Posted July 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Shmeric said: Also, a big NO for flying mounts. Every game has them, Wurm needs something different. What exactly, you may ask? Airships, dude. AIRSHIPS! Reveal hidden contents ... one can dream... Only if they work with crossing servers ^^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 26, 2016 On 25.07.2016 at 6:33 AM, Ostentatio said: Jumping would already be possible in the current system, considering we have 3D collision. You can already do similar things by way of, say, bouncing off the side of a cliff. Just food for thought. A heightmap with certain values at each node is much, much easier to store and handle than any sort of "true" 3D representation, with overhangs and such. It works in Minecraft because Minecraft uses a very fundamentally different voxel-based approach to the problem. It really doesn't apply much here. Heightmap like the one Wurm uses takes only several hundreds of megabytes in memory, but when you want to add 3rd dimension to that... Even using special techniques on MMO scale this would require several dozens or hundreds of gigabytes of RAM. Of course everything depends on implementation, but most memory-efficient solutions also tend to be very hard to maintain/expand and cpu-heavy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 26, 2016 4 hours ago, akaedis said: Only if they work with crossing servers ^^ and have a chance to blow up causing a loss of all the cargo, that'd be fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 26, 2016 6 hours ago, Arium said: and have a chance to blow up causing a loss of all the cargo, that'd be fun 11/10 would so play. Wurm never has anything un expected happen, Well maybe the off chance a unique comes by but thats it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 27, 2016 7 hours ago, akaedis said: 11/10 would so play. Wurm never has anything un expected happen, Well maybe the off chance a unique comes by but thats it. Try afk-sailing a cog into a sea serpent with bad wind 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 27, 2016 Aiiiirshiiiiips.... Make the "cabin" 20x5 and charge for operating it it 1s a month like a deed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 27, 2016 Please, stop using the phrase "3D" to mean you want volumetric terrain and caves. From a developer's standpoint, or anyone who knows what 3D means, you sound ignorant and it grinds my gears. It's like people calling the case of all your computer a CPU, it's amazing people still do that. 3D means the graphics have height, length and depth, so Wurm is 3D. ALL GAMES like Call of Duty, World of Warcraft and the old Tomb Raider are 3D games, as their graphics are NOT flat images drawn on the screen. Games like the old Ultima Online are 2D, as they have images for graphics and nothing more, and the new Ultima (can you even use that phrase anymore?) has yes, 2.5D, as they have 3D graphics on a 2D flat images map. Wurm is a 3D game that uses a variable heightmap that's streamed from the server which your client then draws in realtime (this is why you get that odd lag from time to time). It, and all the avatars and objects in the game have height, length and depth. So Wurm is a 3D game. What you want are features, like jumping, or volumetric (voxel-like, or marching cubes) terrain. Ask for that, not "true 3D" because you sound stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 27, 2016 I think jumping onto a deed should be disallowed, Similar to dumping dirt, If it's not gonna work it just doesn't happen. Any animals in tow should immediately be released upon jumping, To discourage stealing from players that live off deed. Come to think of it, Jumping should never be allowed over walls of any kind. On or off deed. Even if your falling off of a cliff. Actual moving water in wurm would be great. But I would like to see some sort of river travel possible. Flying would be a nice thing if it wasn't reserved just for people that do nothing but hunt those creatures. I can tell you right now there will never come a day when i'm willing to pay the rediculous prices people would charge for something like this. It would be nice to see a travel system where you can fly from one deed to another for a small fee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 27, 2016 On 7/26/2016 at 0:03 PM, Shmeric said: I don't see much point in jumping. All the low fences will become pretty much obsolete unless the "jump" would be somewhat unrealistically limited and not allow you to jump over them just because. Flowing water, and water tiles above zero-level in general, now that I would like. We've got transformation liquids, we've got divining, add them together and woila! there's a pond Also, a big NO for flying mounts. Every game has them, Wurm needs something different. What exactly, you may ask? Airships, dude. AIRSHIPS! Reveal hidden contents ... one can dream... Also the magic turrets now act as AA. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 On 7/24/2016 at 1:15 PM, enoofu said: we could give you the possibility to fly in various ways. At one point you could dominate dragons. However, I don't know if you could actually fly though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) Even if it required a complete reset of the underground, I'm all for an upgraded underground map. Always been up for jumping and sprinting, long as they are limited by stamina. On 7/26/2016 at 2:39 AM, Yaga said: Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. In our "Wurm Astronomers" group we discussed this to some extent, because the passing of Wurm time seems somewhat paradoxical. The character's speed is actually displayed in the status window and is based on real time. Also every action a character takes implies that Wurm time actually flows at RL speed. (If not, we would be slow as snails in everything we do.) On the other hand, we all know that Wurm "days" are 8 times shorter than Earth days, and that plants and animals also seem to grow 8 times faster than they would in real life. Following the principle of "Occam's Razor" the best theory to solve this apparent paradox is this: physical Wurm time actually passes at the same rate as RL time, but the planet Wurm rotates 8 times faster than Earth, so one rotation takes place in 3 hours real time. (In addition, the orbital period of the planet around Sol is also a lot smaller than that of Earth.) Therefore the units for measuring time in the Wurm universe have been decreased by a factor of 8, so that we define "1 Wurm hour" (= 7.5 RL minutes) to be 1/24 of a "Wurm day". Thus we can fit 24 Wurm hours in one Wurm day, as we are used to. The accelerated growth of living things in Wurm's nature can be attributed to the rapid rotation of the planet itself. Experiencing the 4 seasons of an entire Wurm year in only 1.5 RL months has made everything grow faster! TLDR: Physical time in the Wurm universe flows at the same rate as our RL time. We are only using smaller units of measurement to account for the rapid rotation of the planet Wurm. Ignoring of course... the drastic planetary tilt that would theoretically KILL US all! Granted the tilt calculations were based off of a presumption of a singular star system similar to our own in RL, along with the positions of observed sun rise and sunset. Personally I still subscribe to the theory that Wurm is a convex disc supported by four cardinal-point elephants riding on the back of a space-faring sea turtle. Edited July 28, 2016 by Klaa 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 27 minutes ago, Klaa said: Wurm is a convex disc supported by four cardinal-point elephants riding on the back of a space-faring sea turtle. But it is, no doubt at all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 There is no room for the 4 cardinal point cave bug theory then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 On 7/26/2016 at 7:31 AM, Warlander said: Heightmap like the one Wurm uses takes only several hundreds of megabytes in memory, but when you want to add 3rd dimension to that... Even using special techniques on MMO scale this would require several dozens or hundreds of gigabytes of RAM. Of course everything depends on implementation, but most memory-efficient solutions also tend to be very hard to maintain/expand and cpu-heavy. Buff the server hamsters... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 Fair enough... VOLUMETRIC. To my understanding, that's Java's ultimate weak point in game development. Honestly, best bet is start coding Wurm 2.0 in *lets all hell break loose discussing best engine*. Keep WU as "Vanilla" and let modders "dev" it from then on. Maybe even have CC host its own "Classic as heck" server cluster for near or at old prices just to keep that revenue. Spend the time coding Wurm 2.0 wisely, deeply in touch with the community. Let the first official servers for that new MMO be picked over weeks or months by the community from as many maps as ppl can submit. Hell even I managed a gorgeous one, may online it someday on a Wurm break tbh. Advertise. Consider diversifying as you'd be toying with a "Minecraft Killer" potentially. So "normal" PvE and PvP good ol' wurmian clusters of course, but add a "Theme Park" third set somehow with bit more queeeests and Riiiifts and such so you don't end up relying on a "WU" again. Be better prepared to monetize the new version a bit. Face it, gamers love fluff and that's easy company money. I favor the approach of buying RECIPES then crafting the "store" stuff with certain requirements both skills and mats. HAVE CLEAR GRIEFING AND SUCH RULES. Not trying to start a fight but *points at million threads on it* let's stick to 3D Volumetric Wurm. SPECIALLY if we start considering flight and jumping... modern MMO's need jumping let's be honest, not all fences can be unjumpable. Clear, "for dummies" deed permission system eeeeh, specially if you wanna widen your market audience a bit. Blimps and air citadels for "air deeds" if flight, ffs. Start on a land deed, someday decide to disband because after 6 months of gathering/buying mats and building you finally have finished building your 6-story 1000ish tiles of air deed (needs to have upkeep paid to fly/have decay protection). Customizing ALL vehicles for more speed or more load, that kind of awesome sandboxeyness. Well.. there went my 2 coppers turned into 37.25s + shipping. /rantoff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 28, 2016 7 hours ago, Mordraug said: Fair enough... VOLUMETRIC. To my understanding, that's Java's ultimate weak point in game development. Honestly, best bet is start coding Wurm 2.0 in *lets all hell break loose discussing best engine*. Keep WU as "Vanilla" and let modders "dev" it from then on. Maybe even have CC host its own "Classic as heck" server cluster for near or at old prices just to keep that revenue. Spend the time coding Wurm 2.0 wisely, deeply in touch with the community. No. Please stop. Volumetric maps in Wurm Online, done in any style remotely recognizable as being Wurm, will take exponentially more memory and require the program to sort through exponentially more map-related data. You were just told this. This has nothing to do with the specific programming language used. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 29, 2016 But... but... airships could be 200 meters tall figures with 170 meter invisible base and 30 meters visible top model, move at similar wogical speed as normal ships and ignore terrain and obstacles. Don't kill the dream! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 29, 2016 14 hours ago, Ostentatio said: No. Please stop. Volumetric maps in Wurm Online, done in any style remotely recognizable as being Wurm, will take exponentially more memory and require the program to sort through exponentially more map-related data. You were just told this. This has nothing to do with the specific programming language used. Comes down to the engine used more than the language.. by now there's got to be something efficient enough to pull it off... though the age of "run Wurm in any old machine" would be over for sure, no arguing there. But hey, even Runescape finally gave up on Java. It's great for lighter stuff but MMO's don't use it more for a reason... think about it, pretty much everything is Java compatible, yet it's not the "norm". My other reason to advocate ditching the Java classic Wurm is well.. spaghetti code. Building it from scratch with current Wurm as a "guideline" as opposed to making a new game from thin air SHOULD lead to something relatively streamlined with devs having an idea of what to avoid THIS TIME to not get cornered by their own code later on. Also way more systems being built in a single run as opposed to Wurm's current bunch of stuff added to old code then duct taped together. And it's gonna look hella different of course, thinking tiles being hexagons instead of squares this time for example (need one explain?). Why classic WO should never fully be phased out, has its own niche. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 29, 2016 4 hours ago, Mordraug said: spaghetti code As someone who seen source code from quite a few games, writen in everything from x86 assembly to C (C++, C#, ObjC) to Java to Python... I'm yet to see one that wasn't spaghetti code. On 7/28/2016 at 6:47 PM, Mordraug said: Java's ultimate weak point in game development That's why the #1 best selling PC game EVER is written in Java. *facepalm* 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 29, 2016 52 minutes ago, bdew said: As someone who seen source code from quite a few games, writen in everything from x86 assembly to C (C++, C#, ObjC) to Java to Python... I'm yet to see one that wasn't spaghetti code. From my personal observation, almost all gamedevs are mostly self-taught enthusiasts, often lacking knowledge of good practices, code quality, various terms/rules etc... They seem to do relatively fine without that anyway, I think that sticking to good practices can do both good or harm depending on circumstances (good code takes much longer to write, but much shorter to fix/maintain and easier to remember in brain long-term memory). 52 minutes ago, bdew said: That's why the #1 best selling PC game EVER is written in Java. *facepalm* I guess this is because Notch knows Java best, and it is pretty suitable for fast game prototyping when you written other prototypes or studied code of other Java games already (due to insane code reuse capabilities Java gives, as well as literally thousands of available libraries/engines). And yep, language is non-issue at all, most people would be most likely surprised how many MMO servers are running on Java or have Java elements in their clients. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 29, 2016 3 hours ago, bdew said: As someone who seen source code from quite a few games, writen in everything from x86 assembly to C (C++, C#, ObjC) to Java to Python... I'm yet to see one that wasn't spaghetti code. That's why the #1 best selling PC game EVER is written in Java. *facepalm* Trust me, Minecraft is not popular because it as written in Java, or for its implementation in general. It's the actual gameplay. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2016 It can be done, even in Java. Minecraft does it pretty well. As stated earlier though, it would require a complete re-write of the server and client, as the current terrain and cavern systems would have to be ditched and are probably so ingrained into the code that a re-write would be the only solution. I would suggest writing the server in C++ and keep the client in Java, or use Unity (I can help with that) or Unreal Engine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) Post created by misclick. Edited July 30, 2016 by Darmalus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, Warlander said: From my personal observation, almost all gamedevs are mostly self-taught enthusiasts, often lacking knowledge of good practices, code quality, various terms/rules etc... They seem to do relatively fine without that anyway, I think that sticking to good practices can do both good or harm depending on circumstances (good code takes much longer to write, but much shorter to fix/maintain and easier to remember in brain long-term memory). I guess this is because Notch knows Java best, and it is pretty suitable for fast game prototyping when you written other prototypes or studied code of other Java games already (due to insane code reuse capabilities Java gives, as well as literally thousands of available libraries/engines). And yep, language is non-issue at all, most people would be most likely surprised how many MMO servers are running on Java or have Java elements in their clients. I dont know, what y mean by knowledge of good practices. But for me, close code and copyright practices are death and belong to last century. Now its open-source time, that means y can share common code for all and keep private data secure. Now many applications try to run on blockchain, which offers secure data and open source system. In such systems any can grab that code and use it for is own. Many game crash now on close code, because they must steal good ideas and start from zero points and usually team dont have so much power to finish large projects. Open source is necessary future for new games, where anyone can join to work on game without any label of dev, without any unlock game, without any breaking rules. If it imagine in mmo game, y can store characters data in secure blockchain and client and server data can be opensource, which only access to private data. So anybody can improve it of its ideas by grabbing opensource code game, data store secure separately and usefull for any engine model, any environment and language differs. Please stop be moron and open your mind to public. Edited July 30, 2016 by ftoz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) Warlander is most likely referring to the kind of code practices and conventions used in design and documentation within the actual sourcecode. The sort of practices taught in academic circles to software engineers to facilitate development work on large projects involving teams of programmers. Self-taught enthusiasts tend to do things their own different ways, which can lead to issues on large complex projects. For example, being able to quickly discern what a particular algorithm is intended to accomplish when written by another, let alone trying to recall one's own work and thought process later down the road. We humans are not mind-readers. Edited July 30, 2016 by Klaa 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
