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Patch Notes 13/OCT/16

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why are people saying that you have to hunt for skill gain now? You can still pen train, you just gotta swap the animals out.

 

people were already doing this, because stance skill caps out at 15mins/3hours on each animal

Edited by JukimoV2

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To me it seems harsh to new people to have to grind this by hunting or having a massive herd of horses just to get 1 skill up.

i did alot of weaponsskilling and grinded up 4 or 5 weapons to 90+. I used a 103 coc large wooden shield during all those weapons and ofc SB to get as much as possible. I am now at almost 78 Large wooden shield...and thats alot of hours and sleep bonus put into that by hunting.
Also probably 10-20 points on that shield is by "afk" fighting a horse on deed..


Had to post this since my first post got removed...

Edited by Meep

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29 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Or you could do it in the wild, and move from creature to creature, like you need to do with other combat skills

 

lol that is a joke. Retro go out and try it. And pls do it on a PVP server! After that we can talk again.

Its unpossible to get good skill that way. Try it to get 90 Shield skill!

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not sarcastic, I changed the patch note to remove the term macro, I am sorry if it offended anyone.

 

I get this is a change that may be hard to get used to, and we may look at how shield skill works in the future, but for this point it ties in with other game-play that was deemed exploitative and addressed.

 

I will of course be giving your feedback to the dev team, but my job here is also to communicate their side of things, which I have been doing.

 

Sitting in a pen and training for hours on the same creature is unintended play, much for the same reasons bred creatures no longer give skills.

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28 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Or you could do it in the wild, and move from creature to creature, like you need to do with other combat skills

 

Zekezor already eloquently pointed out the problem with this. You cannot train shield skill and other combat skills efficiently at the same time. The nature of shield skill means it's best to deliberately disadvantage yourself against an opponent, while main fighting and weapon skills you need to have as many advantages as you can for efficient skilling.

 

If you changed shield skilling to be similar to the way weapon skills are trained no one would even want to sit on one horse forever, because you could find synergy with every other combat skill. Why would you hit a horse for an hour for 1.0 skill in a shield when you could go hunting and get 1.0 in a shield, a weapon and a stance at the same time. The way the system works right now does not allow this.

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38 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Or you could do it in the wild, and move from creature to creature, like you need to do with other combat skills

 

Not viable. Try doing it yourself and tell me how much shield skill you gain past 70 or 80 skill within a few hours of nonstop hunting, which is near impossible to do on any server. From getting to 96 fighting skill and a multitude of 90+ in weaponskills off of hunting animals, I still only have one single shield at 90 skill, and that was gotten in my first two years of play on a pig when "macroing" was simple.

 

You are indeed correct that it was broken and needed to be fixed. Shield skill needs to be boosted to gain faster, not nerfed to be even more impossible to gain.

 

Kind regards,

someone who actually hunts animals for skill

Edited by Alyeska

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1 minute ago, Czar said:

 

Zekezor already eloquently pointed out the problem with this.

haha... yea that would be true if the post wasnt removed.

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Don't worry, the devs see the removed posts too.

 

My job is to ensure they get all feedback, good and bad

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the change isn't bad in itself quite the opposite it would force people to go out and hunt and potentially run into some pvp, especially if skillgain was even more limited to each individual animal, but shield skill is pretty much the first skill you get as a pvper so everyone already has decent shieldskill, pretty much the only thing that will be changed from this is towards newplebs

 

 

 

 

Edited by changer

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it definitely feels that boosting shield skill might be a wise option, but may need further consideration, I'll certainly raise the idea with the dev team though.

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I'd like to see shield skill gain rebalanced so creatures which pose a greater threat give you more skill. A pig/horse which deals nearly no damage to you then wouldn't give any skill, while a troll would give a lot of skill for each blocked hit. Then make hunting the best way to gain shield skill. The threat based skill gain makes it more risk vs reward and doesn't encourage weird gameplay like the current system does.

Edited by Ecrir

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15 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Sitting in a pen and training for hours on the same creature is unintended play, much for the same reasons bred creatures no longer give skills.

 

But why?

Wurm's been that way for years and it's been fine. You cant change it 10 years into the game where everyones used it to grind for that entire time, where the playerbase has very high shiedskill already. You need to make that change at the beginning when everyones starting off with 0 skill, on the same level.

Because now all the newer players who come over to PvP servers with no shieldskill are going to be told sorry, you're gonna have to grind for atleast a year now because its been changed and you're useless in pvp before that.

 

Also, why is pen training viewed so badly? Like, why do the opinions of the devs disagree with it? If you wanted to look at it in a 'role play' sense. It's like a guy slapping his pet horse on the backside and agrivating it so it kicks him and he learns how to block with a shield

 

If you'd rather people hunt to grind skills, make hunting give better skills so that pen training is seen as the most unefficient way to do it anymore and everyone will stop pen training and start hunting. I know that sounds too simple to be true, but it will work i've seen it happen in other games and it worked fantastc.

Edited by Madt
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37 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

this was fixing the broken mechanics

no, sorry, fixing the broken mechanism would means making it impossible to fight a creature through a wall without taking the afore mentioned damages. Not preventing anyone from training against one creature for as long as they have stamina and a shield in proper shape.

 

7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

it definitely feels that boosting shield skill might be a wise option, but may need further consideration, I'll certainly raise the idea with the dev team though.

 

Well, along with some good ideas, why not make spars give weapon and shield skill... the wurm equivalent of your good ol' training drill...

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18 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

this was fixing the broken mechanics

 

It's still possible to grind shields on the same mob for hours so what exactly have you "fixed"?

 

A particular method used for grinding shields that doesn't even get mentioned, still works. Yet you nerf the more commonly used method adopted by everyone to grind shields.. Seems stupid to me.

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6 minutes ago, BeardedMan said:

 

It's still possible to grind shields on the same mob for hours so what exactly have you "fixed"?

 

A particular method used for grinding shields that doesn't even get mentioned, still works. Yet you nerf the more commonly used method adopted by everyone to grind shields.. Seems stupid to me.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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7 minutes ago, Odynn said:

Well, along with some good ideas, why not make spars give weapon and shield skill... the wurm equivalent of your good ol' training drill...

A very interesting idea! Would have to include a cooldown though, time to let the lessons sink in.

 

7 minutes ago, BeardedMan said:

 

It's still possible to grind shields on the same mob for hours so what exactly have you "fixed"?

 

A particular method used for grinding shields that doesn't even get mentioned, still works. Yet you nerf the more commonly used method adopted by everyone to grind shields.. Seems stupid to me.

If a method bypasses that then as per the WSA it may lead to bans.

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10 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

it definitely feels that boosting shield skill might be a wise option

Nayy, ask for synergy with regular combat, boosting it alone won't solve the problem. While I don't know what the timer is for the skill "lockout" yet. I suspect it is still more efficient, even after this change, to use horses on rotation rather than go out in the wild.

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Just now, Czar said:

Nayy, ask for synergy with regular combat, boosting it alone won't solve the problem. While I don't know what the timer is for the skill "lockout" yet. I suspect it is still more efficient, even after this change, to use horses on rotation rather than go out in the wild.

Which is why a direct boost may be an issue, unless it's tied to CR or such of the creature you are fighting vs your shield skill, meaning once you are high, babe just isnt going to give you much skill, but that hulking troll might

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2 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

If a method bypasses that then as per the WSA it may lead to bans.

 

From the wording of WSA I think its not bannable.

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Just now, Badget said:

 

From the wording of WSA I think its not bannable.

I've asked Enki for clarification, if it does, he will update the WSA. So please be careful.

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Bahh.. I started off typing something bad and erased it because I know it would not have gotten anything needed across to the Wurm team thinking this might have been a good change. 

 

So here I am going to convey how much more this hurts vs helps. Its completely understandable to want to try and address the bigger issue with shield training which is the afk portion of it that I'm sure has been taken advantage of by some players but honestly for the vast majority of players that have/are doing it fully attended while perhaps watching a movie what real harm is there to the game? All these changes recently made in order to help promote for new players ability to get into the game a bit faster and then a change like this is made makes little sense.

 

Here is an example of why making changes to things like this is NOT needed and fixing actual broken parts of the game is more important... We have a new player brand new to Wurm started about 6 weeks ago. For about 3 weeks of that time on the front end he started off by training some shield during the time he had to play. About a week to week and half spent hunting for FS afterward and the rest of the time building himself a house and helping with miscellaneous other things for random gains. Moral of this story is he is a new player that within a somewhat short period of time felt himself to be half viable even with low skills in a pvp encounter... But I will tell you what it did not do for him...

 

He only has about mid 70's LMS skill and 50's weapon and 50's FS and like 22 str. But in a pvp situation he was able to actually block a hit or 2 and dance a little with his tiny damage hits when he could hit against the rest of the super toons that come pvp agasint us. It allowed him to actually have some fun until he realized what that skill doesn't make up for... 2 hit death.

 

Moral of my story is stop messing with things that aren't game breaking. Add in macro afking checks sure this way no one can do it while sleeping... But leave the rest of how it works intact so attending skilling can still be done. 

 

 

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Why would you leave in game mechanic you claim bannable and dont make so it does not work anymore if you feel its broken?

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I feel like im talking to a brick wall here, but why is dev time spent on changes which clearly annoy players, and not spent on productive changes/additions of which there are multiple?

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Rocky said:

 

lol that is a joke. Retro go out and try it. And pls do it on a PVP server! After that we can talk again.

Its unpossible to get good skill that way. Try it to get 90 Shield skill!

 

Well it is possible, on a 100x skill gain WU server, to obtain all needed shield bashing, 90+ level with just hunting. Much more enjoyable too.

 

Sounds like an easy fix might be to just increase the amount of skill gained per bash as others have already stated in this thread.

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29 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Which is why a direct boost may be an issue, unless it's tied to CR or such of the creature you are fighting vs your shield skill, meaning once you are high, babe just isnt going to give you much skill, but that hulking troll might

 

Yeah it's a tricky situation that has been created, if this isn't to turn into a disastrous window of opportunity. A fix might be setting the skill-lock out to 24 hours so that horse rotation isn't feasible but impose a guaranteed tick rate of say 70% regardless of other factors. It would be slightly more annoying at lower skill levels but it would even out pretty quickly and it would synergise well with every other combat skill making high ql shields desirable for shield training the same way weapons are for weapon skill .

 

edit: I should point out I pulled that 70% number more or less out of my arse, But a fixed tick rate per block is one solution that will stop the ritual of horse abuse and see people hunting for shield skill. Also I believe parries supplant blocks, another issue that makes regular hunting less than ideal at the moment.

Edited by Czar

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