Fountain pan Replacements

[Fizziepop 163]

7 hours ago, Ecrir said:

 

This, removing deed decay will quite likely help with player retention, both in the short and long term. In the short term players can actually spend most of their time playing the game now instead of having to upkeep all their cosmetics on deed. Punishing people for making their deed look nice is absurd, especially when considering that such great looking deeds inspire other people to do similar stuff. This way plenty of players find new goals for themselves in the game, and that's one of the things which helps keep players around, thus removing deed decay is potentially a great long term advantage for the game. Seems to me like it's definetly worth experimenting with.

 

I don't think it should apply to all items. Item types which fit in a bulk/food-storage bin should continue to decay on deed, as players can already remove decay on those items. Item's which cannot be repaired should probably also continue to decay as MrGARY mentioned. Thus magic chests can still be used for a lot of things, including all those rare items which cannot be stored in the storage bins.

 

This is said so well here I can't do any better. I embolded parts that need to be posted and read again.

 

Each game needs to be a balance, and I don't think any real wurmian is afraid of doing chores. We do them all the time. We have done for years. The more you improve your deed the more chores there are to be done. Eventually, you end up doing so many chores that it impedes and intrudes on your fun factor. Which is where the balance comes in. Everyone needs some fun -- that is why we play games. While more than happy to complete some chores to enable our fun, if at any point our chores outweigh how much fun we can have in the game, then the game stops being fun.

Hence why people burnout on wurm... and why they always seem sad about it. They don't want to leave. Why force them to?

 

Yes, remove deed decay, it's a step in the right direction.

Even if you have to work for it. If you only earn such decay removal 6 months after deed placement, that would be fair too. Enough to give people a taste of decay, but then it stops, so that it doesn't overwhelm the long term players. It would give us all something to work towards, if nothing else, and we all know how addictive that little tidbit can be. A light at the end of the tunnel is always appreciated.

If you've had a deed in place for 6 months you're likely to be there a while, and encourage people to keep their deeds going, even if they have to take a break for IRL stuff, and their playtime gets limited. Limited playtime is not wurm friendly. Cutting down on chores for these people makes a lot of sense, and I think would encourage players back to the game when IRL again allows.

Food for thought.

 

(And as an afternote, no. Skill decay was miserable. Don't wish that on anybody, please.)

[Fairyshine 3,183]

2 hours ago, Fizziepop said:

 

This is said so well here I can't do any better. I embolded parts that need to be posted and read again.

 

Each game needs to be a balance, and I don't think any real wurmian is afraid of doing chores. We do them all the time. We have done for years. The more you improve your deed the more chores there are to be done. Eventually, you end up doing so many chores that it impedes and intrudes on your fun factor. Which is where the balance comes in. Everyone needs some fun -- that is why we play games. While more than happy to complete some chores to enable our fun, if at any point our chores outweigh how much fun we can have in the game, then the game stops being fun.

Hence why people burnout on wurm... and why they always seem sad about it. They don't want to leave. Why force them to?

 

Yes, remove deed decay, it's a step in the right direction.

Even if you have to work for it. If you only earn such decay removal 6 months after deed placement, that would be fair too. Enough to give people a taste of decay, but then it stops, so that it doesn't overwhelm the long term players. It would give us all something to work towards, if nothing else, and we all know how addictive that little tidbit can be. A light at the end of the tunnel is always appreciated.

If you've had a deed in place for 6 months you're likely to be there a while, and encourage people to keep their deeds going, even if they have to take a break for IRL stuff, and their playtime gets limited. Limited playtime is not wurm friendly. Cutting down on chores for these people makes a lot of sense, and I think would encourage players back to the game when IRL again allows.

Food for thought.

 

(And as an afternote, no. Skill decay was miserable. Don't wish that on anybody, please.)

 

I would be reluctant to support the "deeds older than six months" notion, as there has been issues in the past with keep accurate record of times in Wurm.  I would rather say deeds with more than three months' worth of upkeep.  In this manner, people are encouraged to keep deeds paid up for longer, and everyone can get the same advantages regardless of whether they are a brand new person starting out or someone more experienced dropping a deed on another spot in Wurm.  It is also not great since it will artificially push prices up for deeds being sold to others.  Rather, if the deed itself has more than say three months upkeep, the decay is zero.  

 

With regards to people experiencing the taste of decay, that is for noobies who do not make deeds and live in the wild.  I was one of them.  I experienced decay, and I hated it so much I made a deed.

 

I am sure there can be a debate about exactly what should and should not take decay on deeds.  I vote for no decay on deeds at all.  Others will vote for just repairable stuff not decaying on deeds.  The exact specifics can be teased out with an in game poll, I am sure.

[Fizziepop 163]

 

 

I like the idea of more than 3 months upkeep making it work, but as you say, it would encourage people to keep deeds paid up for longer -- but that also means when/if they decide to quit, instead of their deed falling in just a month or two, it could stay up for potentially years. Could you imagine every deed on the server staying up for years after the occupants quit playing?

I wouldn't care much for that. I like that things do eventually decay, and that wurm returns to it's natural state once they are gone.

I'm not even sure this could work if there was a cap on how much upkeep could be payed at once...  there would be abandoned deeds absolutely everywhere.

 

[SmeJack 5,798]

I doubt it would change much there has always been ghost villages that have seemingly no one playing in for years at a time so having a 3 month requirement isn't adding more of these it might just take a few more months for them to disband than it would have previously and I'll still have a neighbor that doesn't play if this change goes in or not. 

[KyleBooze 451]

wait, people are upset that others have fountainpans? I don't have any fountainpans, I used to, but I don't see how they're "game breaking". It's like when spyglasses and farwalkers were somewhat rare to come across, now everybody's got a damn spyglass..

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Removing rare items from the game and making them public to anyone kills the mystery and the fun in the game, especially for older players who wanted to work hard or already have worked hard for them.

 

eg. dragons, spyglasses, fountain containers,... all boring now. I can just speak for myself, but dragons, fountain containers and a few other mysterious parts have been a very great PVE endgame for me and I am sure also for other players. You had to have huge amount of game mechanic knowledge to play this endgame. DEVs created the long awaited endgame years ago without even knowing, now they removed it. mistake!

Edited August 6, 2016 by Sklo:D

[Sin 220]

hello mamadarkness quit can we have our fountain pans back

[Toecutter 331]

On 05/08/2016 at 9:36 PM, SeeD said:

Having your cake and eating it too refers to both actions, the gist is eating the cake, but still having it, enjoy both aspects.

 

Players here want to benefit from demand, yet also want to have no items disappear, meaning no demand.

 

I own two just fyi, and i am perfectly fine with them going, its always the entitled few complaining that they deserve everything because they pay more than others in every game

Why don't you voice your opinions without  directing it at others ? is that too hard to do ?do you get satisfaction for trolling others? you could have easily said and i quote "I own two just fyi, and i am perfectly fine with them going"

 

But you had to add "its always the entitled few complaining that they deserve everything because they pay more than others in every game"

Is it really necessary to have to  be so negative ? I bet i can guess what the capital D is in your name  it's quite fitting

[enoofu 206]

Personally i'm glab fountain pans are gone as no one should play with everything they own in one magic chest

 

Hopefully they will add a bunch more items to zero decay on deeds as 70% of all deeds have inside their home only FSB BSB Crates Lights Forge, Oven, Chest and beds 

Edited August 6, 2016 by enoofu

[Pashka 707]

We need to keep this at the top so they will not forget that we need to get the replacements going.  81 days left.

[Budda 2,670]

I'm aware, don't worry

[Niki 2,278]

Let us keep them as "legacy source rifts" add new source rifts on traders that can be placed inside a magic chest, remove the decay and timer. Everyone is happy your essentially fixing the storage issue that's still a problem while your at it.

 

Another option would be to just outright remove deed decay when over 30 days of upkeep.

[Retrograde 12,013]

40 minutes ago, Niki said:

Let us keep them as "legacy source rifts" add new source rifts on traders that can be placed inside a magic chest, remove the decay and timer. Everyone is happy your essentially fixing the storage issue that's still a problem while your at it.

 

Another option would be to just outright remove deed decay when over 30 days of upkeep.

that doesn't solve anything, just means everyone has access to the broken mechanic.

 

We haven't forgotten, but won't be announcing any plans prematurely

[rixk 830]

17 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

that doesn't solve anything, just means everyone has access to the broken mechanic.

 

We haven't forgotten, but won't be announcing any plans prematurely

That's the thing, there isn't many options for you.. you either go on with the plan as you originally intended (removing source rifts), you replace the functionality (which as you said, gives access to broken mechanic to everyone), or you keep the current rifts in game(in form of rifts or fountain pans).

 

Thing is, as I have already said, the whole idea to even touch the fountain pans was stupid. This was NOT a real problem. It was dragged under the spotlight, while in quiet it would've solved eventually by itself. I remember Mamadarkness post, where was mentioned total fountain pans in game. What is more important, is how many are actively in use. People come and people go, while the pans were being sold, many get stuck in the hands of inactive people (effectively removing them from game). Now, under the spotlight, you may be forced to give the functionality to everyone, which means the number of such items will be out of your control, or .. piss quite a few people off.  Technically trying to fix a "problem" you created even bigger problem, which only has bad solutions.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

51 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

that doesn't solve anything, just means everyone has access to the broken mechanic.

 

We haven't forgotten, but won't be announcing any plans prematurely

 

Then let them stay as they are atm. It was no problem for the last 8 years why is it a problem now?? Rolf promised that fountain containers will stay back in 2008

[KyleBooze 451]

He should've removed them when they were made, it's 8 years too late now.

[Ayes 3,715]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:45 AM, Fizziepop said:

I like the idea of more than 3 months upkeep making it work, but as you say, it would encourage people to keep deeds paid up for longer -- but that also means when/if they decide to quit, instead of their deed falling in just a month or two, it could stay up for potentially years. Could you imagine every deed on the server staying up for years after the occupants quit playing?

 

I pretty much doubt that players pay deed upkeep for a year+ and then quit playing the game. No point in doing this really since they can just disband it and get all the upkeep returned. So I don't think your scenario of "every deed on the server staying up for years" after people stop playing is not at all realistic.

 

I would think that players who pay advanced upkeep and then don't log in for long periods of time either intend to return in the future or something happened to them that prevents them from returning, maybe perhaps forever. Also, I bet some players just pop in for a quick look around and then log off again without anyone noticing, which gives others the impression that they never have.

 

As far as the no decay on deed thing, the requirement of 3 months existence seems ok I guess but adding any more exceptions and requirements to it just goes down the old road of giving players some bonus and then making the additional requirements so onerous that no one will bother with meeting them. This is the history of WO, give players something new and then make them invest so much time into being able to use it that few will bother. In that case if decay takes the lesser toll it is the better option.

 

=Ayes=

[Ostentatio 1,970]

On 8/20/2016 at 7:38 AM, Ayes said:

 

I pretty much doubt that players pay deed upkeep for a year+ and then quit playing the game. No point in doing this really since they can just disband it and get all the upkeep returned. So I don't think your scenario of "every deed on the server staying up for years" after people stop playing is not at all realistic.

 

Happens more than you think. I live in an area with a lot of new players, and you'd be surprised how many show up, put a lot of work/effort/money into the game, then just straight-up disappear for months, if not forever.

[Fairyshine 3,183]

32 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Happens more than you think. I live in an area with a lot of new players, and you'd be surprised how many show up, put a lot of work/effort/money into the game, then just straight-up disappear for months, if not forever.

 

Perhaps, but this poll (link below) shows that most people are around the 2 month to a year ahead in upkeep any way (66 %).  I doubt changing the no upkeep on deed for deeds with more than two months upkeep with change this number by much, and as a result won't have a big impact on how things currently stand any way.  New players will still come, put a lot of work in and leave.  I personally believe more people will come and stay in Wurm if wurmians don't have to constantly keep repairing stuff for most of their online time, on a deed they already pay for.  The stuff which would be great to exclude from decay would be created things like bsb, fsb, crates, carts, wagons, braziers, armor and clothing,  armor stands, weapons, weapons racks, barrels, paints, liquids like maple syrup, mailboxes, statues, flags, banners, kingdom banners, bells, collossus (and at the same time allow the mayor to destroy or move these on deed PLEASE), guard towers, bridges (if not already protected from decay), frying pans, stuff left in forges like lumps, forges, ovens, smelters, open fireplaces, chairs, tables, lights, candelabra, turrets, altars, rafts and backpacks inside carts and ships on deed, ships on deed, .....you get the idea.

 

After deed fell, decay is fast enough, to allow for some pirates to scavenge while still taking care of clearing the land from buildings and "stuff" for new people to deed.

 

Another suggestion:  Email the owner a week before the deed falls.  This may also entice people to come back and play again.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Fairyshine

[Audrel 2,223]

Just some anecdotal stuff for you all. I made a small cart about 2 years ago. I left it in a mine and forgot it existed until the new permissions. It was low QL, under 20. I renamed it to "Tell Audrel if you find me." I had 4 pms over the past couple of months. I finally went and collected it. It had very little damage sitting in a mine off deed for years. The same day, I went to ride a spare cart I used for moving stuff around. It was in too poor of shape to be used. It is 2 months old and had 60 damage on deed.

 

Why in hell is a 2 year old low QL cart in an off deed mine still in existence while a 2 month old cart on deed cannot be rode because of damage?

 

[SmeJack 5,798]

Same reason other random things hang around, people repair as they pass for skill and the odd person will imp too.

[Pashka 707]

[07:52:04] A black hole with shimmering edges. It is unstable and will disappear in about 53 days, 19 hours and 7 minutes. Ql: 14.643, Dam: 0.0.

 

 

Just a reminder that we don't have long to get the replacement into the game so everyone will have time to get things situated before they go kaboom.

 

Thanks!

[Gaeron 551]

Apart from the sheer convenience the rifts offered, ie utility they also had that legacy label which meant rarity/collectable.

 

I think its a given that we have to lose the utility, if everyone is honest it is way beyond what we should expect from a container.

 

Instead of the rifts dissolving/fading/whatever what happened if they unloaded their contents and became a vanity item, no function so to speak but just a presence in game that can't be duplicated. I don't know, perhaps a new statue, a bust of Rolf's head on a plinth or something. That way the players who want legacy/collectables get to keep something but the thing the devs complained about, the container capacity is gone.

[Milosanx 716]

Issues like this is a big part of where codeclub is going wrong. Bugged or not, removing things from the game that people have without compensation just makes people bitter. Anywhere bugs, bad mechanics, or even gameplay loopholes, they player should be protected. Unless.......

You just want players to leave the game and go play games that protect them better. Which is happening and I'm very surprised you guys don't see this, or you just dont care, which is weird on a business level.

Imo, any bug should compensate the player as they are not and do not have control of bugs.

 

 

[Cerberus 247]

I would like clear answers on what is planned as a replacement option. If anything. The lack of communication and professionalism is terrifying. CodeClub even have a clearly stated direction Rolf intends to take the game or is it still and always going to be random with no planning and communicating between the company and players? Budda, sorry but you're I'm aware, don't worry does not help us with not worrying when nothing at all has been stated as to what is clearly going to be done in 50 days. You want us to not worry, please communicate how this will be handled so we don't worry.