PvP Changes discussion

[TradingAlt 946]

Just now, Budda said:

 

Does it matter who the idea came from?

Depends, with the right motives anything is possible right?

[Egard 3,363]

2 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

Does it matter who the idea came from?

it does because depending on which part of the community they come from their experience might be little or none to know how things actually work ingame and all . But then again it all varies on the idea. 

[TradingAlt 946]

To explain why that idea is bad. Lets say you've got a super stacked account. Well if you got the max dr, you could go naked and have the same defences lol (outside of glance rates)

[SeeD 117]

1 minute ago, Egard said:

it does because depending on which part of the community they come from their experience might be little or none to know how things actually work ingame and all . But then again it all varies on the idea. 

so you want to judge the idea by the person?

 

and they say PvPers can agree on things

[Budda 2,675]

1 minute ago, Egard said:

it does because depending on which part of the community they come from their experience might be little or none to know how things actually work ingame and all . But then again it all varies on the idea. 

 

Which is why discussion on the merits and flaws of the idea is preferred, rather than calling into question the motives or experience of who brought up the idea. If the idea is bad or has issues, then bring those up - I really don't care which side of the fence a good idea comes from.

[Omar 479]

6 minutes ago, Budda said:

Another possibility that was just brought up to me is having a hard cap on DR.

 

Would mean that all the stacking bonuses that are currently in the game would do nothing extra after a certain point, but if you're one of those people that has all of those stacked bonuses currently, it opens up options of using different armour types that are more rarely (or never) used, like leather etc without suffering with a lower DR than others with plate or scale.

 

Would likely need a fair bit of balancing and tweaking to get it right, but could be an option.

 

Newer players would be less reliant on getting all of the stacking bonuses to compete, and could focus on the few to get them to the acceptable mark.

 

A cap kinda takes away from the core premise of the game - long play time slowly increasing character strength.

Could just reduce all them extra bonuses - like idk every single player has suggested.

 

 

 

[TradingAlt 946]

2 minutes ago, Budda said:

I really don't care which side of the fence a good idea comes from.

Thats the thing tho, it might seem like a good idea to someone like you or whoever said that one (AKA the unexperienced) 

 

but to the people who have actually done the pvp thing for a very long time, its a really bad idea.

 

 

AKA experience or inexperience skews the mindset

Edited August 8, 2016 by TradingAlt

[SeeD 117]

Just now, Omar said:

 

A cap kinda takes away from the core premise of the game - long play time slowly increasing character strength.

Could just reduce all them extra bonuses - like idk every single player has suggested.

Like the ability to wear lighter armour, or take a different meditation path without being penalised?

 

Just now, TradingAlt said:

but to the people who have actually done the pvp thing for a very long time, its a really bad idea.

still havent said why

[TradingAlt 946]

Just now, SeeD said:

Like the ability to wear lighter armour, or take a different meditation path without being penalised?

 

still havent said why

yes I have scroll up before you post useless things.

[Budda 2,675]

15 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

Thats the thing tho, it might seem like a good idea to someone like you or whoever said that one (AKA the unexperienced) 

 

but to the people who have actually done the pvp thing for a very long time, its a really bad idea.

 

Which you haven't actually discussed yet. Is this one a bad idea? I presume you're getting that it is, so tell me why.

 

The more I know the reasons behind why an idea is good or bad to you all the more help it gives me in making a decision on what to change and how to go about it.

[Zekezor 3,188]

15 minutes ago, Budda said:

Another possibility that was just brought up to me is having a hard cap on DR.

 

Would mean that all the stacking bonuses that are currently in the game would do nothing extra after a certain point, but if you're one of those people that has all of those stacked bonuses currently, it opens up options of using different armour types that are more rarely (or never) used, like leather etc without suffering with a lower DR than others with plate or scale.

 

Would likely need a fair bit of balancing and tweaking to get it right, but could be an option.

 

Newer players would be less reliant on getting all of the stacking bonuses to compete, and could focus on the few to get them to the acceptable mark.

Flawed idea.

You would end up with super fast veteran accounts in light armour vs snailspeeded plate armor wielding newbies. (yet just as healthy)

Newer groups would be massacered.

AoE dmg fields (for hurt status) would enhance the effect even more.

Leather users run over 40% faster than plate.

The veteran priests would also channel their spells better.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Zekezor

[SeeD 117]

but how is that bad? given armour gives like, 75% of the total DR stacking anyways, you'd still suck

[Lisabet 1,016]

3 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

Which you haven't actually discussed yet. Is this one a bad idea? I presume you're getting that it is, so tell me why.

 

The more I know the reasons behind why an idea is good or bad to you all the more help it gives me in making a decision on what to change and how to go about it.

 

10 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

To explain why that idea is bad. Lets say you've got a super stacked account. Well if you got the max dr, you could go naked and have the same defences lol (outside of glance rates)

 

How valid is this concern, Budda?

[Budda 2,675]

1 minute ago, Lisabet said:

 

 

How valid is this concern, Budda?

 

Ah my bad, I missed that post.

 

We'd have to go through all the different bonuses etc, but I doubt the non-armour bonuses could stack up to a point of the cap meaning not needing any armour.

 

Of course the different bonuses could be weighted or tweaked so that armour is still a requirement if it turns out to be a problem.

 

Also with the speeds that Zeke brought up, is leather not currently the same speed as drake/scale currently? If so, would that same problem not still happen to a some extent on live right now with scale/drake users?

[TradingAlt 946]

Just now, Budda said:

 

Ah my bad, I missed that post.

 

We'd have to go through all the different bonuses etc, but I doubt the non-armour bonuses could stack up to a point of the cap meaning not needing any armour.

 

Of course the different bonuses could be weighted or tweaked so that armour is still a requirement if it turns out to be a problem.

 

Also with the speeds that Zeke brought up, is leather not currently the same speed as drake/scale currently? If so, would that same problem not still happen to a some extent on live right now with scale/drake users?

why make leather in any way as good as drake? how does this make any sense at all

[Budda 2,675]

It wouldn't be as good as drake, it would still just be leather - but all of the other stacked DR bonuses would make up for that difference to someone that just had drake and no outside DR bonuses for example.

[Lisabet 1,016]

the bonuses from valrei items is still a bit pay to win though....

 

easier on freedom/chaos to buy drake than most of the valrei charges, tbh

Edited August 8, 2016 by Lisabet

[Egard 3,363]

so I could wear cloth be faster then everyone else, but still have max damage reduction or the same as someone in seryll/glimmer/scale. All because I have SoTG, Smoke of Sol, Blood of the Angels (continuum 20% dr), 60+ body strength with various other valrei's to add some more resistance. 

[Oreo 5,793]

1 minute ago, Egard said:

so I could wear cloth be faster then everyone else, but still have max damage reduction or the same as someone in seryll/glimmer/scale. All because I have SoTG, Smoke of Sol, Blood of the Angels (continuum 20% dr), 60+ body strength with various other valrei's to add some more resistance. 

yeah pretty much, balance right?

you go get em budda, you go man!!

Edited August 8, 2016 by Oreo

[SeeD 117]

2 minutes ago, Lisabet said:

the bonuses from valrei items is still a bit pay to win though....

The issue there is seperate imo.

 

RMT allows for people to directly translate 100s into 100e. Other games have things that give bonuses traded for ingame currency, the only difference is how players see silvers as euros

[Egard 3,363]

Oh I forgot to add the ability to cast stone skin before and even during combat granted I dont get hit because 90+ shield skill and weapon, parry all day everyday. So I take no damage from 3 hits. 

 

Dagobert is just a wizard ok, the man is blessed by fo personally. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Egard

[Budda 2,675]

Whereas now you have what, closer to 85/90% total DR with all those stacked bonuses at a guess? Is movement speed such a huge balance issue that trading away that extra DR for faster speed would be considered overpowered?

[Redd 4,281]

34 minutes ago, Budda said:

Another possibility that was just brought up to me is having a hard cap on DR.

 

Would mean that all the stacking bonuses that are currently in the game would do nothing extra after a certain point, but if you're one of those people that has all of those stacked bonuses currently, it opens up options of using different armour types that are more rarely (or never) used, like leather etc without suffering with a lower DR than others with plate or scale.

 

Would likely need a fair bit of balancing and tweaking to get it right, but could be an option.

 

Newer players would be less reliant on getting all of the stacking bonuses to compete, and could focus on the few to get them to the acceptable mark.

 

Sounds like the beginning of Wurm becoming chess/chequers. We need variability. Putting a hard cap on DR will just result in us working out the bare minimum armour to wear for best DR.

 

 

[Omar 479]

1 minute ago, Budda said:

Whereas now you have what, closer to 85/90% total DR with all those stacked bonuses at a guess? Is movement speed such a huge balance issue that trading away that extra DR for faster speed would be considered overpowered?

Yes

 

 

 

Cons = big change to the whole nature of pvp.  ppl gonna be mad about their high end armor now useless.

Pros = zooming around in cheap leather.

 

 

I so wish the lighter armors become more viable. Have the balances to the armors gone live yet? 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Omar

[Egard 3,363]

3 minutes ago, Budda said:

Whereas now you have what, closer to 85/90% total DR with all those stacked bonuses at a guess? Is movement speed such a huge balance issue that trading away that extra DR for faster speed would be considered overpowered?

considering I will likely move anywhere from 2km to even more depending on the opponents armor yes. I can enter and leave combat as I please, run if I get low on health and they would never catch me. 

 

to give you a example, an account with most not all of those bonuses (Doctorchaos) once walked in cloth with summer hat (fastest possible move speed combo for wearing armor) in to the middle of a full raid force dragged their catapult and away from them when they were max 5 tiles from him and they werent able to catch or stop him because he couldnt get hit. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Egard