Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Zeno said: This thread is like 99% negative feedback with a handful of obvious shill accounts with 2-3 posts saying "durr this is good guize". How is this "fix" even still being considered at this point? How arrogant can you be to ignore your player base this much and think "nah, we know what's good for them". Frankly I despise hell horses but they are content that Rolf put in the game and then allowed players to use as mounts and for pulling carts. Now for Rolf to do this... it makes me wonder what really going on, what the real reason is for nerfing the crap out of hell horse use on carts, because I have to honest, I see no reason why Rolf would care what I think or any of the rest of us that don't like hell horses... the majority does and that makes this "fix" seem dubious even to me. I liked the OP because I appreciated the advance warning they gave players, but the nerf itself I think is questionable as to whether it will help anything at all.... but the last time I programmed anything besides my TV remote was 1978 so I don't have a clue honestly. Now if you want to consider me a shill because I hate hell horses and all the rest of that halloween inspired crap, go ahead. I'm not winning any popularity contest around here so it just doesn't matter. What does matter is this change coming tomorrow seems even to me to be a complete mistake, and if WO is a Business (and I'm beginning to have doubts that it is) then this decision is pissing customers off and that's never any good for business. (and if WO fails because of poor business decisions then my time in Wurm is done for I won't do business with Steam so this situation has my attention). Edited September 7, 2016 by geode 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, geode said: I liked the OP because I appreciated the advance warning they gave players Two days is not much advanced warning. Many people do not log in daily, and you can bet those people will also be upset when they do log in and find their hellies have come unhitched in their absence and ran away with their WoA shoes still on them. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Just now, Elizarya said: Two days is not much advanced warning. Many people do not log in daily, and you can bet those people will also be upset when they do log in and find their hellies have come unhitched in their absence and ran away with their WoA shoes still on them. Better than nothing... how many times over the years have they dropped this kind of stuff on us without warning at all? I was attempting to at least encourage them that "advance warning is good". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Just now, geode said: Better than nothing... how many times over the years have they dropped this kind of stuff on us without warning at all? I was attempting to at least encourage them that "advance warning is good". Just because something is slightly less BS than usual doesn't make it good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, Elizarya said: Just because something is slightly less BS than usual doesn't make it good We see it differently then. I'm just trying to do some positive instead of just being negative, which is my usual attitude. Under the circumstances I can see why you don't see this as I do. Enough said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Anyone with a hh cart/wagon parked out in the wilderness due to whatever came up will be sad when they log in to find there gear set missing, maybe a good time to hunt hh's and farm the horse gear sets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 We as customers should have a vote in changes...this so called bug that is in peoples advantage....this is not a gamechanger...i wonder who has the biggest voice in changes....the developers or the players. Well the answer is clear. But...who are the people that keep this game alive? Right...the customers...stop with ###### like this and listen to US! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) You might as well make hell horses unhitchable. If this change happens, I will kill all my hell horses and make space for normal ones. It is the only logical thing to do unless you can ride them I dont know if there are players who will have "Oh joy my hell horses are all aged now, time to replace them with young ones that will become aged before I even wink! And just thinking about rebranding and requipping them so often makes my pants jizzy fizzy!" moments after this change, but Id guess there arent many like that. People will have to breed and replace horses constantly, and nobody will even consider buying them. I am not a buyer or seller, I try to breed my own for my own use and even I am bothered, think about those who dont feel obliged to breed hell horses in order to use them. Please stop making this game harder and more of a chore for players who somehow stayed and kept playing and make it less of a chore and more of a game. Edited September 7, 2016 by Simyaci 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 What is up with you guys lately? It really seems like you're trying to make people quit this game we all try so hard to keep alive. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Toolhead said: What is up with you guys lately? It really seems like you're trying to make people quit this game we all try so hard to keep alive. Our chief still wears a potato sack for his cape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 It is puzzling the decisions they make on what to 'fix' and what to ignore despite the number of things that are true issues to smooth gameplay. I suppose there might be an actual reason to yank the rugs out from under us with this that makes sense, but in typical fashion they certainly have not communicated it to us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 On 9/6/2016 at 10:47 AM, DevBlog said: While there was discussion about simply allowing this to remain as is, it can often lead to frustration and confusion about hitching aggressive creatures, as well as errors regarding speed calculations on the server side. The Wurm team. 23 hours ago, Pingpong said: I'm confused about what bug is actually being fixed? I think the part in red addresses that. Albeit in a rather buried sort of way. 23 hours ago, Arium said: tho i gotta agree to others that theres problems a lot more severe to be adressed. Maybe this issue was a step on the ladder to addressing a greater issue? Some things are simpler to address than others, so the simpler things may get banged out quickly while the more severe take longer. Maybe while the more experienced crew is busy working on the more severe problems, this could be delegated to someone who had the time to address it. ************************************************************************** In the future, I think it would be helpful for the team to focus more on explaining the technical issue being addressed, and not so much the social side of "frustration and confusion." There are other ways to deal with the social side. If we were to remove everything that is frustrating and confusing... well, humans wouldn't have tools or fire It might do a lot to assuage player anxieties to share a bit more of the thought process behind these types of decisions, I think. It'll never appease everyone, but worth a shot imho. The devs may feel they need to be able to act without having to consult a committee, and I'd agree with that. However, there is a dedicated communications team and their job is made more difficult if the devs don't take the time to relay the necessary information to them. For the comms team: Just as an example of what you may want to throw at the Devs: How do errors in server side speed calculations affect players? Why is it important to remove these errors? Are any other facets of the game affected by these errors? Couldn't you just have made another pot of coffee and left this alone? Oh? Why not? As a comms officer, I think you have the right to push and press the dev team a little. Sure, they may be the pilots and get the glory, but ain't no pilot flying without the team of mechanics making it possible for those pilots to stay in the sky. You're the mechanics. Part of your job is to slap the pilots around a little and get the info to do your job as well as you'd like to, and as well as you deserve to. Go get 'em! Sidenote: The FAA has a motto... "We're not happy until you're not happy." Okay, that motto was actually coined by mechanics who deal with the FAA. Don't let that become what people think of the Dev Team. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 2 hours ago, sandokhan said: this is not a gamechanger I am afraid for me, this nerf IS a game changer. Not only is this the second nasty and unnecessary nerf within a week, it ruins quality of life for anyone that lives in mob hostile areas and/or travels a lot. I happen to do both. As of now I do not plan on renewing my subs directly as a result of this change. I am also strongly considering just selling everything I own off and leaving for good. This would include the supreme wagon pictured below, so if you might be in the market for one let me know. If you are worried the hellies may not last long enough to get it home, I can also hook you up with some bulls to use. According to Retrograde those are always a viable alternative. RIP supreme nerfwagon. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Why not make vehicles with hell horses hitched require 31 body control to command, just like you need to ride them? And/or require the hh to be tamed to hitch them(they'll need to be made non-aggressive once hitched for this to work). That way you still have the extreme effort, but just for a one time skill grind instead of for the rest of your wurm life. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, Elizarya said: it ruins quality of life for anyone that lives in mob hostile areas and/or travels a lot. Speed up mobs, slow down guards, make hell horses that can outrun mobs with a wagon undesirable... not to mention that mobs can hit you while you are moving but when it is your swing, they are too far away leaving you to get scratched to death while running or stop and fight even if you can't beat the circus train following you. Fix that. Make it so if a mob can hit you, you can hit the mob. If they are close enough to put teeth in your skin, they are close enough for you to put a sword in their teeth. That would be a useful fix though. It doesn't meet the current MO. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 On 9/6/2016 at 10:47 AM, DevBlog said: While there was discussion about simply allowing this to remain as is, it can often lead to frustration and confusion about hitching aggressive creatures, as well as errors regarding speed calculations on the server side. Frustration and confusion: You mean the same frustration and confusion that is experienced at each of these completely out of touch "fixes". Errors regarding speed calculations: Not that I want them this to be removed, but how is changing the age at which they can be hitched going to fix speed calculations? These "errors" don't exist from adolescent to aged, but from Old age to Death they somehow create issues? Ah, there's that confusion... Please, can someone with really high shipbuilding make Wurm Online a rudder? "A man without a goal is like a ship without a rudder." - Thomas Carlyle 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) On 9/6/2016 at 11:47 AM, DevBlog said: While there was discussion about simply allowing this to remain as is, it can often lead to frustration and confusion about hitching aggressive creatures, as well as errors regarding speed calculations on the server side. In this thread, it's about some speed calculations on the server side. Mechanical/Programming/Software issue. 8 hours ago, Retrograde said: The major issue here is the instant cries of "nerf!" without looking at the wide picture. currently Hell horses require zero additional skill to use vs regular horses, minus sourcing them from an animal breeder, they offer significant advantages and outpace any other creature. The issue with this is escalation, as time goes on it becomes the dominant strategy, and the obvious choice to the point where using regular horses is considered a waste of time, especially as hell horses become more prevalent. Someone who breeds hell horses will be able to supply themselves easily, with horses lasting about 2-3 months before needing to be cycled out, their work in breeding will not be wasted, as they can easily replace the horses in this time frame. As for why this bug at this time? We're in the process of moving from one bug tracker to another, as we do so, old bugs listed are raised, and we address many questions over them, some have already been allowed to remain as part of the mechanics (with neater coding) and others have been listed as bugs to be addressed. Some, like this, have been met halfway, with making allowances for it to continue as a feature, but also correcting and balancing the issue. This isn't the only change coming with the update, but we're aware that this one was better to inform players of before the update to ensure that they were prepared, and continue in improving communication with changes and updates. Over here, it's about a strategy that has become too dominant and must be nipped in the bud. There's no mention of the server and speed calculations here. It's "exploited use being halted." Do you see why people get upset? You say one thing here and something else somewhere else and there's not a single shred of common basis between the two of them. Edited September 7, 2016 by Audrel 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 My dream of the 5-speed bear cart was just nipped in the bud. At least they don't make horses unhitch after a certain age I suppose? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said: At least they don't make horses unhitch after a certain age I suppose? Nah they don't want to run out of nerfs all at once. That one is probably being saved for next week. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Sad they aren't boosting unicorns as they are already not used by anyone 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Unicorns are almost extinct! They are extremely hard to find in the wild and many people just kill em on sight. Let us at least equip them even if you arent going to let us hitch them, so that we have a reason to find them, breed them, ride around on top of them. By the way, if you are going to screw my hell horses, at least make sure you have all 5 speed traits Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 19 minutes ago, enoofu said: Sad they aren't boosting unicorns as they are already not used by anyone I will trade hell horses for colored unicarts so I can match the cart dye with the unicorn colors. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 10 hours ago, Retrograde said: Just as a follow up to some raised concerns.. Hell Horses will not unhitch if they age while being commanded. Having one suddenly turn old on you while out driving will not cause you to lose it. Except crashes don't give a dime on hell horses age. And you are disembarked when you crash. Or your cart/wagon gets stuck on a bridge, and you have to disembark and try to unstuck it. Or your cart/wagon freezes out of the blue, and cannot be moved anymore, and you have to disembark, and push, and pull, and puff, and ask for a friend, an alt, a stranger or a GM to help. And crashing/freezing/getting stuck happens. And happens. And happens. And .. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Oh nice I just jumped on the wagon and had to relog due to the 'embark' bug (has not happened to me for a few weeks so forgot all about it), one would of thought this would of been a better bug to fix. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 7, 2016 Just now, JakeRivers said: Oh nice I just jumped on the wagon and had to relog due to the 'embark' bug (has not happened to me for a few weeks so forgot all about it), one would of thought this would of been a better bug to fix. Problem is, solving it wouldnt have made the game more bothersome for you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
