PvP Changes discussion

[changer 459]

7 minutes ago, SeeD said:

What surprises me about PvPers is how afraid they are to lose items, perhaps full loot PvP is the issue and some sort of partial loot system would be better? New players dont lose everything, dying carries less loss, and no need for res stones

the fear and excitement of losing/getting loot is a crucial part of pvp, though i've always been for a tibia-like loot system where you only lose partially (unless you're red or black skull, which could be replaced with rank or character skill, so if you've got a higher rank you lose everything vs if you got a low rank you lose partial random equipment that is equipped + inventory items

[Egard 3,363]

Lets keep it more on topic, but seriously that is the worst suggestion that has popped up thus far SeeD...  Full Loot PvP is like the only incentive to even PvP now a days. 

[SmeJack 5,806]

12 minutes ago, changer said:

Are you saying that it's more dangerous now than in pvp primetime in 2013/2014?

 

lets see the difference, in 2013/2014 which was the primetime for pvp on epic, there were little to no wardeeds which players could retreat to the map was much smaller and still had deeds to run to or mines before the anti hop code went in, there were no water gates or water buildings to restrict enemies on your homeserver even if there were water gates back then, players actually took risks and roamed on horses not hugging their rare/supreme boat crutch. JKH also had canals with houses boats had to be dragged through long before your prime time , nolocate actually worked which made it easier for enemies to run around made it easier to run around fearless being completely invisible unless hitting someones local and still able to dip or stealth in a mine undetected by pendulums and log off, there were limited amounts of rare/supreme horsegear which makes horses faster not as much as there is today but still not that rare, which gives more time for players to use archery and to use positioning tactics it was less or even a non issue because back then there was no range nerf that there is now preventing 'sniper archers' that nerf needs to be removed to bring it back in line

 

if I afked on hota in 2013/2014 i wouldn't last 3 hours, if i afk on hota today i'd probably last until the server is restarted again the map was much smaller with 10x the player base so far more likely to bump into people especially since it was a giant steppe good for weapon skill and the chance of finding boulders drew people there too, whenever that is, safety is stagnation, aggressive action is pvp, if there is no aggressive action there is no responsive action, there is no pvp without aggressiveness, there is no aggressiveness without incentive for aggression, such as enemy territories which are easy/close/unprotected taking safety nets from the passive or lesser numbered has also taken safety nets from the aggressors in the same sweep such as antihop, you cant stack all the safety nets on one side and strip them from the other or vice versa. The play style and environment has changed considerably and even the aggressors take far less risks than they used to. The reward is the kills and loot which should be enough but when a couple of gates tells the aggressors that they can no longer bother because they wont get off their boat that's a mentality issue where you are taking no risks and expecting all the rewards, just like when zombie gumps got removed and some left to live on a home server.

 

[rixk 830]

31 minutes ago, changer said:

Are you saying that it's more dangerous now than in pvp primetime in 2013/2014?

 

lets see the difference, in 2013/2014 which was the primetime for pvp on epic, there were little to no wardeeds which players could retreat to, there were no water gates or water buildings to restrict enemies on your homeserver, nolocate actually worked which made it easier for enemies to run around, there were limited amounts of rare/supreme horsegear which makes horses faster, which gives more time for players to use archery and to use positioning tactics

 

if I afked on hota in 2013/2014 i wouldn't last 3 hours, if i afk on hota today i'd probably last until the server is restarted, whenever that is, safety is stagnation, aggressive action is pvp, if there is no aggressive action there is no responsive action, there is no pvp without aggressiveness, there is no aggressiveness without incentive for aggression, such as enemy territories which are easy/close/unprotected

I am saying, that people who would take risks, have less chance to do so. If someone takes a risk, they have to have chance to get away.. risking shouldn't mean death sentence, otherwise noone does it.

 

EDIT: SmeJack said it better.

Edited August 8, 2016 by rixk

[Redd 4,281]

Can we go back to discussing changes to retain players?

 

Tower capping changes

HotA changes (can only build within 200-500 tiles or w/e)

Mine doors/houses off deed not opening to enemies anymore 

Twitter bots

Chaos loot code

 

list goes on

[Zekezor 3,188]

3 hours ago, Budda said:

Also with the speeds that Zeke brought up, is leather not currently the same speed as drake/scale currently? If so, would that same problem not still happen to a some extent on live right now with scale/drake users?

If you are asking if Drake/Scale beat the everliving crap out of regular plate users? then yes, yes they do.

PVP standards on chaos is drake/scale sets... People don't really use slower armor types to my knowledge... unless they are forced to.

PVP standards on Epic is more plate-aligned since the massive supplies of drake/scale from pve-freedom isn't a thing and the drop supplies is lesser than the freedom-cluster counterpart. However we get special hidden chests with moon metals (brings a great supply) and also moon metal boulders from valrei events. The killing of valrei mobs on Epic is also more frequent and thus they supply more moon metals than on chaos.

Chaos also allow improving drake/scale with non-dragon Components which Epic doesn't. (therefor they can't be used casually in everyday situations)

Epic also adapted to the heavier armor sets and thus there is more open mounted/boat based combat comparable to chaos infantry/siege warfare.

 

So tldr: Epic has high supplies of moonmetals and thus its the norm. Chaos has high supplies of drake/scale and thus it's the norm. The servers don't play out in the same "enviroment" and thus the clusters differ in playstyle.

 

[changer 459]

1 hour ago, SmeJack said:

Are you saying that it's more dangerous now than in pvp primetime in 2013/2014?

 

lets see the difference, in 2013/2014 which was the primetime for pvp on epic, there were little to no wardeeds which players could retreat to the map was much smaller and still had deeds to run to or mines before the anti hop code went in, there were no water gates or water buildings to restrict enemies on your homeserver even if there were water gates back then, players actually took risks and roamed on horses not hugging their rare/supreme boat crutch. JKH also had canals with houses boats had to be dragged through long before your prime time , nolocate actually worked which made it easier for enemies to run around made it easier to run around fearless being completely invisible unless hitting someones local and still able to dip or stealth in a mine undetected by pendulums and log off, there were limited amounts of rare/supreme horsegear which makes horses fasternot as much as there is today but still not that rare, which gives more time for players to use archery and to use positioning tactics it was less or even a non issue because back then there was no range nerf that there is now preventing 'sniper archers' that nerf needs to be removed to bring it back in line

 

if I afked on hota in 2013/2014 i wouldn't last 3 hours, if i afk on hota today i'd probably last until the server is restarted again the map was much smaller with 10x the player base so far more likely to bump into people especially since it was a giant steppe good for weapon skill and the chance of finding boulders drew people there too, whenever that is, safety is stagnation, aggressive action is pvp, if there is no aggressive action there is no responsive action, there is no pvp without aggressiveness, there is no aggressiveness without incentive for aggression, such as enemy territories which are easy/close/unprotected taking safety nets from the passive or lesser numbered has also taken safety nets from the aggressors in the same sweep such as antihop, you cant stack all the safety nets on one side and strip them from the other or vice versa. The play style and environment has changed considerably and even the aggressors take far less risks than they used to. The reward is the kills and loot which should be enough but when a couple of gates tells the aggressors that they can no longer bother because they wont get off their boat that's a mentality issue where you are taking no risks and expecting all the rewards, just like when zombie gumps got removed and some left to live on a home server.

the map was smaller, yes, but there were less deeds to run to and they were much farther away, really the only pvp that has happened on the current map is romevsjk, blvsrome and the occasional vd/mr vs jk/rome, jk had to go to capehorn on the old map to get to safety, to even get somewhere relevant on hota they'd have to go atleast to the northern volcano which is a few locals away, currently they can stand within 1-2 locals of their deed with 50kmh hellhorses and still be in a relevant spot on hota, and so can rome, safety is too close which can be confirmed by the low kill numbers from hota on this map

 

we still used our boats efficiently back then while coastguarding, jkh had blocked the southwestern canal, the northern one was still usable, it's far easier to build water gates than it is to terraform the entire area and build houses + locks ontop of that, it could be fixed by increasing decay off-deed heavily though, people didn't take more risks back then, there were just more incentive to do stuff, to do missions on enemy homeservers because there weren't many that focused on missions so you had a bigger chance to gain items, we went to mrh and jkh starterdeed and ###### ###### up back then, we did so too to mrh and blh starterdeeds on this map, i guess the actual players have changed rather than the player mentality, back then there were aggressive players in each kingdom, now the ones left are stacked in 1 kingdom

 

nolocate is a big incentive for smaller groups to do something. oh, someone randomly located you and you're on the edge of the map towards a homeserver? tough luck, turn around or get slaughtered by 5 sailboats of enemies before you find anyone to kill

 

I don't understand why you think that we're the ones in safety when we're sitting inside of a lake at your starterdeed vs 20 enemies and they've got about 15 boats 2 tiles away from us where a few of them are rare/supreme, the lake in which you could isolate us from going anywhere on boat by dropping 500 dirt and planting some buildings/walls a few locals away, if a sailboat of mr was right outside our lake at our capital, are you safe? it's the exact same scenario, but different people, scenario 1 happened tons of times, scenario 2 will never happen.

 

who's being safe here, the 12 which has accessibility to boats on their homeserver at their starterdeed with horses with materials available to cut the enemies off, that then retreats back into their starterdeed, or the enemies that sits on a enemy homeserver vs more than 2x the numbers, where they could be cut off at any time and still pushes the enemy back into their starterdeed

 

as i wrote, the only aggressors left are stacked in 1 kingdom, which is why neither jk/vd/mr has sat outside our capital or assaulted our deeds or done hota actively while we're active

 

looking at the epic pvp videos thread, you can only see vids where rome is sitting on mrh/blh/in enemy lands/hota vids with the occasional jk vid doing something to vd, which means there's weren't enough incentive for jk/mr/other groups to do stuff

 

playing like an absolute madman and purposely putting yourself at a huge disadvantage to get pvp isn't a big hit, even though we did it, not much pvp was created from it, and from what i see the only thing that could create it is if we disembark and wall ourselves inside of templar range at the starterdeed or something

Edited August 8, 2016 by changer

[changer 459]

1 hour ago, rixk said:

I am saying, that people who would take risks, have less chance to do so. If someone takes a risk, they have to have chance to get away.. risking shouldn't mean death sentence, otherwise noone does it.

 

EDIT: SmeJack said it better.

exactly, risking shouldn't mean a death sentence, if there's a huge amount of defences you have to penetrate before finding players, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage where the enemy can easily wall you in or cut you off and kill your small group with their big group, say you have to catapult a few water gates, catapult a building, and then sail/run inside, the enemy rebuilds the gates and you're trapped, you die, and you decide that you'll never go there again because it's too risky and the chances for killing players and surviving is too small.

 

the aggressor is already at a disadvantage by making himself vulnerable, adding more mechanics which makes him even more vulnerable (making nolo useless and adding more safety measures like water gates which he has to penetrate and be potentially walled in, and faster horses etc) eventually means he won't do any aggressive actions at all as it simply isn't worth it.

 

which is also why metagaming mechanics should be changed, the more you know about the enemy and the more the enemy know about you, the less will the lesser group will want to engage while the greater group will want to engage, nothing will happen as the less good group retreats to their safety zone. While if they didn't know how the situation looked like they would be much more likely to either engage or assess the situation

Edited August 8, 2016 by changer

[SmeJack 5,806]

Every kingdom had a HotA mine and every kingdom got pushed back to theirs if they didn't have the numbers or slaughtered being cut off, when anti hop went in these mines got deeded and much closer to HotA than mechanics now allow.  Again the low kills can be attributed to the shorter archery range too, nostalgia is nice but sometimes the facts get blurred out and blame placed in random spots. Dropping 500 dirt sounds like it would take similar time for you to deal with as picking a gate with pro vault breakers unless bad luck but knowing the retreat requires picking a lock is too high risk to consider viable but still not leaving the boat and just calling it done. There are still aggressive players but they too understand risk management and are not stupid enough to water dance without the same speed. Not suiciding ruins your fun as much as suiciding ruins theirs.

 

*edit to add to your edit: those videos show a lot of people who can't listen and do stupid things which is exactly what you need to go for, there are also videos that show how easy it is for you guys to board and retreat to heal if needed. They don't show you whatever boat may be nearby would still leave any that boarded it at a disadvantage which goes back to the not suiciding thing.

[changer 459]

19 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Every kingdom had a HotA mine and every kingdom got pushed back to theirs if they didn't have the numbers or slaughtered being cut off, when anti hop went in these mines got deeded and much closer to HotA than mechanics now allow.  Again the low kills can be attributed to the shorter archery range too, nostalgia is nice but sometimes the facts get blurred out and blame placed in random spots. Dropping 500 dirt sounds like it would take similar time for you to deal with as picking a gate with pro vault breakers unless bad luck but knowing the retreat requires picking a lock is too high risk to consider viable but still not leaving the boat and just calling it done. There are still aggressive players but they too understand risk management and are not stupid enough to water dance without the same speed. Not suiciding ruins your fun as much as suiciding ruins theirs.

*edit to add to your edit: those videos show a lot of people who can't listen and do stupid things which is exactly what you need to go for, there are also videos that show how easy it is for you guys to board and retreat to heal if needed. They don't show you whatever boat may be nearby would still leave any that boarded it at a disadvantage which goes back to the not suiciding thing.

bl had no hota deed, jk's deed was as far away as it wasn't a big influence on hota, and even then we killed them at their deed a few times 

 

mr hota deed was a influence and was quite close to a relevant position on hota which is probably why they took so few risks on the old map when they had safety so close

 

dropping 500 dirt and building 3 walls would effectively wall us in at mrh starterdeed, assuming 5-6 of the 15-20 players which we fought most times on mrh ran around and did that it wouldn't take long to build, and the only way we'd be able to get around it is pushing the boat, we usually stood around the starterdeed for a good hour or two which is well enough time to do that with a dozen of players, lockpicking also takes time (30 sec) so i don't see why you didn't hop on your boats and chase us or wall us off, if you wanted to take a risk that is

 

yes as i wrote, there are still aggressive players, but they're stacked in 1 kingdom, or there are too few in other kingdoms to form a team of roamers/a sailboat, it isn't just a coincidence that the vast majority of aggressive actions the past year has been attributed by 1 group

 

yes, that's a matter of player/character/group skill and not mechanics, mr has the exact same mechanics that we do apart from fo champ where they have mag champs, them not boarding their boats is a smart choice as we'd probably fug em up, but if they had no safety deed to fall back to they'd be forced to engage us as we'd engage them, and if they wouldn't engage us then we'd have full access to their lands and the people that travels there, which is why jkh was forced to engage us so often, because if they didn't then we'd stick around and find players to kill and destroy infrastructure and generally ruin their ######

Edited August 8, 2016 by changer

[Alexgopen 2,376]

6 hours ago, Budda said:

When you talk about HP increases, just know that everyone has the same HP - it's DR that determines your survivability.

 

yes

 

6 hours ago, TradingAlt said:

Guess you folks need to do some explaining then, afaik  body strength is supposed to increase your health by a %.

 

no, see above. effectively it increases your hp, bc 50% dr makes you live twice as long as 0% because the damage you take is halved, but its still 65535 hp in the end

 

5 hours ago, Budda said:

We'd have to go through all the different bonuses etc, but I doubt the non-armour bonuses could stack up to a point of the cap meaning not needing any armour.

 

here's a calculator for all of the DR bonuses except for defensive fighting, since that's dependant upon whether you succeed or fail the skill check for how much DR you get from it

 

http://codehost.tumblr.com/

 

4 hours ago, Omar said:

Hi Alex

 

...joking idk prob Nappy lol

 

not me, i think he meant black legion

 

because i'm not "former" hots, i'm STILL hots, and STILL pvp

Edited August 8, 2016 by Alexgopen

[Nappy 1,369]

6 hours ago, Omar said:

 

 

Hi Alex

 

 

...joking idk prob Nappy lol

Nope, certainly not me Glasse.

[Propheteer 7,139]

yo can all of you stop and give buddha actual feedback, i dont care how experienced you are and telling him how experienced you are isn't going to get anything done.

 

"hi im x and i have 500 kills and am MR Chaos XD"

"hi im Y and i have 3200 kills and am BL xD"

 

It's great and all, but, there is always someone better than you who might disagree with you. Just put forth your opinion/argument, explain it thoroughly, and stop.

 

@Budda

 

I think the cap on DR could work, but we would need to find a way to make other armor types unique, if we could get max DR while wearing leather while sacrificing a small amount of glancerate, why would we wear plate?

 

I remember when pre-ff was around, i was only a noob who played every now and again back in those days, but i do remember seeing a huge variety in armors on the PvP server. Perhaps someone who was hardcore during those times can further explain why? I don't think i've ever seen that variety since.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Propheteer

[Mclovin 2,591]

10 hours ago, Budda said:

 

Just from the numbers that I've had to go through for the pass on balancing armour, I was very surprised at how much glimmer/seryll/addy actually add to plate - throwing the DR well above scale and drake. I've thought for a couple weeks now that glimmer and addy DR bonus should be nerfed, but I've held back on it as I thought this would be something that the players would be outright against.

 

If we did reduce the DR I'd be open to adding another non-DR related boost to those moon metals (considering seryll already has shatterproof as you said) - but would everyone be happy with that reduction?

You'll be shocked at what we're against or not - I'd support a moon metal nerf if it helps close the gap between old/new and makes fights less about gear more about skill.

The DR cap sounds good too.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Mclovin

[Mclovin 2,591]

3 hours ago, changer said:

the map was smaller, yes, but there were less deeds to run to and they were much farther away, really the only pvp that has happened on the current map is romevsjk, blvsrome and the occasional vd/mr vs jk/rome, jk had to go to capehorn on the old map to get to safety, to even get somewhere relevant on hota they'd have to go atleast to the northern volcano which is a few locals away, currently they can stand within 1-2 locals of their deed with 50kmh hellhorses and still be in a relevant spot on hota, and so can rome, safety is too close which can be confirmed by the low kill numbers from hota on this map

 

we still used our boats efficiently back then while coastguarding, jkh had blocked the southwestern canal, the northern one was still usable, it's far easier to build water gates than it is to terraform the entire area and build houses + locks ontop of that, it could be fixed by increasing decay off-deed heavily though, people didn't take more risks back then, there were just more incentive to do stuff, to do missions on enemy homeservers because there weren't many that focused on missions so you had a bigger chance to gain items, we went to mrh and jkh starterdeed and ###### ###### up back then, we did so too to mrh and blh starterdeeds on this map, i guess the actual players have changed rather than the player mentality, back then there were aggressive players in each kingdom, now the ones left are stacked in 1 kingdom

 

nolocate is a big incentive for smaller groups to do something. oh, someone randomly located you and you're on the edge of the map towards a homeserver? tough luck, turn around or get slaughtered by 5 sailboats of enemies before you find anyone to kill

 

I don't understand why you think that we're the ones in safety when we're sitting inside of a lake at your starterdeed vs 20 enemies and they've got about 15 boats 2 tiles away from us where a few of them are rare/supreme, the lake in which you could isolate us from going anywhere on boat by dropping 500 dirt and planting some buildings/walls a few locals away, if a sailboat of mr was right outside our lake at our capital, are you safe? it's the exact same scenario, but different people, scenario 1 happened tons of times, scenario 2 will never happen.

 

who's being safe here, the 12 which has accessibility to boats on their homeserver at their starterdeed with horses with materials available to cut the enemies off, that then retreats back into their starterdeed, or the enemies that sits on a enemy homeserver vs more than 2x the numbers, where they could be cut off at any time and still pushes the enemy back into their starterdeed

 

as i wrote, the only aggressors left are stacked in 1 kingdom, which is why neither jk/vd/mr has sat outside our capital or assaulted our deeds or done hota actively while we're active

 

looking at the epic pvp videos thread, you can only see vids where rome is sitting on mrh/blh/in enemy lands/hota vids with the occasional jk vid doing something to vd, which means there's weren't enough incentive for jk/mr/other groups to do stuff

 

playing like an absolute madman and purposely putting yourself at a huge disadvantage to get pvp isn't a big hit, even though we did it, not much pvp was created from it, and from what i see the only thing that could create it is if we disembark and wall ourselves inside of templar range at the starterdeed or something

Agree with 90% of things said, but there was less deeds because mine hops would work. I think mine hops being how they are now stopped players confidence in roaming on homeservers/ele cause once you're out you're out and if 12 people turn up against 3-4...you just run, or, you can run to your mine hop, skirmish horses and spam alliance for backup and wait for a rescue mission normally leading to bigger fights

[Malev 177]

DR nerfs , moon metals bla bla.

Give to us new pvp map,

Make for new players no drop on death or partly for first 6 months.

Reduce PMK cost to 50s maybe or so and 10 or 15 players needed to found one and we will get fun back on pvp. 

Make cave doors stay closed off deed, thats big reason aswell why many people doesnt leave deeds.

[Anothernoob 102]

Are we going to see any changes that will prevent PvP from meaning Priest vs Priest in the near future?

 

PS. Nerfing moonmetal gear will cause too much outrage on PvE servers unless you can contain the nerf to the PvP servers.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Anothernoob

[Pandalet 1,848]

Please keep this to actual discussion of ideas.  If an idea is bad, explain why, with examples if necessary.  Attacking people because they don't understand your particular bit of PvP, or because they're in the wrong kingdom, or what someone said about someone else is unhelpful and unnecessary, and has no place in this thread.

 

Thank you.

  Pandalet (Assistant Lead Forum Moderator)

[Budda 2,675]

I'll just leave this here for you all to fight over and discuss today:

 

If we went the route of a curve applied for how BS affects DR, this is something along the lines of how it would work out, compared to currently: http://prntscr.com/c3clob

 

The problem I can see with this already though is it's largely a buff to basically all accounts at this point - which I think is due to the difference of 20BS and 40BS being a huge investment in game, but not really in terms of numbers - so 40BS accounts would get a hefty buff along with the 20BS accounts.

 

If someone can come up with a different function for a better curve for it I'm all ears.

[Alexgopen 2,376]

26 minutes ago, Budda said:

I'll just leave this here for you all to fight over and discuss today:

 

If we went the route of a curve applied for how BS affects DR, this is something along the lines of how it would work out, compared to currently: http://prntscr.com/c3clob

 

The problem I can see with this already though is it's largely a buff to basically all accounts at this point - which I think is due to the difference of 20BS and 40BS being a huge investment in game, but not really in terms of numbers - so 40BS accounts would get a hefty buff along with the 20BS accounts.

 

If someone can come up with a different function for a better curve for it I'm all ears.

 

Doesn't look bad to me, but you might get some complaints from some of the top freedom/chaos players.  On epic I believe very few if any people have above 70 bs, which looks to be the intersection of those two functions, but on freedom there are some people much higher, since they've had more time to grind their characteristics up.  Definitely would give lower bs players a better fighting chance in pvp, but may also be problematic in further buffing those under 70bs who already have stacked DR from other sources. 

[SmeJack 5,806]

Instead of a curve I'd rather see some kind of temporary buff to players under 30 or even 40 strength and once hitting that it goes away or reduces a lot until maybe 50 where it reduces completely. Wurm is a grind that's just what it is and a curve removes the point of playing and improving your character, not only would it nullify years of work for current players but remove any need or willingness to go further which means less point to playing unless there is a reason to log in such as being called to pvp.

[Alexgopen 2,376]

5 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Instead of a curve I'd rather see some kind of temporary buff to players under 30 or even 40 strength and once hitting that it goes away or reduces a lot until maybe 50 where it reduces completely. Wurm is a grind that's just what it is and a curve removes the point of playing and improving your character, not only would it nullify years of work for current players but remove any need or willingness to go further which means less point to playing unless there is a reason to log in such as being called to pvp.

 

That's what this curve is, except the benefit from it reduces up until 70 skill, where there is no longer any benefit from the curve, and beyond 70 body strength there is reduced benefit from body strength as compared to normal.  There would still be a point to grind body strength with this curve up until 70 body strength, after which you could still grind it if you wanted, but it wouldn't be as good past 70 as it once was, which achieves the desired effect of preventing extreme account snowballing via body strength sourced damage reduction.  As long as you aren't beyond 70 body strength already, none of your work is nullified, and if you are past 70 already, then perhaps switch to grinding other characteristics or skills if you don't think the small damage reduction boosts ahead are worth it. 

[Budda 2,675]

To be fair, a hybrid system could still work. Keep the current linear progression, but under 40 or 50BS apply a bonus to it that uses a curve.

[SmeJack 5,806]

That's my point Alex, why should a skill be made pointless after 70 and not 100? Saying its ok that its nullified because you can just work on something else doesn't really change the fact that its still 30 points of useless. If you could create and max imp anything you desired at 20 skill why would you get 90 if you aren't getting better.

[Alexgopen 2,376]

18 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

That's my point Alex, why should a skill be made pointless after 70 and not 100? Saying its ok that its nullified because you can just work on something else doesn't really change the fact that its still 30 points of useless. If you could create and max imp anything you desired at 20 skill why would you get 90 if you aren't getting better.

 

You could say the same about the epic skill curve at 70 actual skill, you can do pretty much everything at that point without much need to go further.  A good example is my crafter Sphygmo which has around 70 in just about all of its crafting skills, and I can make pretty much anything because I have 90+ effective and don't really need to grind it anymore.

 

 

Anyways if anyone wants to see how Budda's proposed curve would affect them or toy around with DR values, I added a checkbox for it to my DR calc: http://codehost.tumblr.com/

 

25 minutes ago, Budda said:

To be fair, a hybrid system could still work. Keep the current linear progression, but under 40 or 50BS apply a bonus to it that uses a curve.

 

The issue then is that the DR:work ratio of body strength training will take off after 70 skill, which hurts those just nearing 70 body strength, but benefits those above 70 body strength by comparison.  Reaching 70 body strength would become a milestone in increasing DR gains, after which you blaze ahead of the rest in terms of damage reduction.

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Alexgopen