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MootRed

Will there be an epic to freedom convert?

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4 hours ago, changer said:

the difficulty is bigger on epic, especially as you get higher skill, combine that with that epic has been up for 1/2 of the time that freedom has been up, there's no point in doing anything with skills

you're only accounting for the players that currently play on epic, i don't, and many more don't either, but if there was some kind of reset or merge i'd probably play again

I'm not going to argue about this. This is something the devs can easily come up with the correct information for. 

 

If you want to do comparing niarja to determine skill gain niarga shows some very high skilled toons almost similar to freedom players in talking top top toons and you say it yourself epic has only been up half the time. If that was the case the very top guys on epic should only be max 50ish str vs the 70 some are. But again this is a pointless argument that can be easily answered by the devs. 

 

The thing is some people would come back while others from epic would not and ill be 100% honest as well if a merge were to happen without proof of skill gains and all skills merged over I would sell out extremely quick.

 

I am 100% for a merge of accounts by means of figuring out the best way to do it but leaving the servers intact for everyone to still have the option where they want to play. My suggestion of finding that calculation and reverting all epic skills accordingly to be the same as freedom means for those of you who would like the option to play on freedom you would be able to because all skills would now be the same. Epic 2x skill gain would go away and an adjusted curve would take its place this way even though you may or may not lose skills from the calculated adjusted values you won't have any difference on epic whatso ever other then adjusted real skill values but the adjusted curve would take care of that difference. Now at this point you are not affected on Epic and all the work you have done remains the same but you gain the added benefit to choose the new option to take your account only over to freedom cluster and play there as well..

 

I will tell you if they allow me the ability to jump cluster to epic taking my skills with me and benefiting from the adjusted curve I will surely be playing on both clusters. I know many other people who would do the same and I'm sure there would be many epic players doing the same thing on chaos/freedom.  This change would also allow freedom players the ability to try their hand at the missions and becoming gods themselves. What it also does it create a challenge type server but a real one instead. I'm willing to bet epic would see an increase of population and activity. In willing to bet freedom/chaos would as well with this type of change. 

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I don't think niarja is a good way to compare... the top entry on epic side is such an obviously fake dump

 

And body stats aren't that hard to grind on freedom.  I started on wild, and in 1-1.5~ months I grinded mining.  60~ to 93 on rock, 96 on lead, 97 on copper when my lead popped.  This took me from 35~ to 50+ body strength, in less than 2 months.  I honestly don't get the complaints from those on freedom cluster about epic skills/stats  Edit:  remember this is also before we had spam sleep powder and no one really bought them off traders for 5s a pop

 

btw, I saw somewhere in this thread I think that someone tried to imply the curve stops at 99 lol?  No, it goes all the way to 100...  The instant you hit 90 skill you start grinding further and further along with 99+ difficulty and anyone that has grinded to 100 actual will know how severe the difficulty ramps up

 

btw#2, if you really want to force a merge (even though it's said constantly that it wont happen), I sure better get the highest skill/stat from each cluster applied to final character.  My account that has skills on both freedom/epic cluster are two very differently built accounts, but yet all the skills I still grinded

Edited by MrGARY
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So, any of you epic players want to supply me with a few coc pickaxes on epic? I can pay (on the freedom cluster). Ill grind to 95 and we'll see if im right or not.

 

A bed for sleepbonus would also be appriciated.

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Uh...

 

I understand trying to fix something to make the server better, thats good.

 

@Retrograde @BuddaName one thing about the Epic cluster that is unique or somewhat captivating for people to join the server as it sits now.  Don't say skillgain advantage or curve, go ahead and try and explain to someone why they should join the Epic cluster.  If you could name one I would be astounded.  I've racked my brains for something and the only thing I can really see is becoming a player god, which is complete cancer. 

 

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I'm sure someone with intimate knowledge of how the skill system calculates gains could extrapolate an actual "skill gain difficulty" curve for both freedom and epic. The curves would be different, but I expect both would be exponential.

You take the area under those curves (lets call that value skill gain effort or SGE) and add it together, then see where it puts you on the merged skill curve. Since the difficulty is exponential, every point of SGE would get you less skill. For example, merging someone with Mining 70 on once character and mining 30 on another might get you mining 73, while merging 2 characters with Mining 30 might get you to Mining 40. The effort by the player (the only important thing) is preserved. (Note: Number purely for illustration.)

This would also work if, in the future, skills were removed, changed, merged or split. Effort is preserved and moved to the new or changed skills without loss.

Edited by Darmalus

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8 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Uh...

 

I understand trying to fix something to make the server better, thats good.

 

@Retrograde @BuddaName one thing about the Epic cluster that is unique or somewhat captivating for people to join the server as it sits now.  Don't say skillgain advantage or curve, go ahead and try and explain to someone why they should join the Epic cluster.  If you could name one I would be astounded.  I've racked my brains for something and the only thing I can really see is becoming a player god, which is complete cancer. 

 

I can name many reasons why Epic could be a fun server to play on... Yes the curve is one of them.. It allows easy ability to get into the mix quicker then freedom. The missions having much much more game play involved vs the missions on freedom. Becoming a deity! Home server CR advantages.. Random treasure chests. The ability to kill or be killed in a bit more of a leveled playing field since drake and scale are not highly used, its a actual glorified challenge server with much more going for it if the devs would use epic to their abilities. 

 

That's what I think about epic. 

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24 minutes ago, whykillme said:

So, any of you epic players want to supply me with a few coc pickaxes on epic?

 

I have a spare 84 coc pickaxe I would donate to that cause.

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I still think that...  close down epic and restart chaos map with only pmks involved.  We all know mr wins.

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49 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

I can name many reasons why Epic could be a fun server to play on... Yes the curve is one of them.. It allows easy ability to get into the mix quicker then freedom. The missions having much much more game play involved vs the missions on freedom. Becoming a deity! Home server CR advantages.. Random treasure chests. The ability to kill or be killed in a bit more of a leveled playing field since drake and scale are not highly used, its a actual glorified challenge server with much more going for it if the devs would use epic to their abilities. 

 

That's what I think about epic. 

1. Curve means nothing if regulated to a server of no one

2. Missions are on both clusters they are not "more involved" they are the same missions.

3. Becoming a deity is so incredibly random that it will never happen

4. Home server CR advantages is in no way a benefit (technically freedom servers are home servers to those on chaos and they are safer)

5. Random treasure chests, again wow I have items that I have relegated to the epic cluster that have no actual value and server little more than eye candy.

6. No drake and scale? Sure but glimmer, addy, and seryll are way more apparent.

7. It is like challenge, a testing ground for the live game aka chaos and freedom, not fair to the player base who were promised a stable server.

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meh, epic barely had anything unique to it beforehand, missions and the whole epic scenario system is just a lottery system which was meant to reward the few and the brave that went balls deep into enemy lands, instead it has now mostly had benefit for rice farmers on the homeservers that cut a tree or killed a pig outside of their deed

 

and epic wasn't just put in the gas chamber, no, it wasn't just a sudden end, it was put in the work camp and eventually died of malnutrition because the endless pro-defence changes gave less and less incentive to go out there and play the actual game, so now everyone sits on deed until they quit (which most of us have already)

 

chaos is probably too used to the turbo autism that is static defence already to have even changed

 

 

 

Edited by changer
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17 hours ago, zigozag said:

Maybe if they opened Epic for WU players and made it 10x or more, a lot of new people would come there from both WU and WO Freedom. Speaking for myself, as of now, since grinding is required on both clusters, i'm never going there, because why (inb4 to become a deity)?

I honestly don't understand why they don't actually do just that, especially with the focus they are putting on PVP right now.

 

Standing up a good server costs $111 - 175 CDN per month with solid networking including DDOS protection that works. A bit more on top if they decide to host a TeamSpeak or equivalent server to make feedback higher quality.

 

Run the server like a special case WO cluster, test the hell out of it and then take the successes back to WO. Long term they could even keep it going if it proved to be as successful as I think it could be.

 

So let's says costs of $200 CDN a month, if 20 players were willing to pay $10 CDN a month they would be at break even point and still get valuable information as a bonus.

 

So what is stopping them from doing this? 

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43 minutes ago, Nappy said:

I honestly don't understand why they don't actually do just that, especially with the focus they are putting on PVP right now.

 

Standing up a good server costs $111 - 175 CDN per month with solid networking including DDOS protection that works. A bit more on top if they decide to host a TeamSpeak or equivalent server to make feedback higher quality.

 

Run the server like a special case WO cluster, test the hell out of it and then take the successes back to WO. Long term they could even keep it going if it proved to be as successful as I think it could be.

 

So let's says costs of $200 CDN a month, if 20 players were willing to pay $10 CDN a month they would be at break even point and still get valuable information as a bonus.

 

So what is stopping them from doing this? 

So uh, challenge?

 

 

Edited by SeeD
Removed the snarky bit, Not all pvpers disliked it

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...But my question was if the consideration for a character transfer would be possible?

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21 minutes ago, MootRed said:

...But my question was if the consideration for a character transfer would be possible?

There's a lot of.. turbulence behind the desires to breathe fresh life into epic, some just wish to play on their own accounts on chaos, some might wish to sell on a server with a better market, others just want to see epic returned to being unique and playable.

 

Whenever questions about the future of epic come up, there's going to be heated debate.

 

Epic is not being shut down, and we will not be merging or transferring characters. What we will be doing is exploring the possibility of bringing new mechanics that stay unique to epic, rather than the ones that have filtered through to freedom.

 

The redesign will take time, but we have one chance to do this right.

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To me it never made sence decision to not be able to freely move your account within game with all your skills. It was bad decision that led to what's happening now.

 

Removing curve and finding some other way for quicker skill gain up to certain level wurmwide and letting ppl freely roam wurm world might bring some new players and revive clusters. Why not using master/apprentice approach for new players instead of curve? If new player is bound in any way with some player or group there's more chance that new player will stay and continue to play.

 

I don't think new features on epic will do anything. Most of wurm stable population are old players playing several years, i can't imagine what feature would make player from chaos that has 90s in their skills to play epic. This new epic content will not happen any time soon, i hope you have enough resources to support it with WU, WO freedom cluster and Epic all of them with their own unique features and their own unique bugs.

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

....

Epic is not being shut down, and we will not be merging or transferring characters. What we will be doing is exploring the possibility of bringing new mechanics that stay unique to epic, rather than the ones that have filtered through to freedom.

 

The redesign will take time, but we have one chance to do this right.

It is pointless battle. Everyone is blaming mechanics, but numbers were healthy(more or less) up until last year. So basically biggest problem for epic was WU. WU gave something, what epic players wanted, more pvp with less skilling. No matter, what you do, you can't beat WU.. WUis faster, cheaper. Only advantage, which WO(epic) has over WU, is persistence(more or less, because with Elevation reset you even take that security away tbh), but because in WU you can quickly in action on any server, the persistance has very big impact.

 

Sorry epic guys, but the I am pretty sure, that no matter what is being done, epic is dead. Chaos is better off, as someone mentioned, because it has pve islands, which can be used as recruit base. So if you want to improve PvP, focus on the synergy between Chaos and whole cluster. Expand kingdoms outside Chaos.. no I don't mean PvP on PvE servers, but some features similar to current missions, doing which you can contribute to the kingdom. If you make people feel part of the kindgom on PvE, then when your kingdom is in trouble on Chaos, there is higher chance, that more people will pick up arms and show up to defend it. I mentioned missions, on freedom it is completely useless. First thing is, why are epic player gods even present on freedom? Secondly, doing missions is completely useless(besides SB and karma), make kingdom based instead of epic gods and completing them somehow impact kingdoms for example. Second useless feature is rifts, which has zero impact on anything. Basically features have been added to the game for a long time, now it is time to connect the dots and make it somehow all interconnected. So if a player (no matter if they are on Chaos or PvE servers) does something, they feel like it matters and it has an impact in the grand scheme of things. It is a sandbox after all, you can't lure more people in the sandbox game just by giving them more ways to grind for loot.

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

There's a lot of.. turbulence behind the desires to breathe fresh life into epic, some just wish to play on their own accounts on chaos, some might wish to sell on a server with a better market, others just want to see epic returned to being unique and playable.

 

Whenever questions about the future of epic come up, there's going to be heated debate.

 

Epic is not being shut down, and we will not be merging or transferring characters. What we will be doing is exploring the possibility of bringing new mechanics that stay unique to epic, rather than the ones that have filtered through to freedom.

 

The redesign will take time, but we have one chance to do this right.

The damage is already done, the people who created pvp have already left and the valrei system has given out christmas gifts to the wrong people for a few years

 

i'd rather have a complete reset of the epic cluster, cap the ore ql on homeservers as it was in the start, actually create decent maps and let the players vote on the maps, reset the cluster every 3-4 years, put the player gods idea in the trashcan where it belongs, and actually fix the godamn valrei system beforehand so that we're not stuck with 900 valrei items on homeserver rice farmers who cut a tree while we're on enemy homeservers operatan, the boat is already on the bottom of the sea, trying to fix a few holes here and there won't do much at all

 

3 hours ago, rixk said:

It is pointless battle. Everyone is blaming mechanics, but numbers were healthy(more or less) up until last year. So basically biggest problem for epic was WU. WU gave something, what epic players wanted, more pvp with less skilling. No matter, what you do, you can't beat WU.. WUis faster, cheaper. Only advantage, which WO(epic) has over WU, is persistence(more or less, because with Elevation reset you even take that security away tbh), but because in WU you can quickly in action on any server, the persistance has very big impact.

 

Sorry epic guys, but the I am pretty sure, that no matter what is being done, epic is dead. Chaos is better off, as someone mentioned, because it has pve islands, which can be used as recruit base. So if you want to improve PvP, focus on the synergy between Chaos and whole cluster. Expand kingdoms outside Chaos.. no I don't mean PvP on PvE servers, but some features similar to current missions, doing which you can contribute to the kingdom. If you make people feel part of the kindgom on PvE, then when your kingdom is in trouble on Chaos, there is higher chance, that more people will pick up arms and show up to defend it. I mentioned missions, on freedom it is completely useless. First thing is, why are epic player gods even present on freedom? Secondly, doing missions is completely useless(besides SB and karma), make kingdom based instead of epic gods and completing them somehow impact kingdoms for example. Second useless feature is rifts, which has zero impact on anything. Basically features have been added to the game for a long time, now it is time to connect the dots and make it somehow all interconnected. So if a player (no matter if they are on Chaos or PvE servers) does something, they feel like it matters and it has an impact in the grand scheme of things. It is a sandbox after all, you can't lure more people in the sandbox game just by giving them more ways to grind for loot.

the biggest problems was the influx of negative changes and the horrible map, and the fact that the cluster is aging, the farther down the line we go the less will new players want to play and the more will the odds be stacked, the more backup sets and bricks will be made and so on. Pretty much everyone played WU at some point, but nobody plays it exclusively now, apart from some people who never played WO or pvped in WO anyways.

Edited by changer

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5 hours ago, Retrograde said:

What we will be doing is exploring the possibility of bringing new mechanics that stay unique to epic, rather than the ones that have filtered through to freedom.

 

Will this happen out in the open? Or will this be worked upon behind closed doors and then 'surprise! here are some features nobody wants'?

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36 minutes ago, mayweather said:

 

Will this happen out in the open? Or will this be worked upon behind closed doors and then 'surprise! here are some features nobody wants'?

Haha, you think devs would release their supposed plan to revive epic?

Ofcourse not.

Hell thats assuming there is one.

 

Hey retro, could ya like consolidate current plans to REVIVE THE EPIC CLUSTER?

I'm greatly amused about the notion that Epic is revivable and thus I actually have interest in what the supposed plan is.

If you have a plan then gathering that info would take 30-60 min at most.

sidenote: "Oh we will do valrei stuff better!" isn't a "plan". Give us something tangible.

Edited by Zekezor
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6 hours ago, Retrograde said:

What we will be doing is exploring the possibility of bringing new mechanics that stay unique to epic, rather than the ones that have filtered through to freedom.

 

The redesign will take time, but we have one chance to do this right.

 

Let me save you some angst and hundreds of coders' hours.

 

They'll once again not like it, "that's why epic is dying", they'll complain that a lot of stuff isn't removed from Freedom and also attribute that to "why epic is dying", anything done to keep new players for over 5 minutes will also be "why epic is dying", anything added globally (specially to Freedom) will be complained about as taking away dev time and player interest from epic which is "why epic is dying", then more features will be demanded because "epic is dying".

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24 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

 

Let me save you some angst and hundreds of coders' hours.

 

They'll once again not like it, "that's why epic is dying", they'll complain that a lot of stuff isn't removed from Freedom and also attribute that to "why epic is dying", anything done to keep new players for over 5 minutes will also be "why epic is dying", anything added globally (specially to Freedom) will be complained about as taking away dev time and player interest from epic which is "why epic is dying", then more features will be demanded because "epic is dying".

 

no, it's because rice farmer peasants that are similar to you that are in charge of the changes, where you and they have absolutely no idea what the changes actually means in practical terms, and they're literally the only ones that the team listens to because they're part of the wurm bureaucracy

 

i couldn't care less if epic systems were added to freedom like the valrei items, freedom is a zero sum game where nothing matters in the end, you build a house and you've beat the pve game, pvpers wouldn't choose freedom because it suddenly has some more systems that you can gain some shekels from

Edited by changer
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17 minutes ago, changer said:

 

no, it's because rice farmer peasants that are similar to you that are in charge of the changes, where you and they have absolutely no idea what the changes actually means in practical terms, and they're literally the only ones that the team listens to because they're part of the wurm bureaucracy

 

i couldn't care less if epic systems were added to freedom like the valrei items, freedom is a zero sum game where nothing matters in the end, you build a house and you've beat the pve game, pvpers wouldn't choose freedom because it suddenly has some more systems that you can gain some shekels from

Think of this as a great chance to quit that easy mode server you are on, and start over in the real Wurm, with people, no gimmicks, skill gains as they are supposed to be, etc.   People are really friendly too, if you anounce yourself in freedom chat, Im sure someone would take you under their wing untill you can get some skills to survive.

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10 minutes ago, Rathgar said:

Think of this as a great chance to quit that easy mode server you are on, and start over in the real Wurm, with people, no gimmicks, skill gains as they are supposed to be, etc.   People are really friendly too, if you anounce yourself in freedom chat, Im sure someone would take you under their wing untill you can get some skills to survive.

there's no point in skilling or doing anything on freedom after you've got a 1x1 down with a lock, rolf should temporarily put freedom on pvp mode and open it up to epic and chaos pvpers so they can see what the game actually is supposed to be like

 

I played on release when that opened up, we got a deed down, ok now what, we shot some other guys horses at his deed and that was it, all that was left was to gain some shekels as a happy merchant but you might aswell get a real job if you're going to play this game to gain shekels

Edited by changer
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6 minutes ago, changer said:

there's no point in skilling or doing anything on freedom after you've got a 1x1 down with a lock, rolf should temporarily put freedom on pvp mode and open it up to epic and chaos pvpers so they can see what the game actually is supposed to be like

 

I played on release when that opened up, we got a deed down, ok now what, we shot some other guys horses at his deed and that was it, all that was left was to gain some shekels as a happy merchant but you might aswell get a real job if you're going to play this game to gain shekels

 

He already did that once, and it wasnt a good outcome.  Also, I see that for you "fun" is causing grief to others, so nvm what I said, enjoy the epic PvP experience, by all means, please stay on that side. Good luck getting other griefers to play with you.

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8 hours ago, SeeD said:

So uh, challenge?

 

 

Could be however it doesn't have to be. At $200 per month it doesn't take much premium to recover costs and start to make some money so they could start it to learn things and eventually keep it going to provide even more PVP options if they wanted to.

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