Posted September 13, 2016 The other day, I was talking to a few others about how stale a lot of the markets in Wurm are, specifically the boat market. A few things that were brought up, was the fact that boats realistically "never" decay, and that once someone has a good boat, there is little reason for them to need another. Here is where my idea comes into play - Allow players to enchant boats with WoA. Seems crazy at first, but here are a couple things I want to say about it. If the enchant wears off based on distance travelled, and gives a realistically large speed bonus, it would not only freshen up the boat market, it will also help players reach their destinations quicker (Effects can be lessened or negated on PvP servers if this is an issue). Adds a "boat sink", to remove boats from the game via the already implemented shatter mechanic while enchanting. This gives reason for players to need new boats on the market, and have a risk when having boats enchanted, especially by inexperienced priests. So, citizens of Wurm, what do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Shydow said: If the enchant wears off based on distance travelled, and gives a realistically large speed bonus, it would not only freshen up the boat market, it will also help players reach their destinations quicker (Effects can be lessened or negated on PvP servers if this is an issue) So, citizens of Wurm, what do you think? This only boosts the enchanting market, not the boat market. The only part that boosts the boat market is the shatter chance like you said... although assuming shatter chances are the same as other items, that'll almost never happen, given a decent priest. I do like the idea though... faster boats are great. Maybe if boats took faster decay and they gained more speed depending on quality. (Even though this was added recently, I'd like to see it a lot more so) *Faster decay but even a 1ql boat would be as fast as a current speed boat, so low quality doesn't punish new players, but high quality will still greatly benefit those who can get it. WoA is great too...but that changes the focus from ship builders to priests...Would be nice if people other than priests had something to sell. They already have the market pretty well dominated. Edited September 13, 2016 by Jukka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 And then comes a guy with 10 channeling and "enchants" all the boats on shore.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, rixk said: And then comes a guy with 10 channeling and "enchants" all the boats on shore.. This is a good point, I hadn't thought of this. Perhaps we could have some sort protection added through permissions, maybe an additional category on the current permissions screen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 Shattering is a very small removal from the systems, and the problem with calculating based off distance is even more server checks. Would a better boost to the boat market simply be improving how much the current speed bonus is on PvE servers? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) lol @ shattering boats, but we sure could use some speed bonus for sailing. However with the latest changes a 67ql rowboat was going at 15+km/h (along with the wind) with just the commander, which isn't too bad. Edited September 13, 2016 by zigozag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Retrograde said: Shattering is a very small removal from the systems, and the problem with calculating based off distance is even more server checks. Would a better boost to the boat market simply be improving how much the current speed bonus is on PvE servers? From what I can tell, the current bonus is pretty small and seems a bit disappointing. Rather than glut up this thread with it, I've made a suggestion here: That said, QL-based effects only would improve the boat-improving market. The bigger problem is that boat-building market is crummy. Improving is one thing, but there's always going to be a problem if the market value of building a ship in the first place is so much lower than the effort needed to construct it. This is in stark contrast to most items in Wurm, which are easy to create and where both the effort and value is in improving them. Idea that might be so crazy it could actually work: Make the QL-based bonus significant, to the point where people care about it a lot, then disallow ships from being improved past their original creation quality, making the actual shipbuilding process valuable. In other words, make them repair like structures in the sense that repairing doesn't lose QL, but disallow improving and keep decay slow. This would be a pretty drastic change and require some tweaking to make sure the ships come out at reasonable QL to begin with, but... it's a thought. Possibly not workable though. Edited September 13, 2016 by Ostentatio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) What would help the boat construction market is an overhaul of how repairing works. Currently repairing doesn't require any materials, even though building the actual boat required many different materials. So what I'd propose is to make repairing cost materials. For example, say that the repair action changes the boat into an "undergoing repair" state. In this state the boat cannot be used, this action should likely also be restricted to those who can pilot the boat, or even to just the owner. When a boat enters the "undergoing repair" state it randomly determines which materials are required in order to repair the boat, the higher the damage the more materials need to be replaced and the bigger the odds are that something complex, like the rigging or a mast, needs to be replaced. This could simply come down to having to attach those items to the boat, just as back when the boat was still unfinished. The difficulties of these actions would depend on the ship building skill, just as when the ship was originally build. The ship should still be able to contain cargo and such in this state. Once the last item is attached the boat returns to normal and can once again be used. That could actually help the ship market, there'd be no need to remove ships from the game through shattering as owners of ships would instead need to visit ship builders in order to have their ships repaired. And then just boost the speed bonus from ql so it's actually significant, which will also server as an extra incentive to have that boat repaired. Edited September 13, 2016 by Ecrir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) (EDIT: ignore/delete this, I'm dumb) Edited September 13, 2016 by Ostentatio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ostentatio said: Idea that might be so crazy it could actually work: Make the QL-based bonus significant, to the point where people care about it a lot, then disallow ships from being improved past their original creation quality, making the actual shipbuilding process valuable. This would be a pretty drastic change and require some tweaking to make sure the ships come out at reasonable QL to begin with, but... it's a thought. Awful idea... practically no use for the boats made by people without 90/+ woodcutting, hatchet/carving knife/saw/shipbuilding.. as parts will be ~awful ql etc... enough said.. I'd suggest a 2nd inventory for the boats where to hold 'boosters' cloth-tailoring-sails, rigging, mast etc.. or the parts of the boat that affect it's speed.. and have all of them kept there.. and their QL to affect the boat's speed, ofc.. less to no decay for the items that can be kept there or = decay for the parts as the decay rate for the boat itself.. when it's not used; for when the boat's in use these items could take damage and keep the need for improving the sails etc.. To skill spice the things.. boats with oars and similar 'easy' to make parts could take damage faster if they are low ql... keeping the need for higher ql parts and the alternative... for lower ql owners to keep spares in their normal boat-inventory. IMO boat repairing with ingredients is a NO-NO, as "FUN" as it might sound... it will be equal to weather effects on terrain/houses or w/e old feature wurm had where a storm with lightnings could trash your house... "FUN!!" - No.. Additionally I'd suggest a feature with the quality grades, where ql50/70/90 boats take less damage when used by some multiplier.. making it a-thing to go to the market and look for specific quality of improvement.. Boats do take some damage when used and could be quite annoying to repair, get lower ql.. and having the need to sail over a shipbuilder for another improvement, just to return to the same person next week \o/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) For those who want to stimulate the ship building market: Get off, guys, if you want to build ships - build them, if you want to earn silvers with it - deal with the fact that it's not easy, nobody is ought to provide you with such an ability. Or you could be Jpopper. That being said, there are just 2 ways to do that: - new and many kinds of ships - make LOW QL ships GO FASTER. We'll keep them unimped and rarely repaired and a lot of people will miss the repair day and then they'll need a new ship. j/k but please stop with this market thing, it's always ideas bad for majority but good for chosen ones' profit Edited September 13, 2016 by zigozag 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Retrograde said: Shattering is a very small removal from the systems, and the problem with calculating based off distance is even more server checks. Would a better boost to the boat market simply be improving how much the current speed bonus is on PvE servers? That does bring up a good point. Maybe have the enchant decay daily, providing a slightly smaller boost each day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 12 hours ago, zigozag said: j/k but please stop with this market thing, it's always ideas bad for majority but good for chosen ones' profit No. The goal should be, that everyone(even not so experienced players) should have a chance to make money.. do they use that opportunity, or not, is their own thing. Of course, when everyone has chance to make money, there are people, who make money more effectively. THIS is something, which people have problem with. "Oh god, he makes so much money, we should nerf it". It has been nerfed, but reality is, that it has pretty much eliminated ways to make money for small-time players. Those big fish still make money, because they are more effective in selling their goods too. One more thing is.. everyone wants to make money(can't deny that, considering how popular trade forums/trade chat are), but they don't want to spend money. So pushing for changes, which make you spend less and less cash, means that for others there are less and less reasons to spend as well. Which eventually affects everyones (both, small and bigger fish) income as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 On 9/13/2016 at 11:52 PM, Shydow said: That does bring up a good point. Maybe have the enchant decay daily, providing a slightly smaller boost each day? Take a break for a few months already results in plenty of stuff to repair, adding enchants to that mix won't make anybody happy. Perhaps instead it could simply be based on how long a boat has been used. Say you start a timer the moment someone boards the ship as the commander (if the boat is moored then the anchor must also first be lifted before the timer starts), you stop the timer and determine decay the moment the commander leaves the ship (or deploys the anchor). It should be simple enough that it doesn't impose any extra strain on the server, while at the same time ensuring that decay is based on usage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 16, 2016 On 9/13/2016 at 4:16 PM, Retrograde said: Shattering is a very small removal from the systems, and the problem with calculating based off distance is even more server checks. Would a better boost to the boat market simply be improving how much the current speed bonus is on PvE servers? Nobody slap me for this.. it's a crazy thought, OK? No tomatoes, potatoes are ok.. if sliced and fried How about making another use of body stats like body.control and mind.speed or something like that... to add a bit more speed with the boats, it does make a little bit of sense to give smarter or more skilled people a perk to control their boats better On 9/13/2016 at 3:53 PM, rixk said: And then comes a guy with 10 channeling and "enchants" all the boats on shore.. On 9/14/2016 at 0:52 AM, Shydow said: That does bring up a good point. Maybe have the enchant decay daily, providing a slightly smaller boost each day? I'm still scared from rixk's priest thought there, could we first fix that mechanic ^^' offdeed caravels will go extinct pretty fast if anyone can cast random things anywhere on other's property. IDK Shydow, this is good for priests and shipbuilders.. making and imping to 90ql.. to be ready for "Shatter" tv series casting. That ofc could be 'fixed' if boats are like... mailboxes, ~impossible/unlikely/ to shatter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
