Remove karma porting to a deed thats under attack for 8 hours

[bloodmaster 318]

19 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

Well you keep insinuating that the only way people get around chaos is by karma port, when the only time it is used is when people do not want to spend 30 minutes riding around chaos to get to a location for some pvp action, especially when the attackers dip out after a few minutes. If you had to ride there, by the time you showed up they be all gone by then.

 

I can understand your fear of wanting to have to deal with the pvp aspect though, it is risky raiding a deed when people may show up and defend the deed.

I'd love people to turn up for chance of pvp. When they teleport into the middle of a safe deed instead of being forced to be out of the deed to get in, there is very little chance and it ends just being a repairer preventing pvp happening.

[Pingvinen 52]

-1.

I suggest lower the cost of karma teleport and remove the delay timer after joining a village and there will be plenty more of PvP on the server.

[Dalvin 61]

Let's be honest the Jk +1s are because they have about 5 deeds left all barely out of local of each other and connected by short tunnels.  MR has advanced to your doorstep but you know what some of us like to actually return to our home deeds every once in a while.  Now if you want to talk mechanic changes a cap on deeds per alliance and chaining influence would be more sensical to promoting a more dynamic map.  Honestly I don't think any of this should change unless JK can break MRs stranglehold by their own efforts first.

[MrGARY 12,421]

On 8/24/2016 at 5:21 PM, Propheteer said:

lets also not pretend here that a certain kingdom who benefits from the current mechanic also has an overwhelmingly large population.

 

This is the problem I have in general with certain balances.  Are they balanced for kingdoms with 5 active players, or 10 active players, or 30, or 50?  Is this spell being balanced for one priest per side, or 3, or 5, or 10?  Etc

 

As I've always said abusing teleporting to defend random wardeeds is pretty dumb and I don't like that idea.  I think if its your deed you live in then you should be allowed to teleport in though

 

Like, require being a villager for 24 hours before you can teleport in IF the alarm has been triggered by an enemy player/pet (not same kingdom kos or wild mobs/valrei) so to allow teleporting for non-pvp reasons as there are plenty of those.

Does it fix all problems?  Clearly no.  Does it favor somewhat living in the village to defend it?  Kinda. Is 24 hours a small requirement?  Yes.  But.... it's a small change that sort of favors two sides of the coin and makes sense to me to try out and see what happens?

[Zekezor 3,188]

9 hours ago, MrGARY said:

 

This is the problem I have in general with certain balances.  Are they balanced for kingdoms with 5 active players, or 10 active players, or 30, or 50?  Is this spell being balanced for one priest per side, or 3, or 5, or 10?  Etc

 

As I've always said abusing teleporting to defend random wardeeds is pretty dumb and I don't like that idea.  I think if its your deed you live in then you should be allowed to teleport in though

 

Like, require being a villager for 24 hours before you can teleport in IF the alarm has been triggered by an enemy player/pet (not same kingdom kos or wild mobs/valrei) so to allow teleporting for non-pvp reasons as there are plenty of those.

Does it fix all problems?  Clearly no.  Does it favor somewhat living in the village to defend it?  Kinda. Is 24 hours a small requirement?  Yes.  But.... it's a small change that sort of favors two sides of the coin and makes sense to me to try out and see what happens?

You raise good points gary.

A 24h cooldown after joining a deed would be a sufficent first step to try out. (possibly final step)

If the playerbase feels it's not sufficent after trying out the implementation then the issue could be brought up again if need be.

But for now I think it's good enough as a solution to try out.

[Propheteer 7,139]

9 hours ago, Dalvin said:

Let's be honest the Jk +1s are because they have about 5 deeds left all barely out of local of each other and connected by short tunnels.  MR has advanced to your doorstep but you know what some of us like to actually return to our home deeds every once in a while.  Now if you want to talk mechanic changes a cap on deeds per alliance and chaining influence would be more sensical to promoting a more dynamic map.  Honestly I don't think any of this should change unless JK can break MRs stranglehold by their own efforts first.

 

it's been suggested long before that was the case, JK deeds just have never been built with no connecting infrastructure, most MR deeds have been built with the same design and no infrastructure.

 

Sure it benefits us, but we are also trying to get actual PvP, not Player v Plain Stone Wall

[Dalvin 61]

Better request for the devs, post some statistics for how often teleport is used?  I think most JK members might be surprised.

[bloodmaster 318]

2 hours ago, Dalvin said:

Better request for the devs, post some statistics for how often teleport is used?  I think most JK members might be surprised.

As a JK member I would love that. 

 

If it's MR using it the most then it proves our point of big kingdoms able to overextend deeds and use teleport to get in. That is why they would be so against it.

 

However if JK use it the most it benefits MR to remove it as it allows them to not face as many defenders at a deed teleporting in and shows we are willing to give it up if we use it the most for the greater good of the game. Your point is? 

[Dalvin 61]

Point is very simple, so simple even a JK member should understand.  I believe JK likes to inflate the amount of times MR uses karma porting.  If it is an ability that is not being used to transfer massive amounts of people around purely in response to raid events then there is nothing wrong with it, the occasional strategic use IE a large group doing it en masse every few months or so and a random scattering of people doing it on a more frequent basis to various locations means its not a broken mechanic.  Just because JK says something doesn't make it so, in fact JK players have a tendency to outright lie about things and expect the rest of the community to take it as gospel truth.  Back on topic will a dev please provide some statistics on the use of this ability?

[changer 459]

2 hours ago, Dalvin said:

Better request for the devs, post some statistics for how often teleport is used?  I think most JK members might be surprised.

why would the amount of times it's used matter, would you be okay with the devs giving away permanent one-shot weapons that can only be used once per week? It's the theorethical application of the mechanic that matter, and the practical outcome of course, karma and generally all metagaming mechanics are anti-player input, no matter what you do the defender will always be able to teleport into the deed, so there's no point in applying strategies like encirclement to force the enemy to put themselves at a disadvantage if they want to defend, if you want less emphasis on player & group skill then you'll want as little metagaming mechanics as possible 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

8 hours ago, Propheteer said:

it's been suggested long before that was the case, JK deeds just have never been built with no connecting infrastructure, most MR deeds have been built with the same design and no infrastructure

 

I seen lots of jk deeds go down with roads/tunnels in place and a bunch that didn't have this, for the most part they didn't even bother helping there members defend them even with the magical infrastructure in place, quite a few quit playing over this I am sure. 

gotl

memes

fort osigoth

vahalla

some wall

furious gulf

tarter sauce

ace a

rooty

 

Plus a bunch of random spam deeds, this is just in the past year or so, I might of missed a bunch more names there are so many jk ruins out there it is hard to keep count, but you get the point, they could of teleported into these deeds with ease to defend but they didn't, so if its such a powerful tactic for defending deeds, why did jk not use it?

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by JakeRivers

[EvaDaly 359]

This is about Karma Porting right? Right now is cost what 1000 karma to port over, and Enemy block it, right? You can get karma so many ways if you know where to look and what to do. Some people have so much karma that it is not even funny. Either make Karma harder to get, or make the Karma that you need to town port more.  

 

When you revoke a village to join another you have 24 hours before you can do that again. I don't know, call me crazy if you want, make it that you can join another village in that 24 hours but you can not village teleport for 48 hours to prevent the abuse of it. 

 

I am not here to take anyone side on anything. I just want the fun to be back in this game. 

 

 

[Postinglels 1,270]

16 minutes ago, EvaDaly said:

This is about Karma Porting right? Right now is cost what 1000 karma to port over, and Enemy block it, right? You can get karma so many ways if you know where to look and what to do. Some people have so much karma that it is not even funny. Either make Karma harder to get, or make the Karma that you need to town port more.  

 

When you revoke a village to join another you have 24 hours before you can do that again. I don't know, call me crazy if you want, make it that you can join another village in that 24 hours but you can not village teleport for 48 hours to prevent the abuse of it. 

 

I am not here to take anyone side on anything. I just want the fun to be back in this game. 

 

 

 

A bug was being abused to reset the cooldown on joining another village hence my call for harsher requirements.

 

 Also currently while karma porting is largely difficult to activate while in an enemies local , its quite simple to teleport into an enemy local, usually a besieged deed thereby  bypassing any barricades setup by the assaulting side and nullifying any skill requirements on behalf of the defenders. And to those who suggest that karma porting into a besieged deed is pvp it really isnt. In the rare circumstances where the the defenders are out matched by the catapulters all they have to do is log off in a secure on deed safe mine or stealth walk off deed and karma out lol. Such pvp 

[Zekezor 3,188]

37 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

I seen lots of jk deeds go down with roads/tunnels in place and a bunch that didn't have this, for the most part they didn't even bother helping there members defend them even with the magical infrastructure in place, quite a few quit playing over this I am sure. 

gotl

memes

fort osigoth

vahalla

some wall

furious gulf

tarter sauce

ace a

rooty

 

Plus a bunch of random spam deeds, this is just in the past year or so, I might of missed a bunch more names there are so many jk ruins out there it is hard to keep count, but you get the point, they could of teleported into these deeds with ease to defend but they didn't, so if its such a powerful tactic for defending deeds, why did jk not use it?

 

 

I wasn't around when either of those deeds fell.

But when I was around we often gathered groups and rode in to defend a deed togheter.

And not a single deed fell while I was around.

 

As for whatever JK was doing back there when the deeds fell, no idea.

By the sound of it they didnt bother defending at all, so how is teleporting in any way related to players that don't even try defending?

[MaurizioAM 919]

There is no reason whatsoever in a game players who LIVE in a deed for the allocated amount of time needed for the prerequisite to teleport, recall home etc to be hindered even more when their village is being attacked. 

 

Players may have been off in the wilderness and had to log off... So now your suggestion is if you are not on deed and its being attacked even if you live their you cannot teleport for 8 hours... That is completely 1 sided and should not even be contemplated by the devs unless they want to see no one play the game. 

 

-15 for the suggestion.

 

Im all for making it more then 24 hours needed of being a citizen before being allowed to teleport but never will i be for not allowing teleportation to a deed you only live in. The minute ou know the enemy has a group out all you have to do is log in an alt in the local and block teleports... Wall them off and your claiming they should have to use their own fortifications to get back inside lol. 

 

You are better off making the suggestion and asking for an explode button you can press when you go to someones deed.

Edited August 26, 2016 by MaurizioAM

[EvaDaly 359]

2 hours ago, Postinglels said:

 

A bug was being abused to reset the cooldown on joining another village hence my call for harsher requirements.

 

 Also currently while karma porting is largely difficult to activate while in an enemies local , its quite simple to teleport into an enemy local, usually a besieged deed thereby  bypassing any barricades setup by the assaulting side and nullifying any skill requirements on behalf of the defenders. And to those who suggest that karma porting into a besieged deed is pvp it really isnt. In the rare circumstances where the the defenders are out matched by the catapulters all they have to do is log off in a secure on deed safe mine or stealth walk off deed and karma out lol. Such pvp 

I agree with make it harder to do it. It shouldnt be so easy to just get alot of people to a deed. 

 

I believe that if you want to defend a deed you should have to ride in. If it is "unsafe" to ride in by horse or boat then it is unsafe to teleport there. 

 

Put a timer on the enemy in local. Part if there was enemy in local for a said amount of time (not 8 hours, maybe like 30 mins or even 1 hour) then you can not teleport. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by EvaDaly

[Odynn 2,248]

21 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

the only time it is used is when people do not want to spend 30 minutes riding around chaos to get to a location for some pvp action, especially when the attackers dip out after a few minutes

 

Hrm, if the goal is to control the land, why do you have to ride for 30 minutes, logically you should already be there to defend (or attack). Or maybe the chaos map is WAY too big and need a reset and 4x4 kms.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Odynn
typos

[bloodmaster 318]

1 hour ago, JakeRivers said:

Plus a bunch of random spam deeds, this is just in the past year or so, I might of missed a bunch more names there are so many jk ruins out there it is hard to keep count, but you get the point, they could of teleported into these deeds with ease to defend but they didn't, so if its such a powerful tactic for defending deeds, why did jk not use it?

 

 

If you feel it's not a powerful tactic, why do people always use it on deeds they actually care about and have numbers to defend, why does your kingdom put such a huge emphasis on it being the only reason JK is still around on chaos and why are you so scared to allow a change like this to go through?

Edited August 26, 2016 by bloodmaster

[Dalvin 61]

because your not looking for real game balance your just hacking away at anything you think might be giving MR an edge with no proof that it is even a major factor to be considered?  JK posts like this amount to 'I think this suggested change would hurt MR more than us lets do it!'  That's pretty pathetic as far as reasons to request a game mechanic change goes.

[Zekezor 3,188]

6 minutes ago, Dalvin said:

because your not looking for real game balance your just hacking away at anything you think might be giving MR an edge with no proof that it is even a major factor to be considered?  JK posts like this amount to 'I think this suggested change would hurt MR more than us lets do it!'  That's pretty pathetic as far as reasons to request a game mechanic change goes.

But... this point was already raised back when we weren't on chaos.... like wayyyy before we had plans for chaos.

it was brought up while talking about border crossings and karmaing just after corssing while enemies were not in local... It's not a "new" idea. (borderhopping between home servers and elevation)

We just didn't push for it since it's basicly never used on epic to defend deeds. However it's heavily used to teleport away from combat which is yet another point about the ability that has gained critique.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Zekezor

[MrGARY 12,421]

8 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

However it's heavily used to teleport away from combat which is yet another point about the ability that has gained critique.

 

If it's normally 5 mins to log out if enemy are in local off deed counting down once they left local, then have a 5 min timer since leaving [prem] enemy local to be able to teleport (ignore insanity teleport since it's a risk, maybe? dunno).  People might /suicide, which pre-karma and even post karma was a pretty dumb problem.  5 mins same timer also before you can /suicide.  There is a timer on it since being in combat anyway so it's already half there

 

Note:  I'm pretty sure every kingdom has teleported to escape dying on epic, dunno chaos.  So it's not really a biased problem

[bloodmaster 318]

1 hour ago, Dalvin said:

because your not looking for real game balance your just hacking away at anything you think might be giving MR an edge with no proof that it is even a major factor to be considered?  JK posts like this amount to 'I think this suggested change would hurt MR more than us lets do it!'  That's pretty pathetic as far as reasons to request a game mechanic change goes.

We're really not. You even claimed yourself JK used it more? We are taking it away from JK. We're willing to sacrifice that. Red has been saying that he wasn't happy with people in MR because they were pushing their agenda to keep MR ontop. He posted a suggestion thread to remove it I believe a few months back so I would believe that. Even your longstanding members agree that it's abused.

[Dalvin 61]

11 minutes ago, bloodmaster said:

We're really not. You even claimed yourself JK used it more? We are taking it away from JK. We're willing to sacrifice that. Red has been saying that he wasn't happy with people in MR because they were pushing their agenda to keep MR ontop. He posted a suggestion thread to remove it I believe a few months back so I would believe that. Even your longstanding members agree that it's abused.

I never claimed JK used it more.  My point was that MR probably uses it far less than JK assumes, that perhaps the 'lack of infrastructure' is in fact a lack of understanding what infrastructure MR has.  In short JK likes to make assumptions as to why they have done so poorly for so long that have no bearing in facts.  Now how about a dev comes in here and gives us some useful info on how karma porting seems to currently be used because I tire of the lets change this because I FEEL it might let me win again.  And FYI I have never karma ported only time I teleported was on joining village for the first time as a noob.  If a dev wants to feel useful and see if they can verify that they can feel free to for the sake of showing I'm not asking for something because I find it advantageous, I'm asking not to change something unless there is proof it is broken.

[Wargasm 1,927]

11 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

Can someone please enlighten me how logging out in a mine would help during a "siege" because wouldn't the enemies be there for when they log back in if it was a true "siege"?

 

Simple.  You ride by the deed on an alt to see if it is safe to log in.  Maybe even walk onto the deed, into the mine and use a pendulum.  Your kingdom is no stranger to using sacrificial alts, as we've all seen so recently as your HotA defeat last night.
 

 

 

 

[bloodmaster 318]

3 minutes ago, Dalvin said:

I never claimed JK used it more.  My point was that MR probably uses it far less than JK assumes, that perhaps the 'lack of infrastructure' is in fact a lack of understanding what infrastructure MR has.  In short JK likes to make assumptions as to why they have done so poorly for so long that have no bearing in facts.  Now how about a dev comes in here and gives us some useful info on how karma porting seems to currently be used because I tire of the lets change this because I FEEL it might let me win again.  And FYI I have never karma ported only time I teleported was on joining village for the first time as a noob.  If a dev wants to feel useful and see if they can verify that they can feel free to for the sake of showing I'm not asking for something because I find it advantageous, I'm asking not to change something unless there is proof it is broken.

Ok well in that case, you should be fine with the change from what I gather then? You either don't need it so should be able to be fine with it as you even say here you have the infrastructure so you should be able to deal with this cooldown for karma'ing? Or you don't want it because you truely do rely on it even if only on certain deeds you have planted. You don't give any reason why you REALLY don't back it.

Edited August 26, 2016 by bloodmaster