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WSA: Hitched Aggressive Creature update

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Not sure why people are having problems, maybe it's bad rng or related to fight skill or something, but I doubt it because I don't have issues with enchanter alts, but I also take care of hell horses daily for a few years now, pretty much since implementation and they rarely ever attack me.  I do find ones that do tend to like to reattack unless you go a tile away and wait a few seconds or so before going back.  Regardless, I use/breed hell horses for years and never had any issues

 

Anyway, I do agree on fixing bugs, however... in light of something like using mooring ropes (bug) -> halter ropes (feature) as an example...  Lets go back to why we have this cr limitation on hitchable animals.  One day on Wild many years ago, MR used champ trolls on carts, and JK used champ crocs on carts.  It was funny, everyone laughed.  Although, some didn't like it and it was "fixed" by this cr limit.  This is long before hell horses were a thing, and hell horses don't really fit this criteria.  There is no difference that I know of really between young hitched hells and ven hitched hells, so for a win-win, change hell horses so they're always hitchable, but fix the bug and leave it applying to everything else as normal?  Bug is fixed and community loves the change?

Edited by MrGARY

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I do wonder how much of this "feedback" fits into the following categories:

1) This will impact me financially because I sell hell horses

2) This will impact me gameplay wise because I use hell horse carts/wagons

3) This does not impact me but I like being able to complain and declare all actions bad

 

Too often I see the sentiment "if we're loud and angry enough they'll change!" I hope this isn't the case here

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16 minutes ago, Fizziepop said:

Believe it or not, I would rather spend my time doing what I want to do, rather than what I have to do to stay mobile.

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

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7 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

 

Hell Horses are faster than perfect horses. That's the entire point of this thread.

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1 minute ago, Chakron said:

 

I'm glad they don't attack you that much, but they attack me a whole lot!

 

They also tend to bite at things when I'm riding by them. They even bite at me when I walk by. There is a convenience cost to using faster Hell Horses.

 

They do. They're also the easiest way to kill players/griefers on a Freedom server. Pretty easy to park your helly cart on someone and call it unintentional.

Totally exploitable bug. Why not fix this one? It seems to only work to help those of ill-intent, and totally inconvenience the rest of us.

 

 

 

Just now, Retrograde said:

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

 

I am Fizziepop, one of the biggest sellers of 5 speed new colored horses on Xanadu. I have no shortage of 5 speed horses and I love them all. There is simply no replacement for the speed of a helly cart when a cart is required. What higher tier is there than 5 speed ebony blacks?

 

For some things, there is no replacement but to use land route with a cart. Personally, spending 3 hours of travel time instead of 2 hours is an inconvenience.

 

Impacting sales of items that need to be hauled in a cart isn't good, this will only hurt the already struggling economy, and for some people who cannot breed their own, add to their costs of maintaining any kind of business.

 

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23 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

Why don't we spend a little time on extra fun for a change, I know this may be surprising to you, but some of us get plenty of Work in in the real world and don't play wurm like Second Life or some Intern job.

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17 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Silly or not that is what it was and long before any of this WU stuff but don't get me wrong there sure are better things that could be 'fixed' I'm just saying it was an obvious oddity and the idea that breeding them is difficult is just as odd

 

It isn't that leading the two horses together to breed is difficult. Annoying? Yes, that it can be but I would not call it difficult. What WAS difficult was the process of finding wild hellies on the steppes and dragging them back home, one at a time. Having to drop agro and try to get away long enough to cotton and then sometimes chase them down to recapture and lead them on for a short distance again so I could get them home. That was difficult.

 

What else was difficult was the endless cycle of spam breeding and culling I had to do to get those wild hellies bred into clean five speeds. I had to expand my already considerable sized deed to cover the ratio of doing this due to the huge numbers I was breeding hoping to get lucky and good traits. Also difficult was the grinding on channeling and faith I did on a nahjo priest (at the expense of another subscription) just to be able to cast genesis and remove the negative traits and put WoA on their shoes.

 

Difficult might not describe what I went through recently to relocate my hellhorse breeders when I moved, but frustrating definitely would. I recently just bred an entire set of replacement breeders so they were young enough to be hitched and could be moved, and then drove them (4 at a time) from Xanadu T17 overland to O22. This involved driving through Lormere and then NE around the mountains via Rome and then passing through Greymead and Whitefay before going south again. Each trip, which only moved 4 hellies, took me about 5 hours one way. I did this three times, sailing back to my old deed each time in a rowboat I built so I could make another trip, in order to be able to relocate them and continue to have and breed hellhorses for travel.

 

So yes, much of what people have gone through to have and breed these animals is and has been difficult. Stating that is isn't is like saying imping a weapon to 90 isn't hard because you just have to add some iron and hammer it; when the truth is that it is the process it has taken to be able to do it that is the hard part. To have to see all that hard work go down the toilet because of an arbitrary and unnecessary change frankly makes me irate. Travel is horrible in this game as it is, I could not imagine having to make the trip that took me 5 hours on a hellie wagon across overland Xanapoo like that using regular horses.

 

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1 hour ago, Retrograde said:

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

 

From the Community Relations Coordinator to one of the biggest horsebreeders of the community.

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does this mean im allowed to call towerguards on hell carts

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2 hours ago, Retrograde said:

That's simple, bison, bulls and horses are perfectly fine as cart haulers.

 

If you want to go faster, use a higher tier of horses, or reap the benefits from such, expect to have to put in extra work.

 

Travelling is always faster on horseback as opposed to a cart anyways.

 

We did put in the extra work. We bred 5 speed hell horses. We made rare/supreme carts. We made rare/supreme shoes. We exploded them and sacced ropes made from wemp that grown using farming and made worth saccing from grinding rope making then enchanted what didn't shatter as high as possible and then you suddenly decide "tomorrow morning, all of your extra work is worth nothing."

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Bah - Fork this "fix". Obviously just another move to lead to the slaughter of critters and reduce server loads.  I really hate investing so much time into the breeding, then taming skilling, just to discover it was all just a bug... for nearly a decade.

 

There are days I find it VERY difficult to have any interest in logging in to WO and just go do my own WU server, where the users make their own rules.

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1 minute ago, Wurmhole said:

Bah - Fork this "fix". Obviously just another move to lead to the slaughter of critters and reduce server loads.  I really hate investing so much time into the breeding, then taming skilling, just to discover it was all just a bug... for nearly a decade.

 

There are days I find it VERY difficult to have any interest in logging in to WO and just go do my own WU server, where the users make their own rules.

 

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature. ~Rich Kulawiec

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2 hours ago, Audrel said:

 

We did put in the extra work. We bred 5 speed hell horses. We made rare/supreme carts. We made rare/supreme shoes. We exploded them and sacced ropes made from wemp that grown using farming and made worth saccing from grinding rope making then enchanted what didn't shatter as high as possible and then you suddenly decide "tomorrow morning, all of your extra work is worth nothing."

Every one of those bar hell horses still works, and still give speed boosts.

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I gave up breeding Hellhorses some time ago and my main deed is an island, means Hellhorses are nothing I personally need in the game. But still, why does no one tell us what the intention of this change is? Why are you changing it? I would like to understand it. I am shure you did it not to just annoy your customers? So could someone of the team please tell us what the advantages of this change is? Two effects could happen: people give up hellhorse breeding or more people hold their own breeding couples to have a constant stream of young ones. How di these options help the server?

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The advantage is a bug is fixed.

 

y'know, like everyone is always demanding

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2 minutes ago, Sunstrike said:

Every one of those bar hell horses still works, and still give speed boosts.

 

Year long or more breeding program, secondary deed with no templar and sufficiently far from any guard towers, premiumed alts to get enough AH to care for breeders... None of that matters. It's only money. I still have my saddles.

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2 minutes ago, Sunstrike said:

The advantage is a bug is fixed.

 

y'know, like everyone is always demanding

 

An undocumented how in the hell are we supposed to know what is a bug and what is not "discovery of stuff is awesome!" but some time down the road we can say it was never intended because we kind of never said exactly what was intended so you just have to take our word for it bug is fixed.

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Careful Aud, next they will tell us that the 'Fleeter movement than normal' speed trait was never meant to help that much, it was only ever meant to give a minimal boost. The 'Carry more than average" speed trait was only ever meant to give a 1kg bonus, rather than 20kg. 20kg is just too heavy for a horse to hold.

 

All horse speeds are due to be nerfed next week, as they all move too fast.

"We want you CRAWLING around these maps people!" After all, bulls are "perfectly fine" to hitch to a cart. We should all be more than happy because we can hitch bulls.

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17 hours ago, DevBlog said:

...errors regarding speed calculations on the server side.

 

11 minutes ago, Fizziepop said:

Careful Aud, next they will tell us that the 'Fleeter movement than normal' speed trait was never meant to help that much, it was only ever meant to give a minimal boost. The 'Carry more than average" speed trait was only ever meant to give a 1kg bonus, rather than 20kg. 20kg is just too heavy for a horse to hold.

 

All horse speeds are due to be nerfed next week, as they all move too fast.

"We want you CRAWLING around these maps people!" After all, bulls are "perfectly fine" to hitch to a cart. We should all be more than happy because we can hitch bulls.

 

Seems to me anything that moves would be affected. I mean, a horse doesn't have the errors but a horse with flaming feet does? What about boats? They go faster than most carts in the right conditions, even hell horse carts. What about riding a saddled hell horse? It goes even faster than a hell horse cart.

And here's the best stretch of my logic for you, Fizzie... the server can handle the speed of an adolescent 5 speed hell horse with rare enchanted shoes and rare enchanted saddle pulling a rare cart but it just can't seem to handle those aged and old ones. It baffles the mind, but it's true!

 

Edit: Can't wait until the boat QL boosts boat speeds goes live and the server can't handle it and they get nerfed fixed.

Edited by Audrel

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Folks, while I get that many of you are upset by this change, please try to keep this constructive.  For example, suggesting alternative changes or explaining why the change is a problem for you (without resorting to name-calling or dev bashing) is more likely to achieve a useful outcome than sarcasm, general snarkiness and calling staff names. 

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5 hours ago, Sunstrike said:

I do wonder how much of this "feedback" fits into the following categories:

1) This will impact me financially because I sell hell horses

2) This will impact me gameplay wise because I use hell horse carts/wagons

3) This does not impact me but I like being able to complain and declare all actions bad

 

Too often I see the sentiment "if we're loud and angry enough they'll change!" I hope this isn't the case here

 

How about it makes no sense to say the server cannot calculate the speed of an aged or old or venerable hell horse but has absolutely no problem with the adolescent ones.

Edited by Audrel
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30 minutes ago, Pandalet said:

suggesting alternative changes

 

There's a huge forum dedicated to just that... how often does anyone actually look at what's posted and discussed there?

 

I really don't want to bash anybody... but what kind of logic goes into decisions like that? What kind of discussion happens inside the team?

 

"Hey how can we make our game more fun and get more people to play it?"

"Nerf hellhorses"

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Just as a follow up to some raised concerns..

 

Hell Horses will not unhitch if they age while being commanded. Having one suddenly turn old on you while out driving will not cause you to lose it.

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Who keeps pushing for these loss of QoL changes?

 

Rather than annoying the population with unneeded changes, why not be productive and work on something the population wants?

 

I would run out of fingers and toes counting what could be added...

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38 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Just as a follow up to some raised concerns..

 

Hell Horses will not unhitch if they age while being commanded. Having one suddenly turn old on you while out driving will not cause you to lose it.

Please explain further. Will they unhitch when you disembark? When the server restarts? When pumpkins ripen?

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