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Budda

Public PvP Changes Testing Feedback

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12 hours ago, Redd said:

 

Theres quite a lot of opposition to that mechanic change, perhaps a vote/debate on it is needed.

I've seen opposition against far more severe restrictions suggested in the suggestion board. (such as preventing karma teleporting for 8 hours after a deed alarm is triggered)

But not against simply having a 24h cd after joining a village.

Relevant thread:

 

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Changes as at 26/08:

  • Tweaked special move damage higher (2.5x higher than what it was)
  • Possible fix for village invite being blocked when inside an unrelated village.
  • Possible fix for not being able to lockpick a friendly structure in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for catapulting friendly kingdom villages in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for not being able to do a not-allowed action on deed with no guards present.
  • Possible fix for equip timers not acting as expected when in combat.
  • Fix stun timers not ticking down and removing as they should.
  • Removed the shooting at boats feature.
  • Changed the calculations for boat speed bonuses.
    • PvP servers will get 9/12 bonus from seats occupied, and 3/12 bonus from QL.
    • PvE servers will get 3/12 bonus from seats occupied, and 9/12 bonus from QL.
  • Increased difficulty of blocking arrows with a shield when positioned in the right angle to the attacker: re: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/143437-public-pvp-changes-testing-feedback/&do=findComment&comment=1479533
    • Difficulty reduction from shield type now takes QL and damage of the shield into account.
  • Added curve modifier to wound damage reduced via Body Strength for PvP damage only
  • Removed stacking of Web Armour speed modifier and Hurting Status speed modifier. Higher of the two will now take effect.
  • Swing timer modifier from Web Armour now a multiplier of base swing timer instead of flat seconds added.
  • Web Armour debuff should now apply for a more reliable time instead of clearing semi-randomly.
  • Fix range limit of continuing on buildings to 2 tiles.
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51 minutes ago, Budda said:

Changes as at 26/08:

Uh.... ya mean damage taken? O.o

 

edit: ok ###### this forum. it keeps breaking links. ill have to put it in plain text.

the damage reduction you want to link is probably www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y%3D(0.15+*+log(x+*+0.8+-+15))+where+20<x<100

Current: www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y%3D(x%2F100)-0.2+where+20<x<100

Edited by Zekezor

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13 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Uh.... ya mean damage taken? O.o

 

cuz the damage reduction you want to link is probably www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y%3D(0.15+*+log(x+*+0.8+-+15))+where+20<x<100

Current: www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y%3D(0.15+*+log(x+*+0.8+-+15))+where+20<x<100

 

Yes, taken technically. It's flipped in code compared to the curves we've been talking about. Works out via (damage * modifier).

 

EDIT: Sorry, just realised the "Was" calculation was wrong, was actually meant to write (120-BS)/100 - that might make more sense.

 

Once again a reminder to everyone that this thread is specifically for testing feedback. Discussion can be had in the thread in Town Square.

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feed back; karma mechanic is good to go live? From 3 different scenarios tested, leaving village rejoining and trying to karma didn't work, leaving a different village joining new, didn't work, I couldn't test the third which was recall home after joining a village. Need help with path level but somebody said it shares the same cd

Edited by Mclovin

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Question.

How are we supposed to test the BS change if we got no way of adjusting our stats? (it's been requested but never actually implemented)

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8 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

Question.

How are we supposed to test the BS change if we got no way of adjusting our stats? (it's been requested but never actually implemented)

 

Just added a way to via the Test window (same as setting skills) - should be there after the next update (next couple of hours probably).

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1 hour ago, Budda said:

Changes as at 26/08:

  • Tweaked special move damage higher (2.5x higher than what it was)
  • Possible fix for village invite being blocked when inside an unrelated village.
  • Possible fix for not being able to lockpick a friendly structure in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for catapulting friendly kingdom villages in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for not being able to do a not-allowed action on deed with no guards present.
  • Possible fix for equip timers not acting as expected when in combat.
  • Fix stun timers not ticking down and removing as they should.
  • Removed the shooting at boats feature.
  • Changed the calculations for boat speed bonuses.
    • PvP servers will get 9/12 bonus from seats occupied, and 3/12 bonus from QL.
    • PvE servers will get 3/12 bonus from seats occupied, and 9/12 bonus from QL.
  • Increased difficulty of blocking arrows with a shield when positioned in the right angle to the attacker: re: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/143437-public-pvp-changes-testing-feedback/&do=findComment&comment=1479533
    • Difficulty reduction from shield type now takes QL and damage of the shield into account.
  • Added curve modifier to wound damage reduced via Body Strength for PvP damage only
  • Removed stacking of Web Armour speed modifier and Hurting Status speed modifier. Higher of the two will now take effect.
  • Swing timer modifier from Web Armour now a multiplier of base swing timer instead of flat seconds added.
  • Web Armour debuff should now apply for a more reliable time instead of clearing semi-randomly.
  • Fix range limit of continuing on buildings to 2 tiles.

Thanks for continue to listen and adjusting changes and removing some as well. 

 

Can anyone elaborate on the curve modifier to wound damage.. Also any sort of examples on how this can play out. I didnt/dont have much time to sink my brain into this nor will be able to test it in anyway for at least a week. Thanks

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1 hour ago, Budda said:

Fix range limit of continuing on buildings to 2 tiles.

This was not fixed.

Atm its 1-tile range for initial construction, 2-tile range for starting a continuation action, 4-tile range for completion of a continuation action (queued or not).

Spoiler

 

 

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1 hour ago, Budda said:

 

Just added a way to via the Test window (same as setting skills) - should be there after the next update (next couple of hours probably).

Could you add the ability to pick priesthood and favor level while at it so we can test WA? :D

(GM's got the commands already, rip some code~)

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27 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

This was not fixed.

Atm its 1-tile range for initial construction, 2-tile range for starting a continuation action, 4-tile range for completion of a continuation action (queued or not).

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Just to be certain, are you testing on the pvp test server Onashores?  There is a portal from Spawn town you can take.  

 

Bridges is the pve test server.

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17 minutes ago, Alectrys said:

 

Just to be certain, are you testing on the pvp test server Onashores?  There is a portal from Spawn town you can take.  

 

Bridges is the pve test server.

... so you are saying the CONSTRUCTION CHANGES arent applied to all test servers...?

edit: same result on pvp.

Edited by Zekezor

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4 minutes ago, Zekezor said:

... so you are saying the CONSTRUCTION CHANGES arent applied to all test servers...?

 

The pvp feedback related changes are being applied to Onashores only currently.  That does not mean once things are sorted out that they won't be applied to pve as well.  For right now, Onashores test server is the updated one for feedback testing.

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2 hours ago, Budda said:

Fix range limit of continuing on buildings to 2 tiles.

 

Budda, by buildings did you mean only buildings?  Zekezor tested fences and continuing and indicates it still fails.  Can you clarify?

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18 minutes ago, Alectrys said:

 

Budda, by buildings did you mean only buildings?  Zekezor tested fences and continuing and indicates it still fails.  Can you clarify?

Spoiler

 

 

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Can we get more arrows spawned in for testing the shield changes (or a way to spawn them). The only ones left are a few low ql ones.

 

Found some at 60ql, please delete

Edited by blayze

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There seems to be a bug with equipping which makes it so you cant equip over any armor that is already in place. See the video below.

 

 

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Testing

Testing shield changes at the optimal angle (90 deg on the left). 

 

Attacker 50 skill, 25bc, 70ql bow, 60ql arrows, no armor

Defender 75 skill, 37bc, 70ql plate, 20ql shield

 

Arrows shot: 94

Arrows block with shield:  38

Arrows hit: 11

Arrows that did damage: 10

Arrows Missed: 45

Shield Block Chance (excluding arrow misses): 77%

Block Chance (including glances): 79%

Total Miss Rate (including misses): 89%

 

 

Attacker 85 skill, 25bc, 70ql bow (no enchants), 60ql arrows, no armor

Defender 80 skill, 40bc, 70ql plate, 90ql shield

 

Arrows shot: 94

Arrows block with shield: 79

Arrows hit: 2

Arrows that did damage: 0

Arrows Missed: 13

Shield Block Chance (excluding arrow misses): 97.5%

Block Chance (including glances): 100%

Total Miss Rate (including misses): 100%

 

 

Attacker 85 skill, 25bc, 70ql bow (no enchants), 60ql arrows, no armor

Defender 50 skill, 25bc, 70ql plate, 90ql shield

 

Arrows shot: 94

Arrows block with shield: 65

Arrows hit: 7

Arrows that did damage: 5

Arrows Missed: 22

Shield Block Chance (excluding arrow misses): 90.2%

Block Chance (including glances): 93%

Total Miss Rate (including misses): 94.6%

 

 

Ill look at this more later and edit this post See below

 

Feedback

 

It seems like there is still the same problem of a crazy high block rate but its now shifted more towards the top end accounts. After looking at the code and doing quite a bit of testing it seems like changing the difficulty of the shield block check might not be the right direction. (I do like the quality check though).

 

The check for the shield block using the skill check function with uses the rollGaussin which takes into affect the skill and the difficulty. In the case for the shield block, the defender shield skill and the difficulty of blocking (archery power, shield size, moment, ect). If the roll is above 0 you block, if its below you get hit.

 

The problem with this setup is that as you start going to 100 skill the block rate also starts going to 100% and quite fast. I pragmatically tested the wurm rollGaussin function over a 100k attempts per level and generated a graph for the level/difficulty to block rate, see below.

 

Note: Hit chance is 0 to 1 which is related to 0% to 100% (hit chance * 100 = hit chance percent)

 

cd6fdb86f6.png

 

So even if you increase the difficult, the block rate will remain high for top end account. It also makes it harder for new players as they will be blocking less than before the change. This would just increase the gap between old players and new players, making it harder for new people to get into pvp.

 

What would be better would be to have a upper limit on the block rate. However you have to be really careful to not make it too easy as that can break even more things (boats, raiding and general pvp). With the graph below, player would have a average max block chance of 92% as skill goes to 100. Also keep in mind that this is not the final check as there is also a armor glance check after the shield block check so the true block rate is even higher than the graph below.

 

ef3affb607.png

 

 

To add the limit just change the code below from

if (defCheck > 0) {
    parriedShield = true;
}

To

if (defCheck > 0 & Server.rand.nextFloat() < 0.08f){
    parriedShield = true;
}

The 0.08 would be how much to take off of the max average block chance.

Edited by blayze

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90 in all skills (attacker & defender), 95ql willow longbow with 95 nimbleness at 20 tiles with 95ql string and 90ql war arrows at night. Excluding missed shoots. Counting armor glances as a hit.

6.25% hit chance out of 96 arrows.

 

same as above but 50 shield skill.

21.8% hit chance out of 66 arrows.

Edited by Zekezor

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Well ya messed up WA. It's permanent. It won't go away.

at 90 WA it reduced movement speed by ~70%. Hurt status and WA didnt stack.

Didnt test swing timers, too sleepy. I'll have a look tommorow if noone else already has.

Edited by Zekezor

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Onashores is updated with the stat change thing Budda did earlier!

 

That's about as technical as I'm getting at the moment.

 

Potato.

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Well as I can see from short testing that its bugged and or not giving all the numbers on test server.

 

I shot an arrow and passed the archery roll yet it still got blocked.

 

[18:26:00] Difficulty=72, of which deviation=41.380141535879545, bonus=88.0, power=73.37760925292969 (example where I succeeded and still got blocked)

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I can say that I think special moves are in a better spot, you won't have to worry about players getting stunlocked until they die because the stuns are very brief or they sometimes don't happen at all due to resistances.

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11 hours ago, Budda said:

Changes as at 26/08:

  • Possible fix for not being able to lockpick a friendly structure in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for catapulting friendly kingdom villages in PvP servers.
  • Possible fix for not being able to do a not-allowed action on deed with no guards present.

 

Was unable to lockpick on a same kingdom deed that disallowed it.  Even going unlawful would yield this message and not let me begin the action:

[20:38:44] The guards kindly inform you that you are not allowed to do that here.

I should be able to go unlawful and begin the action, thus KOS'ing me and aggroing the templar.  When the templar is dead I should be able to continue lockpicking.

The fact that it didn't KOS me automatically means it's still impossible to lockpick same kingdom, because I couldn't target the templar at my own will to kill it. Attempting to target a same kingdom templar yields this message:

[20:35:34] You will not target a Spirit shadow.

 

Catapulting a friendly deed properly allowed me to damage the walls as expected, and KOS'ed me as expected.  This is working now

 

I was able to take items from the ground on a deed that didn't allow it when no guards were present, but when the guard is present you are not able to target it to kill it, or go unlawful to do it.  You should be able to try to steal when unlawful and based on your stealing skill possibly succeed without the templar detecting you, or otherwise get attacked by the templar and be immediately KOS'ed.  The issue mentioned above where you are not able to first target the templar to kill it is relevant here, because you cannot even attempt to break the law if it is alive, but you cannot kill it without first being KOS'ed.  Also, many right click menus are lacking options that should be allowed if unlawful.  When right clicking, the options of lead, embark driver, embark passenger, and drag are not present if they would be unlawful actions, however they can be accomplished in unlawful via keybinds if the templar is dead.  The options should be present even if they are unlawful, but mention that you must go unlawful if you attempt to do them, and then if you do go unlawful and do them, they should aggro the templar and KOS you.  All actions should be allowed if the templar is dead, and all actions should be present in the right click menus, whether they are lawful or not. 

 

 

It looks like we're making some progress here but the right click menus need to be fixed, and we need to be able to target and kill templars by initiating the fight, rather than having to somehow get on KOS first to kill the templar when most unlawful actions are impossible when it is alive.  Unlawful actions need to be possible to do when in unlawful mode, and should immediately aggro the templar and KOS you. 

 

 

Additionally: I was not able to equip any armor in combat using the dragging to paperdoll method.

[20:48:28] You cannot equip that.

Trying to use right click>equip would sometimes give a timer but at the end of the timer nothing happened, and the armor was not equipped.  Other times it would not let you right click>equip, and it would give the [20:48:28] You cannot equip that. message.

 

Dragging to paperdoll will not work until 2 minutes after having left combat. 

Edited by Alexgopen

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9 hours ago, Alectrys said:

 

Budda, by buildings did you mean only buildings?  Zekezor tested fences and continuing and indicates it still fails.  Can you clarify?

 

Yes just buildings sorry. Will have another go at fixing it for both.

EDIT: Possibly fixed in next update.

 

3 hours ago, Zekezor said:

Well ya messed up WA. It's permanent. It won't go away.

at 90 WA it reduced movement speed by ~70%. Hurt status and WA didnt stack.

Didnt test swing timers, too sleepy. I'll have a look tommorow if noone else already has.

 

Fixed in next update.

 

Equip timers should be working properly in next update.

 

2 hours ago, TradingAlt said:

Well as I can see from short testing that its bugged and or not giving all the numbers on test server.

 

I shot an arrow and passed the archery roll yet it still got blocked.

 

[18:26:00] Difficulty=72, of which deviation=41.380141535879545, bonus=88.0, power=73.37760925292969 (example where I succeeded and still got blocked)

 

Blocking is still possible. Archery does a roll to hit, which you passed, then if the defender is facing the correct direction they get a roll to block. I've tweaked the difficulty of the defenders roll to be harder than it was, since before it was apparently working out to be a 99% block rate.

 

Quote

20:35:34] You will not target a Spirit shadow.

 

That should only come up if you're attacking your own village from what I can see. Doesn't look like it is blocked when trying to target guards in other villages.

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