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Nadroj

Rare chances...Did Rolf slip on the zero key?

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I've wondered this a while and figured....well i wonder how many others have looked at the code and realised how odd this is.


In the WU code and almost certainly the same in WO. Rare chances are as follows on an improving roll (i won't go into how uncommon those are here it's not my point):

 

Rare 1/5

Supreme 1/25

Fantastic 1/9700


WHAT!?

Fantastic should be super rare, but the chance is insane for what they do, they're marginally better than supreme for that crazy crazy small chance. Am i the only one who thinks 9700 is extreme?

Edited by Nadroj
Grammar Nazi-ing myself
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Not sure, made a fantastic rock shard once, and dozens of supreme rockshards/ores/logs, maybe the odd supreme plank or peg, but tonight my first true supreme item!

 

XxiNcvO.jpg?1

 

 

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Frankly I think rares and too common these days, as much as I love them. Maybe increase fantastic but lets reduce the chance of supreme and rare.

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ive only made 2 supremes in my whole time >_< Ive done ALOT of imping when i was on chaos as we were needing the throw away tools.

 

Recently it seems like im getting less rolls, even with the maxed deed bonus.

Edited by Nicrolis

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I've only ever imped one thing supreme, my longbow. Always been random dirts and rocks otherwise, never seen a fantastic that wasn't an artifact and....i play....a lot

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you guys are lucky to even see those things i dont have much of a bonus being a new player but i get tons of successful rare rolls while raking fields but have only gotten a supreme coin and it gave me shiite all as a reward for saccing it.. so .. i wish i got more rares made but i am yet a young player at 8 months i guess..

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The thing that gets to me is the incredible amount of ###### rares we get. Sowing, Tending, cutting Grass, Foraged Items hell even Praying i wouldn't be suprised if we spamed emote fart enough times we'd get a rare roll on that as well.  Most of these should be removed from the rare roll.  Seriously wtf good is a rare prayer? Do we get extra faith? Hell no, no benifit and a wasted roll.

 

Some folks say They don't count against creation / imping rolls, personally till someone decodes WO code and points it out, i call bs on that as well.  How many of us go and imp or create stuff for a whole day with Zero rolls,  then tend the fields and get multiple rare rolls? ( come on show of hands how many of you thats happened to ) to me it seems that some actions have a higer rare chance than others. Seriously wtf good is a rare prayer?  really? come on gimme a freakin break.

 

5 hours ago, Nadroj said:

Rare 1/5

Supreme 1/25

Fantastic 1/9700

 

Code is more like Rare 1/5  .... Add ... CrappyStupidAction + 300 %

 

Yes i agree rare success Should be rare but the way it's now hell you'd be Lucky to get a rare on something worth while and thats the way it should be, Not impossible. 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Stormblade said:

wasted roll

 

This is an incorrect sentiment. As all rolls are independent from each other - you can't really "waste" them.

 

If you get a rare kindling now, this in no way affects your chances to make a rare pickaxe 10 seconds later.

Edited by bdew
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This is why i wasn't gonna bring roll frequency into it. Just wanted to comment on the odd chances for the 3 types of rare.

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Best is rare roll while imping and you stop for a drink of water, rare drink!

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32 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Best is rare roll while imping and you stop for a drink of water, rare drink!

 

rare rolls being possible to fail the imp is my favourite. First roll in 3 hours and you damage >.<.

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5 hours ago, Aeryck said:

Frankly I think rares and too common these days, as much as I love them. Maybe increase fantastic but lets reduce the chance of supreme and rare.

 

This.

I can't blame other people, like the tendency seems to be for my lack of rares, since I don't craft/imp as much as I'd like to.

But I do get rare rolls, every week, sometimes every two weeks, supreme dirts because I dig a lot.... supreme shards, I mine... this doesn't matter, the chance occurred.

 

If I look at the list of 20+ rare items people are selling all the time, I can't help to agree with Aeryck, it's too simple, too often. But I won't go into my idea of how this is occuring, not on the toxiforums

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Personally the numbers looks proper, but that's just me.

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13 minutes ago, Klaa said:

Personally the numbers looks proper, but that's just me.

 

1/9700 klaa

 

1/9700.

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I understand how it is normal to yearn for something rare or beautiful. In that respect, surely Rolf has got things right  I also regularly browse the merchant adverts and see no shortage of people making a nice Wurm living out of selling their items. If the chances are changed- even to only the 'fantastic' rolls- this may change the way that people see rare items and the value that they place on them.

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FWIW here's how it works:
every second you get a 1 in 3600 chance to get a rare roll window - the 20 seconds + deedbonus (btw this doesn't make it "one per hour" on average, it makes it "one per 1.6 hours" on average).

If you start an action in that time, the game checks if you have a rare roll:

1.03 out of 10000 for a fantastic (that's the 9700)

4 out of 100 for a supreme

1/2 for a rare

Otherwise nothing.

Only when you get that, you get the rare roll animation. And if the action is imping, there's a 1 out of 5 chance on top of that, to increase rarity of the imped item. So with imping, it's not 1/9700, it's 1/(9700*5) = 1/48500 :)

 

If you're not prem, the numbers are slightly different: 1/10000 fantastic (not 1.03), 1/100 for a supreme (not 4/100).

So yes, I do think that this is a mistake, with how little premium does for fantastic vs for supreme.

 

Relevant code






            float faintChance = 1.0f;
            int supPremModifier = 0;
            if (this.isPaying()) {
                faintChance = 1.03f;
                supPremModifier = 3;
            }
            if (Server.rand.nextFloat() * 10000.0f <= faintChance) {
                rarity = 3;
            }
            else if (Server.rand.nextInt(100) <= 0 + supPremModifier) {
                rarity = 2;
            }
            else if (Server.rand.nextBoolean()) {
                rarity = 1;
            }

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Sure...post the code that i was too lazy to post. Make me look bad! I'll be in my corner.

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Chances may be alright, but apart from shining, rarity effect on most items sucks.

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3 hours ago, Retrograde said:

I'm surprised no ones checked out KangaWU

 

Whats so special about KangaWU

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5 hours ago, Nadroj said:

 

1/9700 klaa

 

1/9700.

 

Hmm, well. Okay maybe it needs more zero's

 

1/97000000

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I will just throw this out there....  Creating the concept of rares has isolated the market for most non-bulk items to players who are focused on pure grind for hours on end to get rares because mostly only rare items sell - and for what gain to the buyer or seller?  The benefit to the buyer is minuscule compared to non-rare items and the price paid hardly outweighs the tons of effort the seller put into producing it.  Basically, whoever grinds the most sells the most.  That's not how an economy should be in an MMO.  Everyone ought to be able to craft what they want and be able to sell it for a profit.  But this is just one problem with the Wurm economy model - everyone CAN pretty much craft ANYTHING they want, so no economy at all except for these time-sink items known as rares and a few naturally rare armors and trinkets.  The longer the "old" player-base drags on, the more acute this problem becomes.

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Awesome explanations, and thanks for the code snipper asdf. Pretty awesome. :)

Some good points Eyesgood, but it's posts like that help improve the system. Years of adjustments, a post like this, may lead to a tiny adjustment... etc. So always a good thing to discuss it, especially of logical conclusions from the thread. Just hope the read it, and that little bulbs of ideas come on...

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So, fantastics are nearly 2000 times more rare than rares...

Shame they don't have some fancy bonuses to match. (although that might not be a good thing either...)

 

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