ago, Wonka said:

Once again, I find myself eternally grateful that I'm not a PR person for Wurm.  Being stuck as the interface between the team and the consumers is just so lose-lose.  I only hope the team are a lot more supportive than the players generally are.

 

I been Dev for past approximately 20 years and me among my colleagues have allways treated our water wheels very well. By "Water wheel" I mean all the sales people, marketing people, human resources people, service desk people, ...and all the rest of the people who stand between me and "customers"/other distractions.

 

I've been trough three different companies of varying sizes so I've been member of varying team sizes. No matter how small or big the team is, the contribution of "water wheel" has never gone unnoticed for me.

 

Currently we often talk about this among colleagues. Sometimes in team meetings we want to voice our respect and gratitude to other departments allowing us to focus on the work we are supposed to be doing. Especially thanking the service desk a lot these days when we see the chaos of service contacts scratching the roof of "hundred per person per day" where only a tiny fraction is requiring development team help.

 

This respect and gratitude towards the water wheels, among the developers has been so universal and so consistent that I am taking it as a fact. So I am confident in that Wurm developers also value their PR person for Wurm very highly. Not only respect and gratitude but all the needed support, even if its badmouthing stupid players in the coffee break or offer a comfortable shoulder.

 

The "entity of customers" as an abstraction is very naive and self-centered demanding 3-year old dark monster that we as individual customers acting within this umbrella hardly realize what we are doing. This is the black dot in white paper everyone stare at. Apart from 95% of customers being satisfied, it is the unsatisfied 5% that echo loudly trough and makes for example service desk people look weary, their shoulders heavy and sighs deep. And I know they carry the burden just so I can focus on my job. So least I can do is be the one listening when they unload some of that negativity...  So, even if we are organized in separate departments, when we work together with other teams or other departments, we are all on the same side.

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I honestly believe that heavy advertising would be detrimental in the long run.  The vast majority of gamers today can't stand the kind of game play you get from Wurm Online and Unlimited.  They want instant gratification, not years long commitment, and they are quick to post scathingly negative reviews.  Too many negative reviews might actually turn away those few gamers that haven't yet tried the game but might enjoy it.

 

The best way to attract new players to Wurm is word of mouth, in my opinion.

 

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11 minutes ago, Ricowan said:

I honestly believe that heavy advertising would be detrimental in the long run.  The vast majority of gamers today can't stand the kind of game play you get from Wurm Online and Unlimited.  They want instant gratification, not years long commitment, and they are quick to post scathingly negative reviews.  Too many negative reviews might actually turn away those few gamers that haven't yet tried the game but might enjoy it.

 

The best way to attract new players to Wurm is word of mouth, in my opinion.

 

You can't decide to not take a step forward because it might go wrong. Negative reviews are not going to stop current players from playing: "Man, what the hell... This game which I been playing for three years got a bad rating. It must be a bad game. I should quit!" Sure bad reviews might scare off players but they have to try the game first before they can write a bad review.

 

Wurm Online/Unlimited have no competition. There is no game like this one, so the players who like this genere can't really go elsewhere. However, very few people know about Wurm. I just found out about it a couple months ago, and only after a friend telling me about it for over a year. There is no harm in advertisement. You can't completely depend on a dwindling player base to spread the word. 

 

 

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As a new player, an outsider to all this drama that has turned into resentment it seems.  (Yes I don't have the years of gaming [customer] experience in this game you all refer to ) but after reading forums like these.... Why would I as a developer or part of the team making decisions, want to spent money to advertise so they see how crappy the players I mean customers treat their preferred place of business?

 

All these forums where people berate each other, cause more drama, make moderators extort answers to calm the storm seems wasted money if the majority of it was to bring more people here who like outsiders such as myself find people like the OP and their cronies.

 

Not here as a troll, I'm here to say this is more of an issue than any marketing strategy could ever do to help.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

As a new player, an outsider to all this drama that has turned into resentment it seems.  (Yes I don't have the years of gaming [customer] experience in this game you all refer to ) but after reading forums like these.... Why would I as a developer or part of the team making decisions, want to spent money to advertise so they see how crappy the players I mean customers treat their preferred place of business?

 

All these forums where people berate each other, cause more drama, make moderators extort answers to calm the storm seems wasted money if the majority of it was to bring more people here who like outsiders such as myself find people like the OP and their cronies.

 

Not here as a troll, I'm here to say this is more of an issue than any marketing strategy could ever do to help.

 

 

 

Give this man a medal. I couldn't have said it better.

 

If I don't like the quality of shoes Foot Locker™ sells, I don't go to the employee standing on the register to berate her how ###### and expensive the shoes are. I don't even bother going to the general manager of the store, let alone the manufacturing company. I simply go to a different store.

 

I love Wurm and it's developers for a damn good made that fills a niche I enjoy. Do I wish they had more people? Sure. But I am also a realist. Wurm has an average player base of approximately 300-800 people logged in at any given time (rough estimates) in comparison to other major mmo's who have several servers with numbers well in the thousands. Marketing is expensive, very expensive, and it's a Russian roulette in the sense that you can piss money like a garden hose and not get anything in return. Developers have things to spend their money on already, such as ... Developing content, for example?

 

Advertisement is necessary, yes, and in time it will be done In sure, but we have no right to hound the staff over something that ultimately is not our concern.

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5 hours ago, Brew said:

As a new player, an outsider to all this drama that has turned into resentment it seems.  (Yes I don't have the years of gaming [customer] experience in this game you all refer to ) but after reading forums like these.... Why would I as a developer or part of the team making decisions, want to spent money to advertise so they see how crappy the players I mean customers treat their preferred place of business?

 

All these forums where people berate each other, cause more drama, make moderators extort answers to calm the storm seems wasted money if the majority of it was to bring more people here who like outsiders such as myself find people like the OP and their cronies.

 

Not here as a troll, I'm here to say this is more of an issue than any marketing strategy could ever do to help.

 

 

 

That is generally what video game forums are. There is a vocal minority on social media while the rest just play the game. This is a useful place for reporting bugs and creating some fun content, but it's mostly nonsense and I would take it all with a grain of salt. It's a mistake to take a look at the biggest Town Square post and think that's what everyone cares about.

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10 hours ago, Angelklaine said:

Why would I as a developer or part of the team making decisions, want to spent money to advertise so they see how crappy the players I mean customers treat their preferred place of business?

 

 

Mostly just shitty decisions are treated crappy.

 

6 hours ago, Chakron said:

There is a vocal minority on social media while the rest just play the game.

 

You're not wrong, but my friendlist mostly consists of that silent majority. And most of it is red for many months already. They just play the game... and then they just leave the game without posting anything.

Edited by zigozag
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3 hours ago, zigozag said:

Mostly just shitty decisions are treated crappy.

 

Or decisions which are good for the game, but a particular vocal minority don't like.  Or when someone's happy little monopoly in the market gets overturned by a change.  Or (it seems) when someone needs a reason why their poor behaviour couldn't be their fault, but must be biased mods, or bad developers, or no marketing, etc.  Wurm seems to attract a particularly dedicated band of obsessives, which means when the feedback is bad, it's obsessively bad, sometimes to excess.

 

It's sometimes easy to forget that the team consists of more than just the devs (who possibly have the most direct influence on the game) and the PR bunnies (who are the most visible staff members).  I guess PR works both ways, so I'm sure Retro and co are pushing our suggestions back to the various parts of the staff group.

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On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, Reylaark said:

I'm not even sure if this is really about advertisement, or just Greyfox not liking how the Public Relations Coordinator coordinates relations with the public.


It is about advertising.  This is not the first thread I've created on the issue and not the first I've supported.   Retro deleting those past threads on this issue rather then answer them didn't help.  It was very poor customer relations.   Leaves a bad taste when the PR guy simply does the internet version of a hang up.   It reduces customer confidence in the product.   
You might actually be partially right.   If Retro hadn't deleted all those threads asking about advertisement in the past I might not be pushing the point so hard right now.   But either way I'd pushing the issue.   Wurms dying and the dev plan seems to be "Well we need to do X and Y before we can do anything else"   and it's always another X and Y and numbers keep dropping.     If you wait until Wurm is perfect before you advertise, you'll never advertise Wurm.   Not unless you know how to sell a sunken boat.

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Greyfox, how is it that you're alone in hating Retrograde? What makes you right and the entire rest of the world wrong?

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On 1/30/2017 at 0:02 AM, Greyfox said:


 

Actually when a company is loosing customers as fast as Wurm is, most companies will do everything they can to reassure the few customers they have left that the company will pull through.  Those that refuse to address customer concerns usually go under. 

 

 



 

 

You have been reassured, at least once. If that is what you are asking for. It has been done. Your posts come across as if you are entitled to something more. Which really none of us are. We pay for a service that is it. Several people on the team have assured us that it is not going anywhere. 

 

I do agree more advertising would be nice. But CC AB needs to target the correct people who will end up as long term players. Not just any Tom / Richard or Harry who won't invest the time or money required to get good in this game. 

Edited by Saicotic
toned down the jerk.

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