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sandokhan

Rarity system is just C-R-A-P

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On 10/8/2016 at 4:49 PM, Cornchips said:

unable to trade rares

what an amazing idea

 

Unsure if you're in favor or against... Your sarcasm lacks direction.

 

Anyhow, back on topic: The only way this idea would work is if the no-trade clause was something that was added intentionally by the user. Similar to Imbues.

 

I can only imagine the havoc of a no-trade clause occuring by RNG, particularly for people who do improvements or enchantments. It would also have to be something segregated entirely from Chaos and Epic.

 

Edited by Dairuka

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 0:18 PM, Kawdzo said:

I personally feel they should reduce the chance on rares when creating and increase the chance on imping. It would help level out the market.

 

As it stands i feel like the majority of the rares on the market are made by those few who just farm them by spamming new items. I am sure that was not the intention of the devs when implementing this system.

 

This has been my position on rares for some time and I have stated it in parts before. Indeed, most rares are created upon creating a new item and this system has been focused upon (exploited?) by those seeking to create rares mainly for the silver (+RL currency conversion) they can make from doing so. This fits right in with the concept of making money from playing the game and most likely is why the rare system has not been adjusted in any major way to reduce the rare upon creation advantage.

 

You can then imagine that those players who resort to this as a major interest in "playing" the game would not want to see it changed to their $$ detriment. Nikki had some interesting ideas on making them soulbound to the player. Not too popular of course because then other players couldn't sell them off or obtain them by pvp mechanics, unless they were excluded from this status on those types of servers. This as well goes against the policy of selling off stuff for profit, which is firmly ingrained within this game's concept.

 

As for the thought that rares should over time wear away or degrade in some advanced fashion in contrast to other tools, this favors the creators of them all the more since then it would create a continued demand to purchase new ones to replace the old. Typical of those who try to dream up ways to continue to make a profit (silvers/RL currency) from various aspects of the game. A reflection of the *built in obsolescence* some producers in the outside world attempt to introduce into their products.

 

In many ways Wurm is a true microcosm of the outside world, especially in terms of money making opportunities and those who not so subtly advocate for their own particular advantages. Never so true have I seen the adage "A fool and their money are soon parted." as within this game. Although there is no real escaping it at least the loss can be kept at a minimum by spending more wisely in a conservative way. Remember you the players are what create the market.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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1/9700 to make fantastic if you get a roll and don't damage the item, best code.

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2 hours ago, Ayes said:
Spoiler

This has been my position on rares for some time and I have stated it in parts before. Indeed, most rares are created upon creating a new item and this system has been focused upon (exploited?) by those seeking to create rares mainly for the silver (+RL currency conversion) they can make from doing so. This fits right in with the concept of making money from playing the game and most likely is why the rare system has not been adjusted in any major way to reduce the rare upon creation advantage.

 

You can then imagine that those players who resort to this as a major interest in "playing" the game would not want to see it changed to their $$ detriment. Nikki had some interesting ideas on making them soulbound to the player. Not too popular of course because then other players couldn't sell them off or obtain them by pvp mechanics, unless they were excluded from this status on those types of servers. This as well goes against the policy of selling off stuff for profit, which is firmly ingrained within this game's concept.

 

As for the thought that rares should over time wear away or degrade in some advanced fashion in contrast to other tools, this favors the creators of them all the more since then it would create a continued demand to purchase new ones to replace the old. Typical of those who try to dream up ways to continue to make a profit (silvers/RL currency) from various aspects of the game. A reflection of the *built in obsolescence* some producers in the outside world attempt to introduce into their products.

 

In many ways Wurm is a true microcosm of the outside world, especially in terms of money making opportunities and those who not so subtly advocate for their own particular advantages. Never so true have I seen the adage "A fool and their money are soon parted." as within this game. Although there is no real escaping it at least the loss can be kept at a minimum by spending more wisely in a conservative way. Remember you the players are what create the market.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

 

interesting random ideas:lol:, welcome to wurm, you seem new around

Edited by Finnn
quote instead of spoiler.. FacePalm

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24 minutes ago, Finnn said:

interesting random ideas:lol:, welcome to wurm, you seem new around

 

Thanks for the random welcome. Yea, I was just born yesterday, as they say and am susceptible to such meanderings. I am thin rather than a round one though. Not too thin really, just pleasantly un-plump.

 

=Ayes=

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43 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

1/9700 to make fantastic if you get a roll and don't damage the item, best code.

That's a roll*, you can still have a successful action and not stick the fantastic status to it.. I've had a roll on a supreme pick and didn't fail, nothing happened, same for rares..(best moment in your/my life... when you create something, get inspired.. do not fail the action.. and get a normal item made anyway:rolleyes:) if you have a roll it doesn't mean that you'll get the next rarity at 100%, it's a roll for the rarity and than a roll if will stick or not..(or the other way around, writing what I've read around, never checked the code myself); I've heard of people collecting rare tools.. to improve in hopes to make supremes out of them.. when they get inspired.. "sadly" system doesn't work like that, and if it was... we'd all roll on fantastics in few months after grinding over and over on the same items.. until they bleed in pink and have 50% crits...:mellow:

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1. The rarity system is fine. If you aren't able to make a rare that you like, then just craft in a way that can maximize your odds. The needed knowledge is publicly available. Asking for a reliable way to make rares however is just.. too much...

2. imping rolls have 20% chance of turning the item rare but only if the imping action is successful. Raising it would make the creation of rares way too cheap time-wise.

3. Soulbound items? Please no. I don't want to see old priests being sold together with their rare rope tool and be asked to pay 30-50s for the tool itself because someone used a window of opportunity. I would also hate to see the death of 2nd hand tools market even if I can profit from such a change.

4. If the problem for you is that people make money from rares or that they are too expensive or anything: Seriously dude. You don't NEED a rare item just as you don't NEED a drake set or a moonmetal weapon. I've been there for years and still use studded and a 5 year old maul most of the time despite being able to make high ql plate and fancier weapons.

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Just want to add that removing the 1 in 5 chance for improving would suffer the same "market" flood issue as the current creation favorable system. Alts can improve just as well as they can create. I'm not saying this is a bad idea or that I'm against it. Its just that as far as "market" is concerned it would likely just make things further drop in value because of supply.

 

I like the idea of making them considerably easier to make and couple that with a way for the rarity to go away. Say a fantastic is as hard as making 99 ql steel sword and assume the creator had to make all the materials and grind the skills. Some will probably say this is too easy. Again, like I said before, I'd prefer a system where it realistic for anyone to get it. As it is now it's not at all realistic for everyone to have a fantastic and most players won't even have a supreem. Allowing a small percentage of player to have all the cool toys is bad idea, (imo). 

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2 hours ago, joedobo said:

As it is now it's not at all realistic for everyone to have a fantastic and most players won't even have a supreem.

 

But it is mostly  based on your playtime and RNG. Sounds fair to me.

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The only thing rares need are better glowing effects :) and maybe sounds ;) wooot wooot ;P for those that feel making rares is a hopeless endeavor.... come visit me sometime and ill show you how to make em :P 

 

btw i crafted my supreme plate chest and legs within a few days and some of my friends have made supreme tools per my instruction :) and made a good bit of money in the process ;) its not super hard it really isnt ;/ remember before when u just queued up 100 times then cancelled if u didnt get the screen effect or sound? que que que que cancel cancel cancel... yes rare! could make all items rare within a few minutes using that... glad that got changed and put the roll at the end. :P

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Ooh the rarity system, my favorite topic.

 

Rarity system works with randomness and randomness is something rarely understood. People often dictate iteration probabilities without considering sequences. Like with d6 die your chances to roll a 6 every time is 1 out of 6. This will never change. Rolling a sequence of multiple 6 in a row is something that will rapidly diminish the longer sequence youre meaning, but each added roll has still 1 out of 6 chance of rolling yet-another-6.

 

Which is why... when crafting window shows me making small nail is 100% chance (which is probably very close to 100% because I almost have 100 blacksmithing)... I can still fail multiple times in a row. Its ridiculously low probability, but still possible. So, when I make nails with my skills and uber tools, I still fail one nail in about thousand. Which is 0.1% chance. So after I fail once I make another nail, there is 0.1% chance of me failing again to make it "two in a row", ridiculously low probability yeah? But when that happens for real, I will be flipping out and spit-shouting in all Wurm channels, forums, boards, planks, sticks and figures how "with 100% chance and I fail! TWICE!! IN A ROW!!!!".

 

That is how religions are being created too.

 

Still to this day, if we would make batch of really high QL compasses we would need to have everyone in local range to sacrifice rare item, have Refresh being cast on them, do /wave emotes, turn Sleep Bonus on, switch toilet towels to blue ones, and myriad of other ritualistic actions...

 

Because of this biased human-brain reason and all our inherent biases, I wholeheartedly agree with OP:

Rarity system serves to only make me feel miserable/anxious/angry where the low-chance of actually turning something useful into rare is not even remotely compensating all the negative implications/emotions packaged with it.

 

Edit; But the system can be that way, I have learned to live with it. Like I learn to live with annoying fly flying around my eyes and trying to get into my nostrils.

Edited by Raybarg
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remove the rarity messages unless you're actually going to make a rare... having a moment of inspiration and suddenly losing it at the same time makes no sense...

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2 hours ago, KyleBooze said:

remove the rarity messages unless you're actually going to make a rare... having a moment of inspiration and suddenly losing it at the same time makes no sense...

 

I was always happy I didn't have to see the rare swirl because I had glsl turned off, but then the event message was added without a way to turn it off. Woo...

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On 21/10/2016 at 9:56 PM, KyleBooze said:

remove the rarity messages unless you're actually going to make a rare... having a moment of inspiration and suddenly losing it at the same time makes no sense...

 

Always thought this and also that a "moment of inspiration" shouldn't have the possibility of damaging the item....it just doesn't logic.

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On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:56 PM, Nadroj said:

 

Always thought this and also that a "moment of inspiration" shouldn't have the possibility of damaging the item....it just doesn't logic.

 

Item was damaged by the shrapnel sent flying when the mind failed the rng roll and exploded. ;)

Edited by Klaa

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