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PvP Changes discussion

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Can we start looking at the wider picture?

 

Actual game play changes (what keeps players interested in the game), rather than little changes here and there which affect minor balancing issues?

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1 minute ago, Egard said:

I have to ask just for the sake of this discussion who the hell are you SeeD, which kingdom do you play in ? Cluster ? Just so I can know how to address your replies better, and understand them. 

 

@BuddaThe only really pvp active kingdoms now are MR-Chaos and JK-Chaos both I am sure will take you in and gladly show you everything you need to see to understand better the situation. 

former BL before they got curb stomped

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23 minutes ago, SeeD said:

former BL before they got curb stomped

 

 

Hi Alex

 

 

...joking idk prob Nappy lol

Edited by Omar

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As much as I don't particularly like Budda, you guys really need to lay off of him.

 

The dude is giving it his best, he may not have the experience but at least he's asking questions. 

 

Budda you you just need to communicate better with the community.

 

Lets not shoot down the only dev working on PvP lol 

 

like I asked before can we look at the wider picture of keeping players playing rather than discussing wether we should change cloths speed reduction modifier from 0.5 to 0.55

Edited by Redd
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Oh Im grateful that we have a dev working on pvp and i respect it, I just dont appreciate how quick he/they are to shoot down ideas like a map reset etc even though its supported by a large majority of the playerbase and is no doubt needed.

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Just now, Josh said:

Oh Im grateful that we have a dev working on pvp and i respect it, I just dont appreciate how quick he/they are to shoot down ideas like a map reset etc even though its supported by a large majority of the playerbase and is no doubt needed.

> explains at length how a map reset wont work without balance changes and will cause a temporary spike but return to the same issues

> quick to shoot down map reset supported by a vocal minority

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really glad that the vocal minority has been over 50% on any poll posted

 

numbers, what are they???

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Strangely enough... this thread context is actually spot on historically and religiously...

 

4825217215_11a8e078fa.jpg

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Just now, Oreo said:

really glad that the vocal minority has been over 50% on any poll posted

 

numbers, what are they???

the 300 prems across the epic cluster?

 

 

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Oh, you mean in the game, and not just the people that have voted on the forums?

 

Well, then there is no real data for that then, huh?

Because it hasn't been polled in game.

Edited by Oreo

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1 minute ago, Oreo said:

Oh, you mean in the game, and not just the people that have voted on the forums?

 

Well, then there is no real data for that then, huh?

Because it hasn't been polled in game.

last ingame poll got the original map reset

 

gg

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1 minute ago, SeeD said:

last ingame poll got the original map reset

 

gg

which passed?

hello?

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3 minutes ago, SeeD said:

the 300 prems across the epic cluster?

 

 

Talking about chaos here bud. At this point there is no saving epic and it should honestly just be scrapped. There's a reason we all left epic and came to chaos. Chaos still has a bit of hope. Population got up to 78 yesterday, a number epic hasn't seen in total let alone on a single server since the reset. If fixes are going to be made its here.

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Just wanted to say again, +1 to priest characteristics gainz being un-nerfed!

Edited by Rocklobstar

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2 minutes ago, Rocklobstar said:

I'm just gonna put this here, walk away and see what happens....

 

Since everyone is desperate for actual pvp - how about a 24 hour cool down on karma teleport/insanity teleport/any teleport after a enemy enters your local? 

 

Fixing that issue has been sugested 1000000000000000000 times. yet no change just crappy ideas about DR cap  GG

 

 

And the Epic map reset was still a good idea, it wasnt meant to fix Epic pvp just the old map was wrecked.

 

Edited by Omar
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4 minutes ago, Omar said:

 

Fixing that issue has been sugested 1000000000000000000 times. yet no change just crappy ideas about DR cap  GG

 

 

And the Epic map reset was still a good idea, it wasnt meant to fix Epic pvp just the old map was wrecked.

 

Exactly. Honestly I hear people talk about epic map reset was such a bad thing bla bla. The epic map reset gave elevation life and PvP once again. Granted it wasn't permanent, but it was at least there for a little while. Had that not happened epic would've been officially dead and buried a long time ago. 

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I agree, I honestly appreciate all the work so far and responses. Communicating with the community in this situation is not easy, been in this situation for another game as Dev/PR.  Budda is moving in the right direction. A lot of us posting on this thread have spent countless hours, and money into this game and care for it enough to respond and want it to improve. 

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53 minutes ago, Budda said:

 

And this is why I'm asking questions. Or would you rather we delay these PvP changes another 6 months so I can go play some PvP?

you'd have to pay people to pvp with you because there's no pvp currently

 

the difference between plebs and veterans, you can't really change it much without changing the nature of wurm, less requirements is a good thing, when i started playing on epic 70-75 fs and 30-ish bs was the norm, people ran around in chain, there were no rares and very little moon metals, you really only needed a normal boat, a chainset, pl8 helmet, sword and shield and bow, and about a day spent on grinding fs/shieldskill, and then you were ok, now in order to compete you need lots of money to fund wardeeds even on epic, moonmetal armor and weapons, rare/supreme boats, years of experience and player skill which resembles that, high level priests, crafting alts, stacked valrei items, high meditating

 

wurm pvp isn't cut out for the long-term, eventually the items, skills and player skill gets so stacked that you'll have to spend a year or two grinding in order to not be killed within 10 sec of the engagement, you'll most likely never see any pvp during that grinding time because you'll never be accepted onto a boat and with the current huge maps, there's very little pvp, especially when there's so many safety mechanics (very high speed horses, you'll have to first catch the enemy, stand still and shoot while the enemy is running away at 50kmh).

 

wardeeds every 150 tiles in which you have to catch them between, a huge local which gives them enough time to take a shite and come back to run away before you catch them as you pop their local, karma and general teleport mechanics where you can transport yourself over the entire map, even to a sieged area where the perimeter of the deed is locked down and you've got the choice between finding a way to enter the deed through the enemies, or just teleporting in and risking nothing, destroying what tactics that could be used during sieges, it's the same ###### with general pvp, the local zone combined with the speed of horses gives you little ability to use tactics efficiently as the enemy is 30 sec of safety from a deed, stealthing is pretty much the only viable tactic to catch someone

 

it's not so much the problem that there's a gap, it's that there's no newbies and they weren't integrated well during the new map on epic, if they don't integrate they die, as they'll be left alone with no practical experience and they'll then be swept away by high skilled characters and players that roam alot, and then if they integrate they'll quit because there's no pvp due to the multiple new safety mechanics (water gates, the old info minister, making nolocate useless, huge map which promotes mass-spam of wardeeds) which makes aggressive actions useless, when there's no aggressiveness then nothing ever happens as neither side creates any encounters, eventually the server(s) stagnates and the pvp population leaves

 

in the end in order for pvp to happen you need to encourage aggressive action, if the players thinks it's not worth it to spend time or resources to be aggressive they won't do anything, if there's too many safety measures then they won't catch anyone while they're being aggressive, they'll decide to not do that again and then there's nothing to react to for the enemies, no pvp happens

Edited by changer
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25 minutes ago, SeeD said:

last ingame poll got the original map reset

 

gg

even though the old map was comfy as fug, change was needed, especially with the ###### terrain on hota, and it was asked for, but instead of a gud new map we got a chokepoint TM map that only led to further stagnation

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1 hour ago, Redd said:

 

 

like I asked before can we look at the wider picture of keeping players playing rather than discussing wether we should change cloths speed reduction modifier from 0.5 to 0.55

this t b h radical stuff has to happen, the king is taking our food supply and we need a napoleon to roll out the guillotine for the frogs

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2 minutes ago, changer said:

this t b h radical stuff has to happen, the king is taking our food supply and we need a napoleon to roll out the guillotine for the frogs

And Budda up a radical suggestion :P

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1 hour ago, Redd said:

Can we start looking at the wider picture?

 

Actual game play changes (what keeps players interested in the game), rather than little changes here and there which affect minor balancing issues?

This, yes please

how about start with ingame poll for tower changes? then slowly work toward other stuff

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37 minutes ago, changer said:

in the end in order for pvp to happen you need to encourage aggressive action, if the players thinks it's not worth it to spend time or resources to be aggressive they won't do anything, if there's too many safety measures then they won't catch anyone while they're being aggressive, they'll decide to not do that again and then there's nothing to react to for the enemies, no pvp happens

 

Actually that is what has killed PvP, basically all the safety measures have been removed. That makes people extremely cautious to the point, where they simply stop roaming, because there is no room for error. You go and fight ONLY when you are certain to win. If you give them means to escape, they can fool around and when crap hits the fan, they can run(of course escape shouldn't be 100% successful).

 

About changing armor defence values.. What is OP in one situation, is equaliser in another.

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What surprises me about PvPers is how afraid they are to lose items, perhaps full loot PvP is the issue and some sort of partial loot system would be better? New players dont lose everything, dying carries less loss, and no need for res stones

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27 minutes ago, rixk said:

 

Actually that is what has killed PvP, basically all the safety measures have been removed. That makes people extremely cautious to the point, where they simply stop roaming, because there is no room for error. You go and fight ONLY when you are certain to win. If you give them means to escape, they can fool around and when crap hits the fan, they can run(of course escape shouldn't be 100% successful).

 

About changing armor defence values.. What is OP in one situation, is equaliser in another.

Are you saying that it's more dangerous now than in pvp primetime in 2013/2014?

 

lets see the difference, in 2013/2014 which was the primetime for pvp on epic, there were little to no wardeeds which players could retreat to, there were no water gates or water buildings to restrict enemies on your homeserver, nolocate actually worked which made it easier for enemies to run around, there were limited amounts of rare/supreme horsegear which makes horses faster, which gives more time for players to use archery and to use positioning tactics

 

if I afked on hota in 2013/2014 i wouldn't last 3 hours, if i afk on hota today i'd probably last until the server is restarted, whenever that is, safety is stagnation, aggressive action is pvp, if there is no aggressive action there is no responsive action, there is no pvp without aggressiveness, there is no aggressiveness without incentive for aggression, such as enemy territories which are easy/close/unprotected

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