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WSA: Hitched Aggressive Creature update

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CA's can censor the responses all they like, the vast majority of the players do not want this "fix".

 

When you "fix" a bug that renders an entire part of the meta game worthless (hell horse breeding, hell carts, travel of any reasonable speed period), you really should be questioning the use of your time.

 

This is not a "fix" of any real caliber, since it breaks more than it fixes and really is a lowest common denominator "fix", especially when you consider the far more pressing bugs in the game.

 

It isn't a quick win or some low cycle issue... it was actually worthwhile to the vast majority of the player base and you've just lowered the qualify of life for all players because of the frustrations of a small minority.

 

As someone who actually does programming for a living, I wonder what, if any, quality control and life cycle philosophy you put into place, because the prioritization for "fixes" and changes to the game is mind boggling awful. I know I certainly wouldn't hire anyone who ignored their end users and followed such seemingly arbitrary development processes.

Edited by Zeno
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How silly i feel, i opened this thread hoping i can finally see an enhancement to animal hitching, maybe finally being able to hitch the useless champ brown bears to a cart just to show of my worthless Beastmaster title.. Ah well.. i'll get back on the forums in a month or two.. maybe i can find some other incentive to play daily again...

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Yeah, i really enjoyed my 'patch notes' humorous post going missing, along with every comment referencing it.

 

Good times.

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I am a relatively new player.  The fact that I still can't load a crate into a cart should tell you how new.  Tho I'm a noob, I'm not exactly clueless.

 

Two days ago, my cart got stuck in a bridge. I had to relog.

Yesterday, my sailboat vanished.  One moment it was there, the next it was gone.  I had to relog to see it again.

In two days of sailing around I can't even begin to count the number of times the server forgot where I was or how many times my horse was walking sideways to my direction of travel.

Yesterday, I had to have a GM assist me.  Apparently, I'm getting too salty in my old age... I couldn't drop or move salt in my inventory.

 

Now this 'bug fix' isn't really going to affect me.  I don't even have a 5 speed anything.  I have however, at one time, had a hell cart that I oh... found sitting on the side of the road and acquired.  And while the speed of that cart was handy for outrunning the countless mobs that could beat me senseless, the only frustration endured was that my wife eventually got tired of being bit and kicked in the head and got rid of them.  

 

So, as a new player, I'm not sure exactly how I was supposed to be confused or frustrated regarding hell horses.  I saw them as something to aspire to, even with the biting and kicking.

 

What DOES frustrate me is that I'm paying for a game that's as old as this one and it's still full of STUPID bugs, bugs bad enough that I have to relog and that my money is being pissed away by someone trying to justify their employment by 'fixing' crap that, from what I'm reading, DOESN'T NEED FIXING.

 

 

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anyone have a bear cart or troll cart post a image that sounds funny tbh

 

As for the post. My only feedback is, you might want to state what other "bugs" are going to be nerfed or removed so the player can move on eairler. Most hell horse breeders are probably very upset atm.

Edited by Niki
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I don't have anything to lose from this, but it strikes me a rather strange that you have animals that can be hitched at this age, but not this age (excepting when they are too young to pull anything). I can fully understand some animals being hitchable, others not. But having them change at a seemingly arbitrary point seems counter-intuitive.

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I breed hell horses but for personal and alliance use. I have never sold any nor have any plans too.  I give them away to my alliance mates and use them on wagons or carts. Not all the time either mostly for long hauls etc. So the actual impact to me personally is a minor frustration.

 

What confuses me the most about this lessening of "frustration" and "confusion" fix is that they solicited no customer feedback or ideas on how to fix it.

When it changes a large part of the existing game mechanics. (however unintended they left it in for who knows how long) 

 

Because according to them they had a lot of feedback about how older hell horses not being able to be hitched was causing frustration and confusion.

 

I do not see how this change in existing hitched hell horses lessens any frustration or confusion. 

^^People who do not know any better are still going to try to hitch older animals and still get the same message as they did before.

 

I do not see how them unhitching themselves as they age is going to fix the server speed calculation.

^^I guess anything is possible when you code wogic.

 

What other aggressive creatures can be bred and hitched without being tamed? Anyone know?

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It's taken me quite a while to breed 5 speed hell horses, and yes, they are a biting kicking pain in the rear, especially when someone brings them to a critter hunt or a server event.

 

I don't sell them, I have them for fun for me and friends and the speed is really lovely on a cart or wagon.  It's like the rare times you are sailing in a gale wind that is actually blowing the direction you need for speed.

 

I have 89ish animal husbandry, and a quantity of normal 5 speed horses for us, so it's not like I'm stuck or anything, but this fix depressed me so much I almost didn't bother to log in.  (yeah I know 'oh poor Dorian')  I play wurm for relaxation and silly fun, and this fix gets rid of some of my silly fun.

 

After this fix there is no way I'll ride on a hell cart/wagon.  I know exactly what will happen, I'll be trying to outrun a mob, and *bam* one of the horses gets to the unhitching age, and runs off slowing my cart to a crawl.  Of course knowing my luck both will mature at the same time and I'll be half a server away on a cart with no horses.  

 

On the positive side, the creature ratio for my little deed will go way up when I make Hell Burgers as I kill off my hell horses, and I wont get fire bruises when I get on my cart!  

 

On the negative side, now I have to think about doing five speed bison for my wagon, and I'll have no more fun pictures for the forums such as this one.

 

944QDoC.jpg

 

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I can't believe i missed out on the age of hellcarts.  I only got to ride in one once and it was thrilling (I know, right? Who knew that adjective could be used with wurm.  [Actually jumping off mountains without taking fall damaged used to be kind of thrilling too])

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Thrilling is the past, never the future here.

 

Business common sense lately is lacking. I'm not getting paid to tell you why, so you'll have to figure it out on your own apparently.  I have plenty of materiel to provide at cost to assist however...

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1 hour ago, Dorian said:

It's taken me quite a while to breed 5 speed hell horses, and yes, they are a biting kicking pain in the rear

 

After this fix there is no way I'll ride on a hell cart/wagon.  I know exactly what will happen, I'll be trying to outrun a mob, and *bam* one of the horses gets to the unhitching age, and runs off slowing my cart to a crawl.  Of course knowing my luck both will mature at the same time and I'll be half a server away on a cart with no horses. 

I`m the same. After returning from a break and falling in love with the updated HH model I spent months and a good chunk of my game time skilling up and starting with wild hells to create an almost max traited bloodline.

Now that I have the skills, I`m not losing out on a great deal as I`ll still use the HH as a personal mount, but it`s too great a gamble to travel long distance with a cart, especially since my playtime isn`t as much as it was. Travel to an ally deed, log off for a couple of days and come back to an immobile cart.

 

From the WSA, "While there was discussion about simply allowing this to remain as is, it can often lead to frustration and confusion about hitching aggressive creatures". I`m confused about what benefit the change actually is. We couldn`t hitch certain ages before, we still can`t. So how has the confusion and frustration been resolved? I`d also like to know exactly who and how many were 'confused and frustrated' about the fact that only younger hells were hitchable. It`s not rocket science...

 

It`s also interesting to note that there is no mention of the HH lightning movement trait. If I recall correctly, it was long acknowledged that it not switching off was a bug, yet it`s never been 'fixed'.

 

Call me cynical, but I suspect this change is an attempt to subtly move the role of hell horse to speedy mount, rather than widespread use as a cart/wagon puller

 
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Should add a nee trait to hell horses for freedom only. Domesticated, would need like 90 Animal husbandry but  it makes them no longer agressive. that would be a nice fix to traveling.

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How to provide a fix that is fixing essentially, nothing? I think you guys have got it down.

Sadly, that's also the same as How to p*** off your playerbase.

 

Problem:: Hell horses cause confusion because you can't hitch them past adolescent.

Solution:: You can no longer have them hitched past adolescent.
 

??????

Why?

Seriously, in all honesty -- what sense does this make?

 

 

Meaning:: Your investment is going to run away!! At some seemingly random time!! No-one is going to want an adolescent hell horse hitched, ever! They're only young for a week or so, after that, you'll need new ones. ""So, what names have you got on your hellies this week?""

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18 minutes ago, Fizziepop said:

Meaning:: Your investment is going to run away!! At some seemingly random time!! No-one is going to want an adolescent hell horse hitched, ever! They're only young for a week or so, after that, you'll need new ones. ""So, what names have you got on your hellies this week?""

They can be equipped with saddles, and they remain hitched until almost old. They can be hitched at young, adolescent, mature and aged.

 

They'll last on average 2 months before needing to be swapped out.

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6 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

They can be equipped with saddles, and they remain hitched until almost old. They can be hitched at young, adolescent, mature and aged.

 

They'll last on average 2 months before needing to be swapped out.

 

But why?

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Second highly controversial change in one week, seems like you guys really know what's best and what the community wants. How about you spend time working in the right direction and deliver/fix things things that have been asked for months with a majority support. 

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24 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

They can be equipped with saddles, and they remain hitched until almost old. They can be hitched at young, adolescent, mature and aged.

 

They'll last on average 2 months before needing to be swapped out.

 

 

You know that this isn't much better, right?

Aged is the longest time span, and also the hardest to predict when they will reach old. Or "almost old". Any aged horse will be questionable. Meaning the only reliable ages are young, adol or mature.

Somehow I doubt that is 2 months worth of use.

Edited by Fizziepop
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I don't understand the point of this change. I don't care if this was originally unintended, it is now a fair way of playing the game. Breeding Hell Horses is a difficult activity and it should be rewarded. This is reducing quality of life for no clear reason.

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I'm confused about a couple of things

 

I think people have forgotten that restarts used to unhitch everything and when this changed it removed the point of having the age restriction for hitching so logic would indeed suggest that perma hitched hellhorses after hitching age was not intended since they have the restriction to begin with. I don't really care either way hell carts always felt too fast and exploitish in some way to me but if that's what freedom likes its not my place to say otherwise, however...

 

The other thing I'm confused about is this whole 'difficult to breed' thing? how is it difficult? you lead one and hit breed just like any other horse, you don't need to have one tame you don't need to be a Nathan or Fo priest to not get agro... its not really any harder than breeding regular horses lol. I get that this has upset a lot of people but really if making arguments for and against they kinda need to have some truth and sense in their base.

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2 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

The other thing I'm confused about is this whole 'difficult to breed' thing? how is it difficult? you lead one and hit breed just like any other horse, you don't need to have one tame you don't need to be a Nathan or Fo priest to not get agro... its not really any harder than breeding regular horses lol. I get that this has upset a lot of people but really if making arguments for and against they kinda need to have some truth and sense in their base.

 

Last time I tried to breed my hellhorses I had to stop leading and step away 9 times before I could get it done. If they are attacking you, they interrupt the breeding process so often that it is easier to walk a few tiles away and no target, and try again. And again. And again. Annnd again.

This doesn't sound easy to you, does it?

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Well I breed hell horses on a daily basis and they don't attack me that much so yeah it all looks pretty easy to me or I wouldn't have an opinion.

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15 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

I'm confused about a couple of things

 

I think people have forgotten that restarts used to unhitch everything and when this changed it removed the point of having the age restriction for hitching so logic would indeed suggest that perma hitched hellhorses after hitching age was not intended since they have the restriction to begin with. I don't really care either way hell carts always felt too fast and exploitish in some way to me but if that's what freedom likes its not my place to say otherwise, however...

 

The other thing I'm confused about is this whole 'difficult to breed' thing? how is it difficult? you lead one and hit breed just like any other horse, you don't need to have one tame you don't need to be a Nathan or Fo priest to not get agro... its not really any harder than breeding regular horses lol. I get that this has upset a lot of people but really if making arguments for and against they kinda need to have some truth and sense in their base.

Um I am pretty sure that was a bug, I mean if a restart unhitched my wagon and cart all the time, I would be looking for a wurm unlimited server that did not do that or another game because that is just silly.

 

I am not sure how that not hitching at x age is the same as unhitching themselves at x age because by golly I have been in this harness all my life and I ain't gonna pull your crap one more tile....  is an actual thing....

 

None of the above "fix" is gonna slow down how fast a hell cart is, not unless the dev have some other nerf..I mean fix they did not put in the notes.

 

I also want to add, age restriction on any other aggressive animal...does matter when they unhitch as soon as tame/charm/domi wears off. I feel that is a completely different beast. 

 

last edit:P

 

How does the WSA as stated do ANYTHING to lessen frustration or confusion? How does it address the bug stated about server side speed calculations?  It looks like it is going to create MORE confusion and frustration. Heck it already has. and does nothing to alleviate the server side speed calculation because I can still hitch 2 mature 5s hell horses with ql90+ gear 90+ woa and fly down the road like a demon on fire.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?;)

Edited by Saicotic

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I was referencing being attacked 9 times sounding easy, not your own experiences -- they obviously sound easy or you wouldn't be saying 'oh this is easy'.

 

I was pretty surprised when it happened so many times. Usually it's just 2 or 3 times, but when it happens 9 times in a row trying to breed the one pair, patience tends to wear thin. It makes the next time it only happens 2-3 times a lot more tedious than it would have been before. I don't like breeding hell horses anymore. Every time they attack me it bring up the whole "How many times are they going to attack me this time?" question. Which is really a "Is this going to take me alllll day?" question.

 

Believe it or not, I would rather spend my time doing what I want to do, rather than what I have to do to stay mobile.

 

This change adds tedium and unreliability. Nothing more.

If they're going to change something about the hell horses, make it so bred ones are tamer. The longer the bloodline the more chance of being less aggro. Or longer bloodlines can get an extra trait, as was suggested, to reduce aggro levels. Or add a priest spell like Genesis that can alter the aggro levels. I don't really care how they do it, but something needs to be done to reduce the tedium and balance it out.

 

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Silly or not that is what it was and long before any of this WU stuff but don't get me wrong there sure are better things that could be 'fixed' I'm just saying it was an obvious oddity and the idea that breeding them is difficult is just as odd

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14 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Well I breed hell horses on a daily basis and they don't attack me that much so yeah it all looks pretty easy to me or I wouldn't have an opinion.

 

I'm glad they don't attack you that much, but they attack me a whole lot!

 

They also tend to bite at things when I'm riding by them. They even bite at me when I walk by. There is a convenience cost to using faster Hell Horses.

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