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Nadroj

Rare chances...Did Rolf slip on the zero key?

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I like how this topic is hot a year after being made heheh

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4 minutes ago, Angelklaine said:

If you want to piss.Nadroj off, just hide his shovel.

 

 

You foolish man, you think i have one shovel? I carry 3 one for levelling, one for speed and one for highest QL production. Same goes for pickaxes :D

Edited by Nadroj

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1 minute ago, Kurson said:

I like how this topic is hot a year after being made heheh

 

tbf i made it originally and i necro'd it today lol.

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I'm still waiting for that Fantastic knarr. 

 

 

yes, well my mother always did say You might as well dream big while you're dreaming.  :)

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I made a fantastic mortar and accidentally used it in a house wall while someone was PMing me to buy it lol

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Numbers seem okay... most tools (all if you include mend) can't be destroyed unless their user is very very careless about damage. When a rare is made, it stays. when supreme is made, it stays. 1/9700 insures the world wouldn't be filled with fantastic stuff.

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18 minutes ago, Yiraia said:

Numbers seem okay... most tools (all if you include mend) can't be destroyed unless their user is very very careless about damage. When a rare is made, it stays. when supreme is made, it stays. 1/9700 insures the world wouldn't be filled with fantastic stuff.

 

No it ensures that there are almost none at all. As evidenced by years of noone making them. I saw one once, it was a rock shard. Everyone acted like they'd seen God because it was that rare. It was a damn rock shard!

 

I feel like not enough people are appreciating how insane the chance is. Does everyone in the game own 20 supreme items? those are 1/25. You know how many times easier than 9700 that is? 388! I mean...i just....how many times and ways can i say:

Get rare roll, succeed imp/creation roll, then succeed 0.0103092784% chance and hope to god after all that you were working on something you actually care about.

Edited by Nadroj

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1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

 

No it ensures that there are almost none at all. As evidenced by years of noone making them. I saw one once, it was a rock shard. Everyone acted like they'd seen God because it was that rare. It was a damn rock shard!

 

I feel like not enough people are appreciating how insane the chance is. Does everyone in the game own 20 supreme items? those are 1/25. You know how many times easier than 9700 that is? 388! I mean...i just....how many times and ways can i say:

Get rare roll, succeed imp/creation roll, then succeed 0.0103092784% chance and hope to god after all that you were working on something you actually care about.


Isn't that... the point?  I mean there are THREE TIERS of the rarity system.  Why is there any reason for the highest tier to be anything other than legendary?  Not that this should matter much anyway, because of the contrived nature of the rarity system in the first place.  Items that are created or imped rare are only "rare" because the system rolled a die and BAM now it's glowy and ######.  There's no player-input; the rarity comes from nowhere.  Shouldn't there be at least one level of rarity that isn't grind-able?  If you're trying to make a fantastic, then you'd just be wasting your time (though obviously your personal goal seems to raise a contradiction there, lol).

 

Idk rare is rare, supreme is frikkin rare, and fantastic is, well...  good luck ever even seeing one in person, let alone making one.  What's wrong with this model?

 

If I were you, I'd argue that you should be able to trade your personal goal in for one more reasonable. :P

Edited by Fireflyb
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You literally just described what's wrong with it...

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Years ago, I saw someone selling a Fantastic Mortar, I thought, 'Sure i'll buy it' at the time, the only real use for mortar was concrete, so I bought it for 50c.  Roll ahead another year and marble brazier pillars came out.  So I busted out that Fantastic Mortar I'd been saving all that time and was super excited to make a brazier pillar

 

Yeap you guessed it... failed.

 

That was the only time i'd seen anything remotely useful as far as fantastic items.

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On 6/29/2017 at 4:07 PM, Arium said:

i havent gotten a supreme meal/cooked food since the update, is it even possible?

 

On 6/29/2017 at 4:13 PM, Jaz said:

I think rare food is not possible - it was why I brought it up as my example


As someone who had been working on cooking overall skill for about a month and a half after the cooking update...I made around x10 rare breakfasts, x3 supreme breakfasts. I had been attempting to trade them/sell them for a few coppers for other people to use for sacc bonus until someone messaged me telling me that food doesn't even give the sacc bonus unless it's 'full weight' (So my single item breakfasts didn't count) and I sacced one to check and they don't. So basically I was being given useless rares and being tricked into tricking other people into buying something that didn't do what was a 'known' mechanic...I certainly wasn't doing that on purpose...trying to sell something that didn't function as advertised... (I already thought rare food items were useless.)

 

To add to this, the only supremes other than a plank and a clay or 2 and the ubiquitous rock shards that I've received the whole time I've been playing is foraged goods (I was the proud owner of a supreme potato, supreme onion, and one other I forget.). I've been playing for nearly 3 years.

They really need to remove food/water from the rarity table. Also things like 'chipping a tree' (You don't even get anything from a rare roll where you chipped a bit out of a tree.), tending fields, or a few other totally wasted rarity roll actions.

I feel really bad for the poor 'sap' who got a fantastic maple sap/syrup on our server.

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When I heard about the rarity system I thought you got rares as a first stage, and had to imp the item to get a higher level.  That would de a better system if it had a chance around what supremes have, for all levels.

Creation spammers won't get much so the rares remain rare, and you could actually work toward a fatastic by using the item to damage it and then reimping it for the rarity chance.

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I think the values are ok. Fantastic is supposed to be very rare.

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2 minutes ago, Sklo:D said:

I think the values are ok. Fantastic is supposed to be very rare.

 

I feel like a broken record here but

 

very rare - yes i agree

practically impossible - which is what we have - i disagree.

 

Why? 

 

1) because what's the point in having them if they're almost never in the game at all

2) fantastic status is not some mythical amazing thing that makes an item 1000x better. It's about 2x better than rare in most respects.

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1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

2) fantastic status is not some mythical amazing thing that makes an item 1000x better. It's about 2x better than rare in most respects.

Exactly, so the only thing fantastics have going for them is rarity.. you make it any easier and 2 years down the road everyone has their fanta axe, which isn't even any special, but new players feel like they have to get it cause everyone has one. When wurm already takes a bunch of money if you want to 'catch up' or whatever.

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3 minutes ago, Kurson said:

Exactly, so the only thing fantastics have going for them is rarity.. you make it any easier and 2 years down the road everyone has their fanta axe, which isn't even any special, but new players feel like they have to get it cause everyone has one. When wurm already takes a bunch of money if you want to 'catch up' or whatever.

 

I...don't even have the words to delve into this line of thinking...just...what?

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1 hour ago, Kurson said:

Exactly, so the only thing fantastics have going for them is rarity.. you make it any easier and 2 years down the road everyone has their fanta axe, which isn't even any special, but new players feel like they have to get it cause everyone has one. When wurm already takes a bunch of money if you want to 'catch up' or whatever.

 

35 minutes ago, Kurson said:

Nice argument :D

What the hell, I'll take a crack at it. 

From what I've gathered Nad's point is that Fantastic difficulty doesn't reflect its value atm. 
A Fantastic item is maybe twice as good as a rare atm, but is 1000 times more difficult to create(someone check that maths, its incorrect I'm sure). 
It's so difficult that Fantastic items of value aren't just rare, they're virtually non-existent. 

You could drop their creation difficulty significantly without flooding the market.
Alternatively, you could up their actual value, the amount that they're better than regulars or rares, to reflect how difficult they are to make.

Fantastic items aren't just "rare" atm, they're practically an impossibility... compounded by the fact that rare rolls can happen during useless actions.

I'm pretty tired, but I think that made sense anyways.
TL:DR - Fantastic items can become WAY easier to make without flooding the market.(and they should) 

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Thanks for that, honestly i've just become a bit exhausted with trying to get my point across repeatedly with this.

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8 minutes ago, Matholameu said:


A Fantastic item is maybe twice as good as a rare atm, but is 1000 times more difficult to create(someone check that maths, its incorrect I'm sure). 
 

5000 times rare for free players, 4850 times rarer for premium? think my maths is right

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So we all agree lol, I said the same thing earlier :) no need to get upset

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There seems to be a big disconnect in understanding the difference between making something easier and making something easy. Noone here wants fantastic items to be easy, only made more reasonable.

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1 hour ago, Kurson said:

So we all agree lol, I said the same thing earlier :) no need to get upset

Wasn't upset. Believe me you'll know when I'm upset because I'll be spewing a bunch of senseless BS. :P

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There's probably Fantastic items out there that are useful, like swords, boats, armor... it's just that the player is so excited they drop dead from a heart attack and we never hear about those items.

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