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DLM

Realistic or not?

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Since quite a few years, I do play games where I am able to make a small IRL profit (not living out of games, but just making some extra money which my wife doesn't know about - nothing big, just something like $20-$30 per month), while still enjoying the game itself.

 

A few weeks ago, a friend from Entropia mentioned WURM and managed to make me interested enough to Google to find more about it, and I have to say I'm quite impressed with some movies about the game, made by two players.

 

I do know that, theoretically, one could cash out some money out of the game by selling coins for dollars to other players, but my question is how realistic is to expect to make enough to pay for one's premium account and still be left at the end of the month with $20-$30? Could someone playing about 4-6 hours per day make at least $1 per day? later edit: without turning into a clicker slave, so while still skilling up and having some fun

Edited by DLM
added later edit section

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As a brand new player it may be difficult but with some determination, your goal is not at all unrealistic. Be careful though because if you spend all your time working for coin you will miss out on a lot of the fun experiences that this game offers. 

 

My advice is to buy premium for the first while and enjoy the game. Find the activities that you like best and develop your skills. Learn about the market by reading trade chat and the forums and find your niche based on the things you enjoy doing.

 

Welcome to Wurm!

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Wanted you to know that alot of people have gotten burned mainly by one person atm for goods and services they sold him in game for paypal money.  Paypal ruled for the players, but the guys credit card company did not. They not only lost their money owed them, they had to pay a processing fee to paypal that was incurred by the credit card company.   The game does not offer any support for out of game transactions. Just want you to be fully informed.

Edited by Lolabelle

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Your plans to make 1$ IRL profit per day by playing this game sounds more like IRL loss to me. Trust me, it aint worth it because youre not having fun while playing.

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5 minutes ago, Lolabelle said:

Wanted you to know that alot of people have gotten burned mainly by one person atm for goods and services they sold him in game for paypal money.  Paypal ruled for the players, but the guys credit card company did not. They not only lost their money owed them, they had to pay a processing fee to paypal that was incurred by the credit card company.   The game does not offer any support for out of game transactions. Just want you to be fully informed.

 

Yeah, I've read about that "Niru case" during these few days while I dug about the game, but I don't find it fair to judge a community of mostly honest people in a negative way just because of one bad apple (although a really rotten one if you ask me), so in this regards I would be willing to take my chance.

 

So to me is only (or at least mostly) down to the question how realistic it is to expect to make that bit of extra money (~$25 per month) while still skilling up and having some fun, which is something I now can do in either Eve or Entropia.

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Nope, you will be a clicker slave if you want to make 50c an hour.  You're better off going to get a 2nd job.

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negative nancys aside, it really depends on what you want to do.

 

Mcgarnicle has the best suggestion, try out the game for free for a bit, learn what you want to do, and then work out how to make money from that. setting out to make money from the get go only winds up feeling forced, and not enjoying the game.

 

ive often found those that brag about making money in this game are often the ones that complain about being bored or about the amount of effort the game requires.

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I love this game and I am not being a negative nancy. I just want him to know if he is playing to make cash, he will have no support from Code Club or Paypal should he have issue.

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23 minutes ago, Lolabelle said:

I love this game and I am not being a negative nancy. I just want him to know if he is playing to make cash, he will have no support from Code Club or Paypal should he have issue.

Considering they never supported it in the first place, merely allowed it, I don't see the relevancy in your post, except to continue to stir up dissatisfaction

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in reality working 30 minutes a week at a gas station will pay more then 30 hours a week playing wurm. since selling silver can be dodgy and is not regulated and prices fluctuate etc, also its very grindy to do so.

but if you have time to burn, don't like gas station and don't mind making less then a Chinese sweat shop worker then its possible for sure ;)

 

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What you all said makes a lot of sense and is almost a truism that working IRL is much more financial rewarding than playing a game; I'm not contesting or debating that. Is just that no matter how much or how less I'd make IRL, my wife wouldn't appreciate spending the money on games, so I always funded my single player games with money "earned" in multiplayer games, and it worked out for me far now.

 

Now regarding your other answers, I appreciate them and I thank you for them - it seems you all agree that in order to be able to make some "profit" one has to sacrifice his personal enjoyment in game and that would void the role of the all gaming idea, so it would probably be safer for me to stay away of WURM for the time being.

 

Thank you all for your replies!

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You mention in the OP, looking to earn about $1 per day and you have 4 to 6 hours a day to put in to the game.

 

I would say this is VERY doable. A couple of people have mentioned you'll be a clicker slave if you want to earn 50c to $1 an hour, but you mention an effective rate of only 17.5 to 25c an hour. As you gain skills, you'll be able to do things faster. The general labour exchange is 1 silver (approx. 1 euro) for 1k actions. Bricks for instance are two actions - mining the rock and chiselling the bricks. With a brand new account, most of your play time would be used up by this. However, as skills increase and if you buy a very fast chisel (high QL and high woa enchant) you can pump out 500 bricks in very short order leaving you 5 hours or so to actually 'play' the game. Of course as you develop in the game you'll find other things you may enjoy and as your skills increase other options for making a coin or two will come your way.

In short, yes, what you aim for is easy enough, just be aware that at first, if you want to work on making that money from the off, you will be putting a lot of your time in to those tasks to start with.

 

However... You can play for free for as long as you like. During this time you could explore what the game has to offer and find out what you enjoy doing, but also stockpile rock shards, bricks and other bulk goods that are always in demand. When (if) you decide to get premium, you'll be able to sell all of that stuff (though having premium to ride large carts and boats is useful for making deliveries) to fund your initial premium - or perhaps your first deed (as a paid up deed prevent anything from decaying - you don't want your stockpiles to vanish by 5% a month afterall!).

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On 15.7.2016 at 9:42 PM, DLM said:

Now regarding your other answers, I appreciate them and I thank you for them - it seems you all agree that in order to be able to make some "profit" one has to sacrifice his personal enjoyment in game and that would void the role of the all gaming idea, so it would probably be safer for me to stay away of WURM for the time being.

 

 

Subjective perception of "what is fun". For me, I do not agree that in order to make "profit" one has to sacrifice personal enjoyment.

 

For me "profit" is mere byproduct of personal enjoyment. I play the game for entertainment and choose Wurm because I enjoy it. While playing I make profit.

 

But I also had to play quite a while before my playing turned out to be profitable. Roughly I could say that I played as a noob / doodler for 4-6 months and then accumulated skills and knowledge allowed me to produce more than I need and due to enjoying producing good things my personal enjoyment became profitable.

 

There is thought in my mind about "enjoyment being sacrificed to make profit"; If one would, instead of enjoying what they do, choose to do something they are being told to be profitable... then it is not really about sacrifice of enjoyment, its simply a choice to do something what one does not enjoy. It does not really matter what the purpose of doing something is. The core of it is based on the choice to do things one enjoy or do things one does not enjoy. We create artifical correlation by thinking "but I enjoy sitting and doing nothing" (not profitable) and comparing that thought to "I could be making thousands of bricks and sell them, which I do not enjoy" (profitable). In the end, the reasons behind making choices are merely the reasons behind the choice.

 

So the key would be, perhaps, to find "what you enjoy which is profitable". Just like I did. Since we are all individuals and all attributes vary in our situations, it is possible to be someone who enjoys about everything including the most profitable things... or in other end of spectrum being one who enjoys nothing that can be profitable. If "profitability" is the key, then its clearly wrong game and one should seek for type of game where personal requirements can be fulfilled.

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Oh, and in order to also answer to the actual OP.

 

Currently I can charge ppl 50c for 70+ power promise cast on what my Vynora alt priest can do. I can also ask 50c for imp to 90ql or 1s for higher imps. Would I do few 70+ power promise casts a day or imp one item to 90+ I would have met my quota of "$1 a day". Few 70+ power casts vary alot, but I would estimate the time invested in whole process to be far less than how long it roughly takes to imp something to 90+. So, due to playing multiple clients (my priests and my main) simultaneous, I can imp things while casting (casting spam of sac+cast has long timers so playing overhead per priest is relatively small). Also saccable production is outsourced to alt priests so none of that production is cut from my imping time.

 

All that I would call it pretty well oiled system I have built trough the years. It could be better and there are people far more productive than I am. But I enjoy the state I have things set up now that I do not really wish to change anything in order to improve.

 

But then. My current situation is based on alot of very high skills that just keep going higher all the time. For Blacksmithing I've reached the point where there is no more skill to make things better for imping, and I use 100ql tools (hammer being around 99+ql somewhere where I care to imp it to). My priest is also quite high skilled in very many things.

 

On top of just producing things, there is the selling part. Find ppl who need something you can provide to get paid. It also takes time and effort. I do not enjoy this aspect of gameplay; socializing, customer relations, haggling, etc... so I do business with other players who do that part so I can focus 100% to just producing things and work as much or as little as I care. No tied promises no nothing, thats how I enjoy it.

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I don't think it will be a fun relaxing gaming experience trying to make 1s a day.

 

in my experience making bricks, mortar, digging dirt (clicker slave work) never paid the rates people claim it's worth. I always found I had to sell things much less than these so called market price to actually make a sale.

 

Most clicker slave work pays because it's boring. 

 

Don't discredit the difficulty of delivering bulk items created from your clicker slave work. In my experience folks will rarely buy items if you don't deliver, no matter how cheap they are. You may be able to make them on site to skirt this problem.

 

selling quality enchanted items can make that amount but you'll need veteran skill. I'd argue you'll need 90's mining, 90's blacksmithing, or maybe 90's weaponsmithing. A second account either vynora or nahajo priest with 70+ channeling, 70+ farming and high ropemaking(if vynora and you'll want to grind it high imping net traps before going priest). Yada yada... it's a lot of time and work to get to this point.

 

 

 

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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 10:35 AM, DLM said:

So to me is only (or at least mostly) down to the question how realistic it is to expect to make that bit of extra money (~$25 per month) while still skilling up and having some fun, which is something I now can do in either Eve or Entropia.

 

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 2:42 PM, DLM said:

it seems you all agree that in order to be able to make some "profit" one has to sacrifice his personal enjoyment in game and that would void the role of the all gaming idea, so it would probably be safer for me to stay away of WURM for the time being.

 

I think your criteria that needs to be met for you to play Wurm is indeed unrealistic, as well as being a bit odd to set as that determining factor. While you can make this sum and translate it out of the game into RL currency it will take much more time that those with experience in doing this would like to admit. These types of individuals have refined their skills and knowledge over some extended period of time so to them it may seem trivial; however, for a new player just starting to learn the game I think within a few months they will find that all these Wurm financial wizards have not presented it in the light of a newer player experience.

 

In the end your conclusion is best (not too sure about the "safer" reference though), that being don't play Wurm if your stated intent is the main reason for doing so. Most play the game for the *enjoyment* that they get from playing it and any side in-game income is just a bonus that supports their enjoyment of playing. There are exceptions who focus more on the undisclosed cash income that they can make from playing the game but they have highly refined their methods in-game and in exporting the same out of the game. Those who do this to a lesser extent just piddle around now and then making silver in-game, spending it in-game and seem to get some satisfaction from doing that. Not really your objective though since even at this minimal level you want to export these silver coins out of the game at an interval of $20-$30 per month, which adds an additional problematic situation of inexperience into the equation.

 

Farewell

=Ayes=

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Back in the days when I bothered to sell stuff I mainly used a priest alt to enchant things, similar to what Raybarg mentioned. This allowed me to do whatever I enjoyed with my main while earning most of my silver through my priest alt. Skilling the priest up to the point where he became effective enough did take some time/investment, but once I reached that point he made me enough to pay for premium of both accounts (in silver, so 20s a month) and my deed upkeep for about 2 years, after that I started playing Wurm less and didn't bother trading much any more. I also never sold any of the silver for euro.

 

Since I haven't traded in a long time I can't say if the market is still as profitable as it was for me back then, but if you're willing to invest the time then a priest alt is definetly something to consider. I'd say give it a try if you enjoy the game, but I'd be careful with grinding too heavily in just a few skills early on as that could cause you to burn out.

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OP, very easy to do what you ask with plenty of time left over to play however you want.  But you will need a little bit of skills first, nothing major though.  Easy enough to get in a week or so of causal play.

 

I'm familiar with both the other games you mention and I assume you will be using that to initially finance your Wurm experience.  Give it a week (35 hours of play for you) and you will be away.  I no longer actively play both the other games you mention since I vastly prefer Wurm.  Since starting funds are not an issue, your initial cost is 16 Euro only for 2 months premium time.

 

The premium immediately gets you 10s worth of stuff.  The 2 silver and the referral (6s sold) are one time only for first time premium but worth 8s in total. The 2 sleep powders every time you buy premium from store can be sold to players for 1s each.  With that 10s you can set up independently and go it alone or save it and join a village. If you go it alone, put 5s into a deed close to one of the main starting towns (gets you about 2 months deed fees), hire someone for a couple silver to build a basic house/workshop with bed for you (good chance someone will do it for free, I would if you landed beside me) and use the rest to buy a few 70+ coc tools for skilling (as per Raybarg above, 50c per tool).  Give it a week and you will be away no problem.  Send me a PM or catch me in-game sometime for advice on what to skill, etc.

 

Alternatively, join a village that supports new players and you can likely save the entire 10s for whatever.  Good luck!

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20 hours ago, Ayes said:

These types of individuals have refined their skills and knowledge over some extended period of time so to them it may seem trivial; however, for a new player just starting to learn the game I think within a few months they will find that all these Wurm financial wizards have not presented it in the light of a newer player experience.

 

This! :) Long time ago people argued about the time it takes for newbie to start the game and have their first house built up and locked. I ended the argument by testing it. Foundation of that test was based on being able to play only half an hour a day for simulated super-casual gaming. So I dedicated one evening to play 30min intervals of which each interval included the overhead of "logging in and catching up to do things" and "securing everything to log out". Also, I made it obligatory to go to Wurm Wiki website on browser for EVERY item I create and in obligatory manner require myself to read the whole wiki page about it to simulate the time spent as newer player figuring out what to do (this was horrendously tedious, subjectively so as I already knew everything I was reading... perhaps for new players its less tedious with the bit of excitement from learning things.)

 

So yeah, my previous posts in this thread were lining out my reality today, and I was expressing at what insane skills I can achieve that. It took me 5 years of playing Wurm as the primary MMO focus, since I started at early 2011.

 

IF I would wake up tomorrow morning to notice how I drooled on my pillow like every night and realize its 2011, the day when I am going to read trough MMORPG.com and discover Wurm, and would then put myself on a mission to "get back to where I am at 2016" as effectively as possible. Yes, I would be doing everything very differently and there would probably be many things I did not take into account when telling ppl "yes you can make money in Wurm."

 

So, I could assume that as I also posses a human brain, I am subject to biases, such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy

Would I start over, even with all my knowledge, it would still probably take me 3x more time than I estimate to get "profitable". And I agree to admit that my idea about new player to start making money in Wurm is at best really speculative.

 

So I belong to Ayes's idea of "play for enjoynment and byproduce profit". I just calculated that my overall income trough gold sale puts me just a bit under 10 silver a month (all gold sale profit over the ~5 years playing) so I am not really allowed to express the notion of it being "easy to make 1s per day" when I've done only 1/3 of it.

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