Posted September 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, rixk said: Would think otherwise, but chaos numbers dropped after yesterday's patch: http://wild001.game.wurmonline.com/mrtg/paying.html Interesting to keep an eye on numbers in near future.. PVP ban all day, numbers were low all day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, Zekezor said: Well here is the "ultimate list" for armour. (potential hp is a mix of effective hp and the average glance chance for the damage type) XL edition direct link: http://puu.sh/r5Eo8/8c938dcbfb.png Yeah, that effective health for crushing with plate seems way too low, considering how buffed medium mauls are and do almost/same damage as some 2h weapons The gaps between attack types in general seem too big, look in opposite direction and that buff for piercing in scale looks massive So it's kinda like... on epic (plate) mauls got a big buff (med maul meta), on chaos (drake) slashing got a huge buff (huge axe meta) Odd question... since burn/cold/acid are counted, which alters how most Mag/Vyn/Sorcery spells act, what about spells like tentacles, and BL spells that give infected, poison, or internal wounds? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, MrGARY said: Odd question... since burn/cold/acid are counted, which alters how most Mag/Vyn/Sorcery spells act, what about spells like tentacles, and BL spells that give infected, poison, or internal wounds? also there was no "huge" buffs or nerfs really. plate lost 15% vs crushing and drake lost 10% vs slashing. But with the highlight of what the glance rates does in combination with those values makes certain combinations painfully obvious ideal choices. However... If "med maul meta" catches on, then studded would pop up... which has double hp compared to other non-dragon alternatives. sidenote: metal-armour values are diffrent for moonmetals damage reduction, didnt include that. Edited September 9, 2016 by Zekezor 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 I have to say, Crushing to plate is a bit extreme, especially considering the damage that specific mobs that do it hit harder than most anyway. Just to clarify...this damage, it it damage to the armor piece specifically or is it put on the character? if so Plate is made to protect the human, yes it gets crushed for a reason. It's pretty much like the cars made today, they crumple to take the impact. Highly unrealistic that the player would take more damage than cloth in relation to crush if damage goes straight to the player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 3 hours ago, MAADposter said: have you tried it live? if youre going off WU code i don't think thats correct as you certainly are taking less damage than before pretty much across the board on live servers. Also, not sure why PvP is dead. It's a step in the right direction, less teleporting, more competition. Just need to fix meditation and hellhorses and deedspam and we will be back in the good days. The good old days???? I played in the good old days, when you needed to buy an account and scale to be realisticly competative and have 100+ gaurds on a szie 50+ deed. Wild died as it was not competative to new players. Same face forever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) edit Edited November 19, 2016 by JockII 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 9, 2016 With the BS DR change, overall basically everybody in PvP should've received a buff to their DR. The curve crosses the old linear progression in the high 70's for BS, so those in their 80's (if there are any) would've got a small debuff, but I asked around and I don't think anyone would be at that point currently. As you can see by alex's graph, the old progression made DR exponential as you got higher - so it's best to tackle that now before people get to that late stage with their BS. The armour values can be tweaked as we go, but I'd rather see how they go on live for a little bit before changing them. The crush debuff for plate might be slightly too high, but the BS DR change might balance that out in pvp. Just know I'll be monitoring it for the near future to see whats best - same deal for the dragon armours. EDIT: Keep in mind the BS DR change ONLY applies to damage on a player caused by another player. 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 Good stuff, finally hard numbers and solid info. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Budda said: EDIT: Keep in mind the BS DR change ONLY applies to damage on a player caused by another player. So the Body Strength change is PvP only, with the old exponential curve for PvE? The new armor DRs are for both PvE and PvP, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Darmalus said: So the Body Strength change is PvP only, with the old exponential curve for PvE? The new armor DRs are for both PvE and PvP, right? Correct. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 few accounts are over in the high 70s body strength that are active on pvp server, so they do exist just not that many. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 So, hell carts still got nerfed, with no actual reason given(Because people use them is not a reason), and the ship QL update seems to be disappointing as hell. Remind me again, what did this update actually add to travel? It screwed over those of us brave(stupid) enough to breed hell horses. Now, people like me need to keep a constant rotation of HH going instead the few for breeding and the 4 cared for ones on my wagon. And the boat travel update, at initial glance, seems to suck. 1km dif between a 40ql non rare Knarr and an 88ql rare knar. Ya, great job there. Not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 8 hours ago, Keenan said: Studded should be fine if you just want some protection when traveling. I actually need to get a new studded set myself. good vs all but scorps and hell hound bites, all bites i guess would get through. nothing on pve outside a rift uses frost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Greyfox said: So, hell carts still got nerfed, with no actual reason given(Because people use them is not a reason), and the ship QL update seems to be disappointing as hell. Remind me again, what did this update actually add to travel? It screwed over those of us brave(stupid) enough to breed hell horses. Now, people like me need to keep a constant rotation of HH going instead the few for breeding and the 4 cared for ones on my wagon. And the boat travel update, at initial glance, seems to suck. 1km dif between a 40ql non rare Knarr and an 88ql rare knar. Ya, great job there. Not. Boats might need a glance. 60 QL unrare knarr in gale with wind pve, 28. 81 QL rare same place same wind, 30. Forgive typing. Busted shoulder and all left hand lol no passengers. commander only. Edited September 10, 2016 by Audrel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 Thank you for all the hard work guys. Progress is definitely happening. I'm SUPER stoked to know that maybe we won't just see everyone in plate/drake now. Cloth tailoring needed some love for too long!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 16 hours ago, Alexgopen said: Hello forum alt. Tell me again how I'm wrong when all I did was read a graph given to us, itself which used natural logarithm. Also, I did not claim that high end accounts would be tankier than they were in the past, but rather that 70 bs accs are still tankier than 40 bs accs. All accs below about 77bs however WILL be tankier than they were in the past, according to the graph we were provided. You can try to twist the meaning of my words all you want but I will show you that you are just a troll forum alt every time. The graph given to us is wrong as well. If it was created by a dev, I'm not surprised. All of these changes to pvp except teleporting have been made without much thought or foresight. Look at the code (or just test it on chaos). Strength has been nerfed across the board, making the game not worth it at all for older players. Sure, newer players benefit. When chaos is new players vs new players and said new players quit after a week or two, chaos will be devoid of life yet again. To be honest, I think the devs could have spent more time fixing bugs than releasing this buggy patch and the buggy hotfixes after it, but I don't really think they care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, RIPPVP said: The graph given to us is wrong as well. If it was created by a dev, I'm not surprised. How is it wrong...? 14 minutes ago, RIPPVP said: Strength has been nerfed across the board, making the game not worth it at all for older players. How is it not worth it? (you mentioned its good for newer players, but you never said how its bad for older ones) From my "old player" perspective having more people to play with and fight against is a massive benefit to my gaming experience. Edited September 10, 2016 by Zekezor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zekezor said: How is it wrong...? How is it not worth it? (you mentioned its good for newer players, but you never said how its bad for older ones) How it's wrong: graph computed in the wrong base. Devs used a different base to compute the graph than the one in game. How it's not worth it: why bother going to PVP when the risk of losing your stuff is so high even if you've spent 8 years in game grinding your ass off for high strength, stamina, and skills? Why bother when a week old 70fs toon with 30 in weapon and shield skills is capable of going toe-to-toe with an 8 year old SOTG account with 70+ strength? This game isn't worth playing. (note: the week old vs sotg was tested :^) ) Edited September 10, 2016 by RIPPVP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RIPPVP said: How it's not worth it: why bother going to PVP when the risk of losing your stuff is so high even if you've spent 8 years in game grinding your ass off for high strength, stamina, and skills? Why bother when a week old 70fs toon with 30 in weapon and shield skills is capable of going toe-to-toe with an 8 year old SOTG account with 70+ strength? This game isn't worth playing. (note: the week old vs sotg was tested :^) ) Okay if you lose in that scenario then you obviously suck at pvp... like completely devoided of player skill (not "character skills")... which means this update is good becouse people without a single clue about pvp shouldn't automatically win no matter what and instead try to learn the game. With that scenario it would be HEAVILY in favor of the older account... like I honestly can't comprehend how you would lose in that scenario without majorly derping about... Like are you trolling or something? Edited September 10, 2016 by Zekezor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Zekezor said: Okay if you lose in that scenario then you obviously suck at pvp... like completely devoided of player skill (not "character skills")... which means this update is good becouse people without a single clue about pvp shouldn't automatically win no matter what and instead try to learn the game. With that scenario it would be HEAVILY in favor of the older account... like I honestly can't comprehend how you would lose in that scenario without majorly derping about... Like are you trolling or something? Hypotheticals and insults do not lend strength to your argument. Yes, the scenario I mentioned actually happened, and the SOTG character won, but just barely. The two had equal gear (80ql WA plate and an 80ql 80+ N/LT/CoC weapon) and the SOTG character won with 20% HP left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 (edited) *chuckles* Well either the RNG gods were not in the favor of the older account or the older accounts controller sucked. Ya see... in that scenario the older acc got 989% effective hitpoints in 80ql plate.... (minor effectiveness diffrenses may apply dependant on weapon type) Lets for the sake of argument assume the "week old" account had 30 bodystrength (which is unlikely)... Then that lil fella had 458% effective hitpoints... So from bodystrength and sotg alone (excluding all other supportive skills) the old account had 215% hp compared to the new account lol... Edited September 10, 2016 by Zekezor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 29 minutes ago, RIPPVP said: How it's wrong: graph computed in the wrong base. Devs used a different base to compute the graph than the one in game. How it's not worth it: why bother going to PVP when the risk of losing your stuff is so high even if you've spent 8 years in game grinding your ass off for high strength, stamina, and skills? Why bother when a week old 70fs toon with 30 in weapon and shield skills is capable of going toe-to-toe with an 8 year old SOTG account with 70+ strength? This game isn't worth playing. (note: the week old vs sotg was tested :^) ) You had me doubting myself briefly, so I double checked - the graph is correct. The code uses natural log, the graph uses natural log. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 31 minutes ago, RIPPVP said: How it's wrong: graph computed in the wrong base. Devs used a different base to compute the graph than the one in game. How it's not worth it: why bother going to PVP when the risk of losing your stuff is so high even if you've spent 8 years in game grinding your ass off for high strength, stamina, and skills? Why bother when a week old 70fs toon with 30 in weapon and shield skills is capable of going toe-to-toe with an 8 year old SOTG account with 70+ strength? This game isn't worth playing. (note: the week old vs sotg was tested :^) ) You are completely delusional and making up bulls. I have a 70str toon and I spared a few toons back to back for testing reasons. Spared a 60str toon a 50 str toon a 35 str toon a 40 str toon. And some if not all of these toons had similar weapon skill and LMS as I and I won in ever spar. At the same time we were testing the new at or balances and all I have to say is str beyond 75ish may lose its over all god complexion but it still sure has its are dmg modifier. Today I will test vs a mid 30s str sotg toon.. I will test vs a mid 40s sotg toon and a mid 50s sotg champ and I will see the out come. New armor DR and vulnerabilities.. Chain armor should have slashing and piercing swapped IMO. And good job on chain, a very viable suit finally. Have not tested studded yet but can the devs please add add and glimmer studs into the game please and for studded armor give 3/4 of the added DR. So 3% for daddy and 6 or 7 % for glimmer. Lastly plate armor is a bit harse vs crushing. Plate is still good but its just going to create a new meta. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 Just now, Zekezor said: *chuckles* Well either the RNG gods were not in the favor of the older account or the older accounts controller sucked. Ya see... in that scenario the older acc got 989% effective hitpoints.... Lets for the sake of argument assume the "week old" account had 30 bodystrength (which is unlikely)... Then that lil fella had 458% effective hitpoints... So from bodystrength and sotg alone (excluding all other supportive skills) the old account had 215% hp compared to the new account lol... with the old system: SOTG player: - 50% damage resistance from strength - 30% damage resistance from SOTG - 67.4% damage resistance from plate = 88.59% damage resistance 1/(1-.8859) = 876% base HP week-old account: - strength was around 23, so 3% damage resistance from strength - 67.4% damage resistance from plate = 68.378% damage resistance 1/(1-.68378) = 316% base HP So as you can see, after playing for 400x as long as the week-old account, the 8-year old account is not 400x better than the new account. This is fine. However, there is clearly a benefit to grinding forever. with the new system: SOTG player: - 25% damage resistance from strength - 30% damage resistance from SOTG - 67.4% damage resistance from plate = 82.885% damage resistance 1/(1-.82885) = 584% base HP week-old account: - 8% damage resistance from strength - 67.4% damage resistance from plate = 70% damage resistance 1/(1-.7) = 333% base HP Even with the modest disparity between an 8 year old account and a week old account in terms of "effective" HP, the player was still able to put up a good fight. So as you can see, the bonuses for having high strength have diminished significantly. Why play this game for more than a week when you get the majority of the damage resistance and combat rating, etc. within one week? Why risk losing your gear, your 99+ FS, your stats, etc. when a team of 2 nubs is more than enough to overpower a high end account? I am not interested in minecraft-style PVP where everyone is on a level playing ground regardless of how long they have been playing the game. I would rather switch to minecraft and leave wurm altogether than pay Rolf several euros a month for 8 years straight when there's no reason to play for that long. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Budda said: You had me doubting myself briefly, so I double checked - the graph is correct. The code uses natural log, the graph uses natural log. Then there is a bug. This should be addressed ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
