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polarbear

A compromise to Epic merge

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I know this could be possible with a bit of coding. I honestly think I have come up with the one solution that will make everyone happy on both sides. 

 

(1) When you are on a boat, you plot course to epic, when arrive on an epic server you are set to your epic skills. Vise versa for plotting course from epic to a freedom server. When going to freedom, your skills go to "freedom style". Basically make the border crossing act like the portal. The epic islands can either stay on a separate cluster or be moved in bottom right hand corner, or where ever on freedom cluster.  When going to epic and say your are driving a sailboat and don't have the ML for it on epic, you will stay in the boat until you disembark and can't re-embark. Or You will receive the message before leaving the epic cluster that you will be kicked from your boat as soon as you cross because you do not have the skill for it, in that cluster. 

or 

(2) keep the epic portal or have both and allow (3)

 

(3) This will also open up the trade of goods from either cluster. Yes the tome market on freedom cluster may drop, but the extra goods should balance it out with things like pvp loot and such. 

 

There is not much to complain about this compromise other than epic will have an increase in player base and lower freedom numbers even more. Also could be a problem with the influx of goods to the current freedom market. Other than those two, I can not think of much which some one could complain about. 

 

So, with that said, what do you guys think. Is this a good compromise to a topic which keeps getting brought up, time and time again. Or is this just a dumb idea to bring unity to both clusters. 

 

Note: map idea of (1)  (yes I used mspaint)

b3c695028f6a36cf9b7460636b62b158.jpg

Edited by polarbear

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Or another compromise could be to do (1), but remove the "effective" skill when an epic account would cross into freedom, and get the curve/ effective back when crossing back into the epic islands. This would also apply to freedomer's who go to the epic islands, would receive an "effective" skill on top of there current skills. 

 

You may ask, but polarbear, what if I have skills on epic and freedom on same toon. When you cross into epic or freedom you will get the opportunity one time to choose which skills you want to use there on out for that toon. The only drawback to this could be if you have really good stats on both and can not decide on which one to use. 

 

Also I failed to mention regarding chaos and epic. when crossing into epic you have your specified epic kingdom, when you go to chaos you have your specified kingdom there, and when you are in freedom, you are of course a freedomer. 

 

I think I have addressed pros/cons of:

  1. The economy
  2. Travel
  3. Skills

If there is anything I missed please comment below. Thanks for your time. 

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The only thing you didnt adress is: what will it accomplish? People on epic dont want to play with people on freedom, it doesnt add anything new to either server, it doesnt fix the problems freedom and mainly chaos has, it doesnt fix the problems wurm pvp has, it doesnt fix the fact that old servers where everyone has 90+ skills are boring. Its a desperate and pointless thing that will do nothing.

Edited by Dagobert
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Let's be completely honest here.  The merging of Freedom and Epic would be a good thing, but people are getting too caught up in the details because they feel it would present them with a minor disadvantage.  Things like tomes and skills (as you have pointed out already) hold people back from agreeing to such a merge.

 

When it was first proposed to merge the two, I didn't like the thought of Epic players keeping their skills that they earned 3x faster, because I've only been playing for a couple years and I have 90's for skills in just a few things.  I felt it gave new players a disadvantage, it would flood the market (even worse than it is now) with drake and scale sets, tomes, glimmer and addy,  etc.  As the population continues to diminish, my personal concerns are getting smaller and smaller, and I am starting to form the opinion that it really wouldn't break the game if Epic characters, their epic skills and their epic items came over to Freedom.

 

But the more I have gotten involved in PvP on Chaos, the more I realize how mundane, buggy and one-sided it is, and I agree with Dagobert, a merge at this time would be utterly pointless until changes are made.

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21 minutes ago, Dagobert said:

People on epic dont want to play with people on freedom

Then they don't have to leave. That's the great thing about it. It gives you a choice. For example, I know of people that live in the middle of Xanadu, or Inde that have never left the server since the beginning of either server. I have heard time and time again the same argument with any game. If a merge was to happen, it doesn't mean you have no choice but to go to freedom. You can stay on Elevation or one of the home servers. 

 

26 minutes ago, Dagobert said:

it doesnt fix the fact that old servers where everyone has 90+ skills are boring.

I could agree from an epic point of view. But if they are connected it could bring people who have 50 or 70 skills from freedom to come join epic kingdoms. That is what I love about chaos. Anyone can come over with their current skills to pvp. Also come to think of it, if you wanted a safe place on a freedom server (safer than a home server, meaning pve) you can set a deed on freedom and not worry about your things being stolen. 

 

This of course is just my opinion. I'm not saying that it will bring anyone back to the game or increase the amount of silver in the game. But it could. If one person from epic put a deed on freedom thats about 5 euros richer Code Club AB gets. More money invested into devs, testing, and such. This is all hypothetical of course, because the merge has never existed. 

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30 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

When it was first proposed to merge the two, I didn't like the thought of Epic players keeping their skills that they earned 3x faster, because I've only been playing for a couple years and I have 90's for skills in just a few things. 

I'm pretty sure that it becomes harder to grind skills past 70 on Epic, compared to Freedom, due to the curve. I'm not entirely sure on this as I've never tried skilling on Freedom.

 

 

Also, moved to Suggestions & Ideas.

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A merge will bring people back... for a month while they sell their items and toons. 

 

Best thing the devs can do is start up a TF2 type server, Meaning no PMK, no skills (or not a huge requirement to skill up), weapons/armour spawned at each starter town. Basically being able to gear up and go PVP without having to worry about "catching up" to everyone else. Also make it a prem only server to discourage alt abuse.

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-1 Not interested in playing with players who think wurm needs to be a deathmatch server

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14 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

-1 Not interested in playing with players who think wurm needs to be a deathmatch server

 

57 minutes ago, polarbear said:

Then they don't have to leave. That's the great thing about it. It gives you a choice.

 

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1 hour ago, TradingAlt said:

-1 Not interested in playing with players who think wurm needs to be a deathmatch server

They would not affect your pve server, most of them would probably move to settle on chaos, and that wouldn't be a big numbers anyway (max 50 or so people at start). Much less after month or two.

Edited by Wilczan

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have fun with your additional 10 players

 

if only this was supported the first 15 times it was suggested

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I don't like the idea of any merging.  I like the idea of unique clusters. 

 

As I keep saying people keep throwing out the short term major changes that MIGHT increase population temporarily, but like the elevation map reset, we were promised many more changes that never happened.  It obviously doesn't work long term without those other changes so why don't we focus on the changes that make people stay and let the population grow without slowly killing off the smaller and smaller remaining population in favor of the people that come back to quit in 2 weeks to 2 months and start campaigning for some other radical idea while they still play WU or other games instead

 

Most of the players I play with now were not around when I started so it's not always just about the quitters quitting again.  We need new/more players and be able to keep them

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Hmm, posability for cheaper tomes..... I'll plus 1 just for that.

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As far as PvP goes, I like the idea of Epic: A cluster of PvP servers consisting of one big battleground server surrounded by relatively-safe "home" satellite servers. Epic is not bad in theory, but to function as intended it would probably require a larger population than all of Wurm Online has in general. It's a shame, really.

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18 hours ago, Firestarter said:

I'm pretty sure that it becomes harder to grind skills past 70 on Epic, compared to Freedom, due to the curve. I'm not entirely sure on this as I've never tried skilling on Freedom.

 

 

Also, moved to Suggestions & Ideas.

And another myth raised by players that is just NOT TRUE. Epic is faster skilling and always will be.

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1 hour ago, whykillme said:

And another myth raised by players that is just NOT TRUE. Epic is faster skilling and always will be.

Yes, at the lower levels. Once you get it higher, I'm almost certain that you get gains based on the effective skill for most of the skills, meaning that gains will get smaller sooner than on Freedom.

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3 hours ago, Firestarter said:

Yes, at the lower levels. Once you get it higher, I'm almost certain that you get gains based on the effective skill for most of the skills, meaning that gains will get smaller sooner than on Freedom.

Not true, even at higher levels epic is faster. There is maybe a few skills that this does not count for, but for 95% or more of the skills it is faster on epic all the way to 100

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Meditation for example is much much faster to get to 70 on freedom. I have seen people go from 50-70 on freedom while i was hardcore struggling with 68-70 in the same timespan. 

 

Also the fact that our body stamina only gains by 1 skill, woodcutting, (dont start about milling lol) is another very hard skill to raise on epic.

 

It might be overall faster but certain skills definately arent faster on epic.

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Sp players skill up on Epic and make 90+QL stuff, then sail to Freedom to sell it, thereby getting around the harder skillgain on Freedom which would take much more time and effort... Anyone who plays exclusively on Freedom and doesn't already have high skills will be at a severe disadvantage in the economy. Personally I'd love to have my supreme toolbelt from Epic on Freedom instead, but in no way do I think it would be a good idea to merge the clusters.

Also - What Whykillme said. Barring one or two exceptions, Epic is always easier to skill than Freedom.

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Aye there's stuff on Epic I'd love to be able to bring over into the Freedom cluster; however, that's exactly why it shouldn't be possible, even with limitations.

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On 7/4/2016 at 10:46 AM, Firestarter said:

I'm pretty sure that it becomes harder to grind skills past 70 on Epic, compared to Freedom, due to the curve. I'm not entirely sure on this as I've never tried skilling on Freedom.

 

 

Also, moved to Suggestions & Ideas.

 

I agree with this. At 70 skill the curve puts you in the 90s effective, so from 70 onward you're stuck gaining skill ticks that you would on freedom in the mid to late 90s with sleep bonus (to simulate epics 2x).  A lot of people on epic just stop grinding around 70 actual skill for this reason, because it's good enough since we have effective 90s anyways.  

 

I'd be fine with this suggestion if it meant converting our skills to freedom by just ignoring the curved value and giving the actual level, because you only actually get a benefit from the epic skill and curve up to level 70.  Allowing epic players with skills above 70 isn't actually unfair because it's exponentially harder after that point, but up to 70 yes it is much easier to train on epic compared to freedom.  Freedom would have an influx of players with around 70 in various skills, who are still far outclassed by freedoms many lvl 90+ crafters, so I don't think it would have too much effect on freedoms economy because 70s crafting isn't too incredibly great when you have much better crafters available on freedom. 

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4 hours ago, Alexgopen said:

At 70 skill the curve puts you in the 90s effective, so from 70 onward you're stuck gaining skill ticks that you would on freedom in the mid to late 90s with sleep bonus (to simulate epics 2x).

All the curve means is you gain skill ticks when you would on Freedom, but the ticks aren't freedom sized, so if you know how to skill effectively (as in getting the most frequent ticks) it's always MUCH faster on Epic because you're still gaining a 70 skill sized tick, but multiplied by 2 (4 if you use SB).

 

I have close to 90 LW on Epic and there's no way my skill tick sizes were the equivalent of skilling over 90 on Freedom. Quite frankly I wouldn't have bothered.

But this brings up another good point. You only need to bother skilling up to 70 on Epic to be able to produce 90Ql goods. So really it's not even fair to compare 90 to 90 skill when calculating it's effect on the Freedom economy. A Freedom exclusive player would need to get up to 90+ skill on Freedom to compete with someone who got to 70 skill on Epic and then boats over to flog their stuff. That's the equivalent of weeks of work vs a day.

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20 minutes ago, Hordern said:

All the curve means is you gain skill ticks when you would on Freedom, but the ticks aren't freedom sized, so if you know how to skill effectively (as in getting the most frequent ticks) it's always MUCH faster on Epic because you're still gaining a 70 skill sized tick, but multiplied by 2 (4 if you use SB).

 

I have close to 90 LW on Epic and there's no way my skill tick sizes were the equivalent of skilling over 90 on Freedom. Quite frankly I wouldn't have bothered.

But this brings up another good point. You only need to bother skilling up to 70 on Epic to be able to produce 90Ql goods. So really it's not even fair to compare 90 to 90 skill when calculating it's effect on the Freedom economy. A Freedom exclusive player would need to get up to 90+ skill on Freedom to compete with someone who got to 70 skill on Epic and then boats over to flog their stuff. That's the equivalent of weeks of work vs a day.

 

I agree going to epic to make stuff would be a problem, but I was talking about skill comparison from epic to Freedom if we had a way to get converted.  I disagree that you get ticks at the rate you would on freedom, else med on epic would train twice as fast as on freedom, when it in fact takes many times more time.  If the servers were merged and traversible in this way, freedomers should also be able to go to epic to have a curve applied to their skills, but this would then upset those that already earned up to 90+ on freedom when they would've only needed 70.  

 

I'd be fine even with just being tossed over into freedom at this point minus the curve because epic is dead, server border crossings don't work (are you still working on this Keenan?), and the new map is horrible/too large/waterworld. It's a player vs player cluster that no longer has players, and rarely receives updates or bug fixes.  

Edited by Alexgopen

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