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Carmichael

Catapulting overhaul

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Bring back the old and simple system of hit the 10th tile if you winch 10, 11th if 11, 29th if 29, etc. This current one is way to buggy and just plain terrible. Or just come up with an actual good system that works properly too.

Edited by Carmichael
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i must admit, it is pretty entertaining when you winch 29, and you can only damage one of four walls on that tile, but when you move back 4 winch 33 you hit all the same tiles with no elevation difference

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as someone that is against making raiding easier, I can only say the arc is still absurd, it's not difficulty, its literally "why me" stone cold face staring at the monitor.  just remove the weird arc slope winch modifier that tries to make sense but cant even, but leave partial arc if possible, so it still makes sense to hit things in the way first to get to where you're aiming, while also removing "partially hitting a tile" wth is that

 

like ive had aim 10 on perfectly flat ground, 0 slopes, 0 angles, and it shoots 12

or i aim at an angle, and it hits 4 tiles pretty much perpendicularly away and hits the spotter

what the gosh

Edited by MrGARY
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9 hours ago, Carmichael said:

Bring back the old and simple system of hit the 10th tile if you winch 10, 11th if 11, 29th if 29, etc. This current one is way to buggy and just plain terrible. Or just come up with an actual good system that works properly too.

Please learn to catapult. There are some factors to catapulting but its not as bad as some of you make it out to be. Plus a deed should not be 1 2 3 to break into. 

 

-15

Edited by MaurizioAM

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8 hours ago, MrGARY said:

as someone that is against making raiding easier, I can only say the arc is still absurd, it's not difficulty, its literally "why me" stone cold face staring at the monitor.  just remove the weird arc slope winch modifier that tries to make sense but cant even, but leave partial arc if possible, so it still makes sense to hit things in the way first to get to where you're aiming, while also removing "partially hitting a tile" wth is that

 

like ive had aim 10 on perfectly flat ground, 0 slopes, 0 angles, and it shoots 12

or i aim at an angle, and it hits 4 tiles pretty much perpendicularly away and hits the spotter

what the gosh

The arc is fun to use when you don't need to remove what's in your way. It takes some time and patience to line it up properly but it at least provides you that option as opposed to removing it and having to break what's in front before you can get to where u want.  You probably already know this more then most skill is a very important factor. And just patience as rng will determine how successful your shots are.

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2 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

Please learn to catapult. There are some factors to catapulting but its not as bad as some of you make it out to be. Plus a deed should not be 1 2 3 to break into. 

 

-15

 

please dude, we spent a hundred hours catapulting gotem and nobody was even there to defend it

hours and hours of attempting to hit multistory buildings with floor plans blocking the catapult shots, 10 winches hitting 10 tiles ahead of you, and then 11 winches hitting the 14th tile

 

it needs reworked, having a dependable raiding system =/= breaking into a deed in 1 2 3

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53 minutes ago, platinumteef said:

 

please dude, we spent a hundred hours catapulting gotem and nobody was even there to defend it

hours and hours of attempting to hit multistory buildings with floor plans blocking the catapult shots, 10 winches hitting 10 tiles ahead of you, and then 11 winches hitting the 14th tile

 

it needs reworked, having a dependable raiding system =/= breaking into a deed in 1 2 3

When the shots were lined right and higher skilled catapulting toons were used and higher ql ammo everything started going easier. That's why I said there are factors. In not saying its perfect and cannot be tweaked. But when Icbash was complaining about the inability to break whole areas it took me 20 mins to finally set up the angles of the shots and the whole building went down fairly quick. When there was enough people working on it with more then 1 skill and when I realized because I was told the so of the catas were all shat after they were imped it made a world of difference. All those catas were macedons I expected more from them so I never thought to look at the Veap so they actually were. 

 

Overall 1 person should not be able to successfully cata a deed with any sort of opposition so it should be hard while no one is defending. We had 1 - 5ish people doing the catapulting at sperts with the exception of about 3 who did put in a lot of time at the beginning. Even you said considering how much was there in the top side it wasn't that bad once we had the cata ql up and ammo ql. 

 

Again it can use tweaking but its not as bad and people make it out to be. This game is not all about destroying deeds because a zerg is able to. MR has done massive amounts of damage to the server in terms of total destruction of deeds with the same exact (broken catapulting mechanic) now that JK is in a little action they all of a sudden want it easier. 

 

Shall I dig up some comments about catapulting where since it was working in JK favor they also claimed it to be working ok?

 

I can agree on 1 thing. The randomness with the same wench could be put in line a little bit more then what it currently is... Perhaps 2 randomizers one with a wild affect still allowing those crazy misses but at a less likely occurrence and one with a slightly narrower miss factor. 

 

Other then that height differences are taken into affect, placement on the tile also affects it. Wench count also affects it as it all should.

 

 

Edited by MaurizioAM

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41 minutes ago, MaurizioAM said:

When the shots were lined right and higher skilled catapulting toons were used and higher ql ammo everything started going easier. That's why I said there are factors. In not saying its perfect and cannot be tweaked. But when Icbash was complaining about the inability to break whole areas it took me 20 mins to finally set up the angles of the shots and the whole building went down fairly quick. When there was enough people working on it with more then 1 skill and when I realized because I was told the so of the catas were all shat after they were imped it made a world of difference. All those catas were macedons I expected more from them so I never thought to look at the Veap so they actually were. 

 

Overall 1 person should not be able to successfully cata a deed with any sort of opposition so it should be hard while no one is defending. We had 1 - 5ish people doing the catapulting at sperts with the exception of about 3 who did put in a lot of time at the beginning. Even you said considering how much was there in the top side it wasn't that bad once we had the cata ql up and ammo ql. 

 

Again it can use tweaking but its not as bad and people make it out to be. This game is not all about destroying deeds because a zerg is able to. MR has done massive amounts of damage to the server in terms of total destruction of deeds with the same exact (broken catapulting mechanic) now that JK is in a little action they all of a sudden want it easier. 

 

Shall I dig up some comments about catapulting where since it was working in JK favor they also claimed it to be working ok?

 

I can agree on 1 thing. The randomness with the same wench could be put in line a little bit more then what it currently is... Perhaps 2 randomizers one with a wild affect still allowing those crazy misses but at a less likely occurrence and one with a slightly narrower miss factor. 

 

Other then that height differences are taken into affect, placement on the tile also affects it. Wench count also affects it as it all should.

 

 

 

If youd like, i can grief your canal with a building you can't catapult or bash. The only way you will ever get rid of it is via a GM blowing up the building, myself blowing up the building, or decay.

 

If you want to see how stupid it is.

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3 hours ago, MaurizioAM said:

You probably already know this more then most skill is a very important factor. And just patience as rng will determine how successful your shots are.

 

yeah skill and rng to have a successful shot is nice and all but i don't see what this has to do with winching according to game mechanic details for a and hitting b

 

I have 40 catapult, which is 64 effective on epic if it matters, how much more do I need to hit where I aim and not 5 tiles away in a random direction?

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2 hours ago, MAADposter said:

 

If youd like, i can grief your canal with a building you can't catapult or bash. The only way you will ever get rid of it is via a GM blowing up the building, myself blowing up the building, or decay.

 

If you want to see how stupid it is.

Thats an actual bugged mechanic the GMs already know about and are working on. 

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15 minutes ago, MrGARY said:

 

yeah skill and rng to have a successful shot is nice and all but i don't see what this has to do with winching according to game mechanic details for a and hitting b

 

I have 40 catapult, which is 64 effective on epic if it matters, how much more do I need to hit where I aim and not 5 tiles away in a random direction?

Yes thats why i did say some tweaking is needed, but there should still be some RNG with where you aim, wind changes and should be a factor, skill and cata ql should be factor and ammo ql as well.  The complete randomness of catapulting is one of the main things that needs to be looked at. But a complete overhaul to make it as simple as some people want is not and will never be a good thing.

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1 hour ago, MaurizioAM said:

Yes thats why i did say some tweaking is needed, but there should still be some RNG with where you aim, wind changes and should be a factor, skill and cata ql should be factor and ammo ql as well.  The complete randomness of catapulting is one of the main things that needs to be looked at. But a complete overhaul to make it as simple as some people want is not and will never be a good thing.

You obviously haven't raided a deed ever. It's so difficult and retarded of a system. Everything you literally said in this thread is wrong I just yesterday if I recorded everything I catapulted/trebbed you'd be proven wrong 999999 times over

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You clearly don't understand how to catapult using the broken mechanics that I have been dealing with while wrecking jk and bl and various old buildings on freedom deeds for the past year.

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On 9/12/2016 at 2:35 PM, JakeRivers said:

You clearly don't understand how to catapult using the broken mechanics that I have been dealing with while wrecking jk and bl and various old buildings on freedom deeds for the past year.

I do know how to catapult. I have been catapulting using this broken system.

 

You don't understand that it doesn't make any sense that you hit a longhouse, break one wall down move it over to the left or right with the same distance, and you try to hit the same wall and you miss without the message even showing saying you missed. This is with the same terrain moving the 1 tile over to the left or right.

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-1 make it more difficult.

 

Add in wind taking affect to the shot, as well as a slight randomness to the shot due to the uneven different shapes of shot fired.

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The current system does make debugging tiresome, and unfortunately even a small, minor bug can quickly grow into an irritant in pvp.

 

Perhaps something that shows what the game engine is doing under the hood. Just in terms of the range.

 

Plenty of "rangefinding" items already ingame, even craftable ones, that can be repurposed to display a quickie calculation for whatever the game is using for ballistic formulas.

 

Doesn't even need to be 100% accurate. Throw in some randomness correlated to ql.

 

Personally I'm against reverting to the old system. The current one is more funs in terms of considering elevation and all that good stuff. Just helps to ensure something wonky isn't going on, and having to craft some tool to do so sounds very Wurm-ish.

Edited by Klaa
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i like the arc system as it allows the skill to be more 'player skill' rather than 'ingame skill'. The problem is it means the ingame skill is a bit more useless, especially since damage is capped at 20.

 

I've always been for better messages when catapulting, the oddity's of catapulting I think is likely due to not 100% working out the mechanics, but I don't think the devs know exactly how to make effective use of catapulting to explain it to the players either. I do think it's possible to master it depending on placement + winches + elevation vs target elevation.

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Its not the worst but better messages at the very least would be hot. Like if you hit a plan or various intact components there should be a message for each thing hit. 

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