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PvP Changes discussion

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22 minutes ago, bloodmaster said:

Not biggest change to actual combat but very related to pvp due to raiding. A big QoL change would be to make it so when catapulting it tells you either when you get a wall down with a shot and/or you are hitting just a wall plan. As right now it's just guesswork if the wall is down and it gets a little annoying. This small, easy change would make it much more friendly to raid a deed as it takes a lot of the hassle out of shooting at something.

Have a watcher on deed? Not that hard tbh

Edited by Wulfgarr

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4 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

I'd like to note that tosiek does not get 25% damage bonus 

 

Which leaves one champ in all of epic receiving +25% bonus damage  (and no mag champs)

 

For what it's worth to others reading on top of this, there is only one kingdom on Epic that can even champ Mag in the first place, and they have 2/3 champ slots taken... one Nathan one Tosiek.  Would have been a 3rd slot taken as Paaweelr but it was bugged and he gave up instead

 

I'll take a god with useful functioning and additional spells over a god with less spells but has 25% more damage.  Like, outside of roleplaying Mag being the MR god and all, the ONLY two reasons to not go Nathan vs Mag (and Nathan has the dmg bonus) is because negative alignment as WL and the bugs that come with it are annoying, and can't catapult unless you champ

Edited by MrGARY

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3 hours ago, bloodmaster said:

Not biggest change to actual combat but very related to pvp due to raiding. A big QoL change would be to make it so when catapulting it tells you either when you get a wall down with a shot and/or you are hitting just a wall plan. As right now it's just guesswork if the wall is down and it gets a little annoying. This small, easy change would make it much more friendly to raid a deed as it takes a lot of the hassle out of shooting at something.

Something I have suggested multiple times in the past, especially when you're trying to hit multi-story buildings as well...

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Just remove player gods and tower capping please. Remove rifts  and farwalker amulets from player versus player servers. Too many people are worried about losing their  dragon armour in a combat scenario to actively go out and seek or receive PvP, whether they are a part of  an attacking or defending group. 

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14 hours ago, bloodmaster said:

Not biggest change to actual combat but very related to pvp due to raiding. A big QoL change would be to make it so when catapulting it tells you either when you get a wall down with a shot and/or you are hitting just a wall plan. As right now it's just guesswork if the wall is down and it gets a little annoying. This small, easy change would make it much more friendly to raid a deed as it takes a lot of the hassle out of shooting at something.

This.

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11 hours ago, Lancelot said:

Just remove player gods and tower capping please. Remove rifts  and farwalker amulets from player versus player servers. Too many people are worried about losing their  dragon armour in a combat scenario to actively go out and seek or receive PvP, whether they are a part of  an attacking or defending group. 

 

farwalker amulets havent been usable in pvp for years now lol

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2 hours ago, Zekezor said:

This.

I think its fine as it is atm. You have 2 options - dont alarm the deed and guess and try to get a visual or pull the alarm and go on deed and check for yourself. So you choose, sure thing + alarm or guessing and no alarm. Both variants will have its ups and downs.

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1 hour ago, Wulfgarr said:

I think its fine as it is atm. You have 2 options - dont alarm the deed and guess and try to get a visual or pull the alarm and go on deed and check for yourself. So you choose, sure thing + alarm or guessing and no alarm. Both variants will have its ups and downs.

By your logic it is unfair it shows what you even hit. Why does it matter going a bit further to make it nicer to show how much damage has been done to what you hit? It makes raiding much nicer and doesn't really give a huge advantage.

Edited by bloodmaster

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[12:34:56]  You seem to have hit the plain stone window of <insert writ name>.

 

That's what the event messages should say.  Shouldn't be too hard to implement, but I think it is more than a QoL change because it addresses one of the chief complaints on Chaos-  raiding deeds takes too long.

 

 

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My last catapulting rework thread was unanimously supported, or well, supported by everyone except madnezz with the generic "why do you want to change anything with wurm? even bugs?" reply

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On 8/13/2016 at 3:10 PM, Lancelot said:

Just remove player gods and tower capping please. Remove rifts  and farwalker amulets from player versus player servers. Too many people are worried about losing their  dragon armour in a combat scenario to actively go out and seek or receive PvP, whether they are a part of  an attacking or defending group. 

 

Just curious, whats the advantage to remove tower capping? It seems like it promotes pvp by making people go out and cap them to gain influence.

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It can potentially make pvp, and has a couple times, but generally doesn't.  Still, the idea is there, but needs a lot of work

 

The problem really with tower capturing was just how many bugs kingdom influence had/has, enabling people to put deeds where they shouldn't have been able to.  By now it's been fixed a lot, but that doesn't revert the damage done to chaos (as it's not really an issue on epic)

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9 hours ago, MrGARY said:

It can potentially make pvp, and has a couple times, but generally doesn't.  Still, the idea is there, but needs a lot of work

 

The problem really with tower capturing was just how many bugs kingdom influence had/has, enabling people to put deeds where they shouldn't have been able to.  By now it's been fixed a lot, but that doesn't revert the damage done to chaos (as it's not really an issue on epic)

If it wasn't for the bug rome would have been able to Place a deed at passage to the North.

Influences didnt update properly so JK placed a deed Before we did in a zone that should have been blocked by the conquered towers. q_q

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8 hours ago, Zekezor said:

If it wasn't for the bug rome would have been able to Place a deed at passage to the North.

Influences didnt update properly so JK placed a deed Before we did in a zone that should have been blocked by the conquered towers. q_q

 

I still don't see this as a reason to remove tower capping. If there is a bug with kingdom incluences, then ask for that to be fixed. As Garry was saying it has the potential to create pvp and thinking back I remember running a good number of traps using towers and battle camps.

Edited by blayze

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6 hours ago, blayze said:

 

I still don't see this as a reason to remove tower capping. If there is a bug with kingdom incluences, then ask for that to be fixed. As Garry was saying it has the potential to create pvp and thinking back I remember running a good number of traps using towers and battle camps.

I dont think its tower capping thats tge issue but more about tge fact that once u cap u can place a deed right away. Chaining towers helped stop that quick placement because u had to destroy towers in the area u wanted to chain to in order to deed.  

 

I would agree with gary that capping towers could bring pvp but perhaps with an additional mini game associated with capping of towers. A timer of sorts after capping a tower that the influence truely becomes the kingdoms and deeding is then possible. 

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The tower influence bug arises from failed recalculation of influence after a tower is captured. However if you just bash the tower you don't have this issue.

 

 

As far as asking for bugs to be fixed, we still have issues from the new permission system still here, so good luck with that.

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1 minute ago, TradingAlt said:

The tower influence bug arises from failed recalculation of influence after a tower is captured. However if you just bash the tower you don't have this issue.

 

 

As far as asking for bugs to be fixed, we still have issues from the new permission system still here, so good luck with that.

 

I'm working on those permission issues reported.

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6 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

I'm working on those permission issues reported.

swell lad, thanks for the update!!!

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  • Spell resistances now last approximately 5 minutes instead of 30 seconds. Same mechanic as previously, if the same spell is cast on a player that has the resistance, the spell has a chance to outright fail. Resistance level ticks down over time.

 

Regarding that mechanic...

Can we have a % reduced healing/dmg power of spells rather than a outright fail?

I'm honestly pretty damn tierd about having RNG dictate battles.

Rather have battles be more about skill than luck.

Also with such a long timer a side effect is that it also makes lesser spells (such as cure light) become a never used spell becouse it may lead to the bigger spells such as LoF and Heal not work in combat...

Ontop of that, can we have the lesser heals be creature targetable (like Heal) which result in a random wound being picked (borrow LoF wound picking mechanic) to heal, thus not requiring us to sit still next to a player and having their equipment window up (something that is nearly impossible in actual combat)

 

In general I disagree with the whole resistance mechanic for heals, I see it as a poor way of handling it. It would be so much better if you just implemented the suggestions in the past which limits abilities to a certain ammount of total healing/dmg, thus making LoF/Scorn/painrain/etc combat utility abilities that doesn't scale infinitively like they currently do.

Thus making a priests abilities only be usefull to a certain extent, rather than allowing for example LoF heal the hitpoints equivalent of like 6+ people in a larger skirmish between forces.

 

 

Actually ya know what?

The ideal would be if the spell resistance reduce healing and scale based on received dmg/healing received (capped at a certain max %). And AoE spells be limited to a total ammount of healing/dmg.

Thus making spells semi-predictable in their performance, not punishing the use of lesser abilities, punishing overuse of a special type of spell, limiting AoE spells from being completely overpowered. At the same time it would promote the use of multiple types of priests rather than "the ideal" since players would want a synergy of various damage types rather than a gazillion of one type.

Edited by Zekezor

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I figure I'll throw my 2 cents in (3 really) since I'm affected by it. I can't find the post I was going to quote but I really agreed with it; It suggested some changes to meditating, fighting skill, and body strength to help get newer players into the game faster.

 

1. I really liked Zeke's body strength curve over the others. I feel bad for the new guys in pvp as is, the older accounts just crush them.

2. I think removing the soft wall at 70 fight skill would help the newer guys catch up in CR. Perhaps making it more gradual slow down around after 70 would be more appropriate than going from progress to crawling. The rate normal skills slow down seems fine for this for hunting. (Like blacksmithing)

3. Meditating, I feel could be made easier in two areas. Better skillgain (there were already great suggestions in here for how to do that) to 70 skill and also lowering those advancement cooldowns to something like 2 months between lvl 1 and 11 instead of 6 months (someone else suggested that already too). I say this having switched from lvl 11 love, to 11 knowledge, to 11 insanity. I think it's pretty ridiculous cooldown times right now for advancing when you already have the skill required. Not my favorite way to spend a year and a half.

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I'm still annoyed that SOTG is a requirement to PvP in this game, especially on Chaos where the PvP revolves around a gatehouse. If you don't have it you might as well not participate.

 

Just the other day Lisabet was fighting us, and in 3 hits with just one-handed weapons she was down to about 20%, we had a guy the other day just get one-hit to 40% HP with just under 59 body.

 

If you dont have it, you die extremely fast. If you don't have it, you get stunned much more often. If you don't have it, you get interrupted almost 5-6x more often. You are quite literally just about useless in combat.

 

 

 

The best part is its not even something that takes skill to grind, its just saying "hey you need to wait six months before you can really get involved, have fun welcome to wurm! xD"

 

 

 

Edited by Propheteer
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Yes, cause a 2 month toon should be just as strong as a 2 year toon.

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10 minutes ago, lolmaster said:

Yes, cause a 2 month toon should be just as strong as a 2 year toon.

 

Nobody suggested that, but if you want to go that route:

 

Huh, i'm pretty sure i have access to an account with just under 80 body and over 100 titles that was made when the current Wild map was released that isn't SOTG, yet, takes more damage from any source by a huge amount compared to Propheteer, which is just about 30 body SOTG. ######, i can put the 80 body account in 90ql plate, and it would still take more damage than propheteer would in 70ql plate.

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, does this seem right to you?

 

 

Edit: From reading your comment, you seem to be suggesting that SOTG is the only thing that really matters if youre comparing a 2month toon to a 2year toon, which is certainly not the case, you know, if you didn't know that already.

Edited by Propheteer

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1 minute ago, lolmaster said:

Yes, cause a 2 month toon should be just as strong as a 2 year toon.

Noone suggested that.

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Hmmm about Alexgopens 90 softcap to DR... After some thinking I disagree with it. It changes balance too much. It's probably better to look at the individual components than a 90 softcap.

More pain in the ass balancing individual DR components, but better in the long run.

Edited by Zekezor
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