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sandokhan

Rarity system is just C-R-A-P

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Just now, Cornchips said:

armchair pvp suggestions are always well received 

Well I always look forward to your posts, personally Cornchips, you make a fair point.

 

I am for pro-pvp changes, don't misunderstand my suggestion. I think a high level craft would be pretty simple for you guys to outfit your weapons with though.  Maybe just disable weapon damage item buffs on Chaos/Epic. Following the same pattern with shoulders.

 

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"hey im a priest so i cant imp my rare pickaxe :< "

"hey im a crafter so i cant imp the woa on my rare pickaxe :< "

 

no trading is terrible or whatever this thing was 0/10

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8 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

"hey im a priest so i cant imp my rare pickaxe :< "

"hey im a crafter so i cant imp the woa on my rare pickaxe :< "

 

no trading is terrible or whatever this thing was 0/10

So is the current system of having a influx of rares without creating a sink the economy will just become worse and worse. I realize on epic this means very little.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Niki said:

So is the current system of having a influx of rares without creating a sink the economy will just become worse and worse. I realize on epic this means very little.

 

 

 

the economy should never be a reason to make crazy changes to gameplay that effect pretty much everyone where being involved in muh economy is opt in and not everyone bothers or cares

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Why not just change the rules for rare, supreme & fantastic so that nothing under 25% can ever be rare, if it drops below that it loses it's "rare" status"

50 for supreme and,

75 for Fantastic.

 

This would make it more permissible for imps to improve the category if the quality level is appropriate. So this way it's a bit of RNG and a slight progression level.

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2 minutes ago, Tallios said:

Why not just change the rules for rare, supreme & fantastic so that nothing under 25% can ever be rare, if it drops below that it loses it's "rare" status"

50 for supreme and,

75 for Fantastic.

 

This would make it more permissible for imps to improve the category if the quality level is appropriate. So this way it's a bit of RNG and a slight progression level.

Pretty pointless change, some people use rare skillers.

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Just now, Niki said:

Pretty pointless change, some people use rare skillers.

 

well this is to combat the whole BS trend of 1ql skiller tools.  I'd prefer they change the xp system so you need a tool commensurate to your skill level to get effective games, not the learn by failing crap.

 

This would also make rares and such a flowing thing not a permanent status.

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1 minute ago, Tallios said:

 

well this is to combat the whole BS trend of 1ql skiller tools.  I'd prefer they change the xp system so you need a tool commensurate to your skill level to get effective games, not the learn by failing crap.

 

This would also make rares and such a flowing thing not a permanent status.

Have to make a update that wont piss anyone off, that's a really large step back. I think a lot of people would quit if they did that also, as it just creates another grind. Basically you might as well remove them if you implement that idea. My idea would create a market for upgrades on your existing tools. I see that pvp doesn't like the bound aspect, I understand some of there points, but you can also work around them, I'm being shot down because I didn't consider the pvp angle. If you can't find middle ground, changing it is pointless then.

 

It might be time to just increase rare creation, make supreme the new "Rare" and fantastic the new supreme and add a new level of rarity. Or don't change anything, again - I personally didn't see anything wrong except some minor economic issues long term. 

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13 minutes ago, Niki said:

It might be time to just increase rare creation, make supreme the new "Rare" and fantastic the new supreme and add a new level of rarity.

 

No, devs tested this on a private server and well it turned out bad (in my opinion.

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well this is one of those issues the devs will have to decide to keep or change, because no one will be happy no matter what

 

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8 hours ago, Darmalus said:

The game is 10 years old and rares are immortal, of course there will be lots of them eventually.

 

Just for the sake of semantics the game is older than 10 and rares were introduced 4 years ago

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Perhaps it should be possibly for rarity to decay with usage, with the higher the rarity the lower the chance of it dropping a level with usage?

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Go away to the holes you crawled out from, you rare nerf evangelists you.

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17 hours ago, Darmalus said:

The game is 10 years old and rares are immortal, of course there will be lots of them eventually.

They decay, get 100 damage and poof.. or people love to burn rare mallets/spears/etc... in forges.. it's a religion.. I'm not familiar with it, but for some reason the wooden rares around forges tend to keep the demand alive:huh::rolleyes:

 

16 hours ago, Tallios said:

Having a title active to increase the chance of successful rarity would be nice, and give a purpose.   Rarity as a pure random is kinda crap, at least being able to focus it based on title active would be more enjoyable and limit "randoms"

NO... this is a bad idea to implement.

 

16 hours ago, Shrimpiie said:

Moved this to the town square as there is no hint of suggestion for change, more just inciting debate over the existing system.

15 hours ago, Cornchips said:

nah it aint

true...

 

15 hours ago, joedobo said:

From a socialist perspective I don't like how rares add something to the game that realistically isn't achievable for everyone. imo, allowing a small percentage of players to have full sets of supreme and maybe even a couple fantastics is unacceptable.

Same guy ignored me the other day for being argumentative:lol:. 1st part.. people do work to get these... or buy them or just go to events and get really really cool rare/supreme/amazing items in bulk for chilling around, no need to be super competitive, try joining one of the gm events, you'll usually get something amazing and unique worth your time and more.

 

15 hours ago, joedobo said:

As far as the game intentionally trying to only give player useless rares, well I don't that is true. If folks need to blame something, blame probabilities or RNG. Imping stuff and have it go rare has the odds stacked against that succeeding.

 

When imping, in order for the rare roll to do anything there are a few conditions that make it fail very often. You need to succeed the action ( when I iimp stuff I spend a lot of time at the higher ql levels where failure is more common), the action's RNG derived rarity needs to be greater then the item your imping (only appiles if your imping a rare to begin with), and you must be lucky enough to win at a 1 in 5 RNG lottery.

 

For creating you just need to succeed that action. Further, we do these type of action much more often. And it's not uncommon for these type of actions to be very easy so we hardly ever fail.

 

 

blank new char.. got a rare brick -> turned to rare forge, 1st try, hard? no.. took me a year+ on my main plenty of rare parts never worked for me, EVER. It is RNG, we just tend to remember the bad experiences more than the good ones. You've answered your problem alone.. imp things which won't give you many fails.

1:5 is really good odds for a free lotto imo

 

Created a large cart and got inspired, didn't fail the action -> it was normal, why? because it's 50:50 chance to turn rare.

practice, practice, practice, talk with people doing the same, you'll get far(if that's your only reason to play)

 

15 hours ago, Worksock said:

change it so moment of inspiration always causes you to succeed whatever action you are doing

makes getting rares from imping less a pain

thx

as cute as this might sound... that's a really bad idea. won't comment further, just say the word "alts".

 

15 hours ago, Niki said:

1. Rarity over abundance is the natural progression of a game with a feature that doesn't allow people to have something better.

 

 2. I was discussing this with a friend, right now we should be able to craft "upgrades" for rares/supremes/fantastics that will make them "bound" or "soulbound" to the character. Many of you probably played a game with that type of feature in the past. Basically you will be unable to trade or sell these bound items. The good thing is you're tool now has a upgraded aspect which makes them more useful.

 

Few examples, better weapon damage, faster crafting timers. I think the rarity system is perfect, tweaking it would just make people angry. The problem is to much rare creation is making the economy saturate, long term. Prices are dropping obviously if you haven't noticed because the ability to sell tools that are immortal is the problem. 

 

3. This thread is just going to create controversy, honestly. It's not my place to question it though, OP you hit the hypothetical nail in the coffin at the right time.. some would say.

1. people aim for rares.. than supremes.. and than fantastics(unless they quit somewhere along the way of that chain.. being 1-2 to full set of armor/weapons/tools)

2. soulbound is probably going to put chaos on fire... people there love to loot others and call it a day, who's going to exchange the 100euro+ loot from a player for 2euro/1000 bricks from some rotting village.. pls..

3. "right time".. nobody said a word when there was 50:50 chance for last item added, plenty of people built castles from that broken mechanic; there's FLAWS in the current system but it "works", until a better one comes to replace it.. this one works *shrugs*

*I've made a few rares... most came from imps.. some I did bulk create to get, as dreams are dreams.. and some things are known to work in a certain way... why deal with rng when there's a sure way to get what you want.

soulbound is really broken idea to be in wurm imo... atm there's cashshop items for that, being mag/nacho to get a chance to keep your things on death.. that's plenty of options to not drop a thing, have there been a time in wurm's history where players were allowed to keep all their items on death?

 

14 hours ago, Cornchips said:

unable to trade rares

what an amazing idea

awful idea.. same with bound items.. why'd you pvp than.. we're all move to chaos and bound items to body and deeds(made by <player>, made on <deed> bound; will you still like to pvp than when there's nothing to gain?)

13 hours ago, Cornchips said:

literally no one doesn't want full drop in pvp

nvm you answered that alone;

 

14 hours ago, sandokhan said:

It's just lame rare moments dont count while imping ....only on creation it seems to give succes....with other words: only success for 99,9% for grinders only.
 

Think of a number, throw a hexagonal dice and see how often you'll guess it right.. your chances in wurm are similar..

 

14 hours ago, zigozag said:

Rares' creation system is ok, the rarity effect for 95% of stuff is crap though.

I'll politely keep my head and move along without commenting on this one.:ph34r:

nvm.. lol that was for 1st part.. on the end part... yes... armor for example is have really afwul bonus for it's rarity... nowhere near getting to next armor type, even as rare.. that's just DISTURBING. On the other hand.... it's kind of wrong to put supreme studded leather next to dragon hide armor, even if it makes sense because of rarity..:unsure::rolleyes:

 

13 hours ago, Niki said:

So is the current system of having a influx of rares without creating a sink the economy will just become worse and worse. I realize on epic this means very little.

But.. but.. people burn their rares.. or quit and some decay.. other misplace them, loose them.. newbs or alts take some and never log back.. and some get deleted with the character after some time; passwords are being forgotten etc... only possible reason for rares to become un/COMMON is .. that somebody's making them in bulk on everyday basis? We had that with 50:50 chance at last piece.. and nobody said anything.... even when it got patched and 99% of the population eventually learned about it.. nobody had anything to say about it; problem here isn't how many are created, it's just that sand~ had trouble making 1.:rolleyes:

 

10 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

the economy should never be a reason to make crazy changes to gameplay that effect pretty much everyone where being involved in muh economy is opt in and not everyone bothers or cares

In games.. it is.. really.. that's how things get patched.. and you keep the market going in some direction instead of just letting it be... but in wurm that affects people's gameplay more than in other games.. with the prems being run with silver&CCs, some just keep their thing going in a certain way.. imps, rares, ccs, BRICKS, and such..

Problem here is that this affects many, as some literally make ingame or RL spare pocket change to hundreds/mo from bulk creating and w/e other things.. idk exactly.. but GMs have some idea from flying around and seeing people naked(armor weights..).. and what they do.. at their houses(all for professional reasons ofc); point is... that we speak here because sand~ had trouble making 1 rare horse shoe or whatever other item.

 

10 hours ago, Tallios said:

Why not just change the rules for rare, supreme & fantastic so that nothing under 25% can ever be rare, if it drops below that it loses it's "rare" status"

50 for supreme and,

75 for Fantastic.

 

This would make it more permissible for imps to improve the category if the quality level is appropriate. So this way it's a bit of RNG and a slight progression level.

removing creation of rares.. interesting... not fun but...; this only puts things on fire..

 

10 hours ago, Niki said:

Pretty pointless change, some people use rare skillers.

and there's the opposition to that with macro bot impers...

 

10 hours ago, Tallios said:

well this is to combat the whole BS trend of 1ql skiller tools.  I'd prefer they change the xp system so you need a tool commensurate to your skill level to get effective games, not the learn by failing crap.

This would also make rares and such a flowing thing not a permanent status.

that's just offtopic here

rares do help when imping... as they imp more... and supremes do even better.. and than you have imbues.. <3

rare toolsets for serious impers will always be a thing when it offers better imps and less damage on the tools... and in wurm that somehow lowers the fading of the casts and imbue for some reason; it's just  <337 to have such things around if you do things every day.

 

10 hours ago, Niki said:

Have to make a update that wont piss anyone off, that's a really large step back. I think a lot of people would quit if they did that also, as it just creates another grind. Basically you might as well remove them if you implement that idea. My idea would create a market for upgrades on your existing tools. I see that pvp doesn't like the bound aspect, I understand some of there points, but you can also work around them, I'm being shot down because I didn't consider the pvp angle. If you can't find middle ground, changing it is pointless then.

 

It might be time to just increase rare creation, make supreme the new "Rare" and fantastic the new supreme and add a new level of rarity. Or don't change anything, again - I personally didn't see anything wrong except some minor economic issues long term. 

I never got that soulbound idea... but it seemed as it will only benefit the rare owners with high skill to put some more power into the tools

blah blah.. pvp people..  they'll show if needed, don't worry about them

 

Quote

It might be time to just increase rare creation, make supreme the new "Rare" and fantastic the new supreme and add a new level of rarity. Or don't change anything, again - I personally didn't see anything wrong except some minor economic issues long term. 

#### NO! (I use shift 3 manually don't worry, I'm so polite..:D)

 

9 hours ago, Tallios said:

well this is one of those issues the devs will have to decide to keep or change, because no one will be happy no matter what

everyone's pretty happy being clueless about how rares are being made, ask in global, nobody will tell you a thing back, it works 'well'

 

4 hours ago, Ecrir said:

Perhaps it should be possibly for rarity to decay with usage, with the higher the rarity the lower the chance of it dropping a level with usage?

perhaps scale and drake sets should turn to woodscraps after 10 imps, why not, it's only dragon scales and hide, who cares, more dragons spawn every few weeks, right, let's do it:huh:

 

1 hour ago, zigozag said:

Go away to the holes you crawled out from, you rare nerf evangelists you.

Could we just mail a rare woodscap to sand~ and close this?

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Ohh wow rares are rare and hard to get? That system sounds fubar /s

 

Stop thinking rares are necessary and just be happy you have a chance at it.

 

Is anyone a winner if everyone gets a medal?

Edited by Lunn
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23 hours ago, Darmalus said:

The game is 10 years old and rares are immortal, of course there will be lots of them eventually.

 

The rarity system was added to the game around the same time multistory housing was added. This was probably around 3 years ago.

 

While rares are immortal, they do exit the game as people stop playing without returning their rares back into circulation. As well, they do get shattered from casting. I know this first hand as I have removed several rares from the game in this way.

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Just to chime in specifically to your point, rares may very well leave the game in that manner, but they don't leave the game nearly as fast as they are created, so in a sense they could be considered immortal :P

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On 10/8/2016 at 9:22 PM, SmeJack said:

 

Just for the sake of semantics the game is older than 10 and rares were introduced 4 years ago

who cares how old the game is for his point of fact but you said it 4 years of "immortalized" rares meaning they never get tossed out they just keep being sold and used and sold and used and sold again 4 years worth. hence they are immortal.. get it..

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Oh I got it, but I don't think you got the semantic part ;)

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Nothing wrong with the rarity of rares really. It's just the presentation of it to the players that is borked. It's made to frustrate. Why do we need to know when we fail to get a rare? 

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Instead wasting countless hours in game to get a rare, better make and sell some bricks/mortar and buy any rares you want. Or hardcore option (for some people), spend 1-2 hours more in job and for extra money buy any rare you want.

 

Summing up - it is waste of time.

 

In before - "I have no job and I need this rare."

 

No, you don't need it.

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The Rare system should be a totally random event that occurs during creation and/or improvement of an item.  It should not be able to be reverse engineered in any way.  Essentially the way it is now, the "formula" if-you-will is known by a select few who choose to literally farm this game mechanic for money.  All it is accomplishing right now is a devaluation of practically every non-rare counterpart, which has the effect of keeping sales down for everyone unless they have rares to sell.

 

Remove the predictability mechanics of the rarity system and make it purely rare, not based on experience, skill, or discover-able rules.

 

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sorry some of us don't play the game to pay our electric bill and just like having a rare here and then

no need to flail this maximum-nerd case scenario like everyones doing it or something

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