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Fountain pan Replacements

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11 hours ago, Kadore said:

So this is being removed to prevent hoarding?

Decay on items should've been the same as house decay on non logged in characters from the get go, my Truck sitting in the driveway does not take damage or tire wear if it's not being driven.

Actually, depending on how long it sits, and the area you are in, sitting in the driveway for a long period of time without any shelter or cover will cause the truck to slowly deteriorate. While the tires may not become worn from not being driven, they'll eventually go flat. Not really a good comparison, to be honest.

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2 hours ago, Klaa said:

Indeed... apparently rolling and folding are lost ancient technologies in Wurm.

 

Nah, pelts are made from the same explodium that used to make anchors explode when you tied a rope to them. Folding them can clearly take them over the critical mass and *boom*.

 

Some rumors say that wurmaggedon was caused by extensive pelt folding.

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1 hour ago, Budda said:

 

Allowing a broken, bugged mechanic to be the official solution to other bugged items (a solution that a very small percentage of players actually have access to) isn't acceptable, imo.

 

Replacing that bugged mechanic (that allows a method storing of near unlimited numbers of items with no decay whatsoever) with something else that all players can access (that fills the need these items currently fill, not including the obvious broken parts), as well as fixing those bugged items (e.g. pelts not fitting in anything realistic) is the best option we have. In the very near future I'll be working on a larger mechanic change that will help with the loss of fountain pans - but I'm not ready to give the details for those yet. You'll just have to trust that I know this is a big deal for some people, and I'll be aiming to soften the blow of losing fountain pans as much as I can while leaving the broken mechanic of it gone.

 

Budda, I know that you said you were working on it and that you couldn't say what it was yet.  I just try to keep reminding you that the pans do have a timeline.  That timeline says they will disappear at that point.  In order to plan for their demise it would be nice to know how you are going to soften the blow.  Will there be another item implemented?  Will there be larger volume on something?  Will you be asking people to purchase large magic chests?  Will you be lowering decay on deed with 30 days upkeep?

 

I know you say you aren't ready yet but we do not have an abundance of time to make plans left now.

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We are aware of the timeline, and will have all changes announced and in game before the removal of the pans.

 

If it mean extending the lifetime of the pans by a few days to ensure overlap we will do that, but no information will be given until we're able to make it happen.

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Just some advise Retro. Don't give people another reason to leave this game. You're losing enough people as it is, but you'll lose more over this I can guarantee you. The ones who own these items generally speaking are your more invested players in this game and your long timers. Lose them and Wurm will be in big trouble.

 

Think the above over and I would suggest you tread carefully with the upcoming update for this issue.

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3 minutes ago, Redd said:

Just some advise Retro. Don't give people another reason to leave this game. You're losing enough people as it is, but you'll lose more over this I can guarantee you. The ones who own these items generally speaking are your more invested players in this game and your long timers. Lose them and Wurm will be in big trouble.

 

Think the above over and I would suggest you tread carefully with the upcoming update for this issue.

With all the introductions from the changes the removal of this item has brought in, I'd dare say we've gained far more people than we'll lose if a dozen people cant store infinite amounts of items decay free

Edited by SeeD
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28 minutes ago, SeeD said:

With all the introductions from the changes the removal of this item has brought in, I'd dare say we've gained far more people than we'll lose if a dozen people cant store infinite amounts of items decay free

 

...what? 

 

Dank pans are dank and hundreds of people have them. They allow people who work full time or have kids etc to not spend their precious game time doing menial ###### like repairing every item you own

Edited by Toolhead
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43 minutes ago, SeeD said:

With all the introductions from the changes the removal of this item has brought in, I'd dare say we've gained far more people than we'll lose if a dozen people cant store infinite amounts of items decay free

Nope. I haven't seen anyone leaving the game because of fountain pans, I doubt I will ever see peoeple join Wurm, because "fountain pans are gone". Let's face it, this change doesn't affect anyone who doesn't own the pans even slightest. Doesn't make their quality of life better, doesn't make it worse either of course.


The liquid sealing functionality is great, but hey.. now everyone gets possibility to keep literally unlimited amount of liquids, which doesn't decay, as long as you can stand sealing the containers. If we get same functionality for items(not really announced, but from what I understood, it is hinted, hopefully I am just wrong).. So basically capacity of fountain pans is considered EXTREMELY unbalanced, but giving unlimited capacity for every player isn't.

Edited by rixk
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1 minute ago, rixk said:

Nope. I haven't seen anyone leaving the game because of fountain pans, I doubt I will ever see peoeple join Wurm, because "fountain pans are gone". Let's face it, this change doesn't affect anyone who doesn't own the pans even slightest. Doesn't make their quality of life better, doesn't make it worse either of course.


The liquid sealing functionality is great, but hey.. now everyone gets possibility to keep literally unlimited amount of liquids, which doesn't decay, as long as you can stand sealing the containers. If we get same functionality for items(not really announced, but from what I understood, it is hinted, hopefully I am just wrong).. So basically capacity of fountain pans is considered EXTREMELY unbalanced, but giving unlimited capacity for every player isn't.

You are correct in being wrong, the ability to freeze decay on items is not in any plans..

 

Storage of liquids as a bulk item and decay free has been long requested, and ultimately, it's mainly dyes, sap, syrups and juices, ultimately which means creating wine is a little easier, but no flooding of the market or making hugely gamebreaking changes.

 

I'd say the removal of 5% volume loss affected the market more than any liquid sealing will.

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Someone screenshot the heck out of the last 2 pages of this thread for when dozens of people bite, buy magic chests, some amphora maker with "the right connections" complains then communism kicks in and THOSE get nerfed =)

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9 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

You are correct in being wrong, the ability to freeze decay on items is not in any plans..

 

Storage of liquids as a bulk item and decay free has been long requested, and ultimately, it's mainly dyes, sap, syrups and juices, ultimately which means creating wine is a little easier, but no flooding of the market or making hugely gamebreaking changes.

 

I'd say the removal of 5% volume loss affected the market more than any liquid sealing will.

With that I agree, mainly because liquid goods market is unexistant :) Dyes are bit better, but there are so many chances to combine RGB colors, so any dyemaker will probably keep their dyes in ingredient form even after the change. But don't get me wrong, I think the liquid sealing is great compromise.

 

Good that I am wrong, will wait for next announcements. :)

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As a new player who never had a chance to obtain one of these so called "fountain pans"; Good riddance. Seems like a silly thing to be complaining about, seeing as from what I can tell it was simply an exploit. Last thing we need is unfair items like that separating newer players from the "veteran" players.

Edited by Budzilla403
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4 hours ago, Budzilla403 said:

As a new player who never had a chance to obtain one of these so called "fountain pans"; Good riddance. Seems like a silly thing to be complaining about, seeing as from what I can tell it was simply an exploit. Last thing we need is unfair items like that separating newer players from the "veteran" players.

Just like any other game that separates their veteran players from the newbies by taking away something the vets have had for years...

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27 minutes ago, KyleBooze said:

Just like any other game that separates their veteran players from the newbies by taking away something the vets have had for years...

A bugged item that was never intended to work in that way? I see no reason why it shouldn't be removed. Now if they add a replacement that would be great, as it would allow newer players the same opportunity to obtain said item; But in the end that is all up to Rolf/The devs.

Edited by Budzilla403

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They already gave us the replacement for these. It's called Wurm Unlimited ;)

 

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I reckon some folks have been playing this game so long they've replaced logic with wogic:

 

QoL change to priests to prevent them having to log on alts to do something?  -1, breaks game balance, no need for the QoL

Infinite decayless storage removal that means folks would have to alt-vault?  -1, would be detrimental to QoL

 

WCWogic at its best

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1 hour ago, Etherdrifter said:

I reckon some folks have been playing this game so long they've replaced logic with wogic:

 

QoL change to priests to prevent them having to log on alts to do something?  -1, breaks game balance, no need for the QoL

Infinite decayless storage removal that means folks would have to alt-vault?  -1, would be detrimental to QoL

 

WCWogic at its best

 

Years ago priests had no restrictions, I wonder what the whole history is as to why that was changed, or how? However in this case, the items introduced to make decay less will hopefully benefit every Wurmian and make QoL better.

SPD-A01.gif

Edited by Fairyshine
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10 hours ago, Budzilla403 said:

As a new player who never had a chance to obtain one of these so called "fountain pans"; Good riddance. Seems like a silly thing to be complaining about, seeing as from what I can tell it was simply an exploit. Last thing we need is unfair items like that separating newer players from the "veteran" players.

 

First i don't think your a new player but a new account. regardless i will give you my 2 cents. I will take with 100% certainty that you did not read much of this thread or any of the other threads or any of the other threads 5 years ago. Quick back story, around 2011 time Rolf came out and answered the question about fountain pans. He viewed them as legacy items that gave life to Wurm's history/growing pains. Since the items could not be made anymore and people would slowly go away that had them, there was no harm in keeping them. Given this statement many people felt more comfortable buying them. Rolf himself said it was not an exploit so those on the fence found no reason why not to own one. Fountain pans are not as rare as you think. Only reason why they were rare was because a few  cornered the market and made huge profits off of it. The only people being hurt by this are those that bought fountain pans.

 

Word of advice if you truly are a new player, don't open your mouth unless you are involved and know what your talking about. That's out of experience so don't take that too harshly, we all make mistakes.

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4 minutes ago, JudusX said:

 

First i don't think your a new player but a new account. regardless i will give you my 2 cents. I will take with 100% certainty that you did not read much of this thread or any of the other threads or any of the other threads 5 years ago. Quick back story, around 2011 time Rolf came out and answered the question about fountain pans. He viewed them as legacy items that gave life to Wurm's history/growing pains. Since the items could not be made anymore and people would slowly go away that had them, there was no harm in keeping them. Given this statement many people felt more comfortable buying them. Rolf himself said it was not an exploit so those on the fence found no reason why not to own one. Fountain pans are not as rare as you think. Only reason why they were rare was because a few  cornered the market and made huge profits off of it. The only people being hurt by this are those that bought fountain pans.

 

Word of advice if you truly are a new player, don't open your mouth unless you are involved and know what your talking about. That's out of experience so don't take that too harshly, we all make mistakes.

 

So because I'm new I can't give my input  into how I see the whole situation? That was 5 years, hate to break it to you but things change; all the time. I can understand why people would be upset, but in my opinion something like that does nothing but hurt the economy, and certainly does nothing to "give life to wurms growing pains", unless keeping bugs around is your idea of that.

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1) How does a storage container hurt the economy?

2) If you are new - which you truly seem to be, then you have no idea what this game has gone thru.

3) It is no longer a bug it has been fixed and the remaining items have been ok'd by Rolf to stay in game many years ago.

 

If it is determined to be so game breaking that they need to be removed why not give everyone a bank that actually works for storage of items that they do not want to decay, one that can hold back packs full of stuff, or maybe 100 items.

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12 minutes ago, Budzilla403 said:

 

So because I'm new I can't give my input  into how I see the whole situation? That was 5 years, hate to break it to you but things change; all the time. I can understand why people would be upset, but in my opinion something like that does nothing but hurt the economy, and certainly does nothing to "give life to wurms growing pains", unless keeping bugs around is your idea of that.

 

Not because your new, just not familiar with the history. The argument of i don't have one is not a valid argument. I don't have a scale set but i want one, does that mean everyone else that has one should get it taken away? Or should there be an easy to get alternative made so i can have one? Having something unique is fun in games, it gives you a goal to achieve. If everyone has the same thing then how fun would that be? 

 

The biggest issue is that most people paid for these LEGIT items and are now watching the money they invested into it slowly tick away with each passing day. My only alternative after this will be to make 6 or more alts and premium them once to act as mules. If that's what we call as intended then that's horrible game mechanics. should have spent the money then making mule accounts rather than on an item i could hold on one account.

 

Nobody gets to tell me how i should enjoy my game play just because they don't see it like i do. I already have magic chests and more merchants than i care to admit. Why should anyone else care about my items when playing on a PVE server. Nobody else is negatively effected by the momentos and junk I've collected over my playtime.

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It's clear this thread has run its course.

 

Many changes have come in as a result of the removal of fountain pans and several more are on their way.

The features directly tied to the removal of fountain pans are:

 

The introduction of smelters

The introduction of amphorae, and the ability to lift large liquid containers

Removal of 5% volume loss on bulk storage on deeds with over 30 days upkeep

and the upcoming ability to store liquids without decay.

 

There are some plans for future additions too, and we are aware of the limited timespan left. If necessary, we will extend it slightly in order to overlap any additions that come in to give players time to make arrangements.

 

Of course I'll include those introductions in the weekly news when the time comes to announce them.

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