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Pashka

Fountain pan Replacements

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On 9/26/2016 at 10:53 AM, Ostentatio said:

 

Out of curiosity... where? Do you have a specific quote?

 

5 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

There's no place this would have been said that isn't recorded. Forums, IRC, in-game chat, an email, it would all be somewhere.

 

Unsubstantiated, paraphrased quotes are no better than hearsay, because that's exactly what they are. There are enough times when someone gives an actual verbatim quote and still tries to use it to say the complete opposite of what the quote actually said, so why should anyone trust vague secondhand information about promises that may or may not have been made?

Quite a few remember it being said, unfortunately no one can produce the quote, I'm sure it has zero to do with the old forums crashing and everyone experiencing a mass UFO sighting.

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36 minutes ago, Fairyshine said:

 

Quote or no quote, the fact that it was allowed in game and allowed to be traded on forums hosted by the game owner and developers, implies the item became part of the game lore. 

 

"Lore"?  Really?

 

Quote

Liquid storage is only one part of the value. 

 

No, it's the only leg you have left to stand on.

 

Quote

no containers which keep ores sorted yet not decaying which can be heated inside a burning forge

 

Ores can be put in BSB's.  If you are referring to lumps, specifically enchanted ones... you can combine them with other lumps to remove the damage.  Your lump will last for months unless it is 1 QL or something.

 

Quote

, places to store eggs

 

Was addressed in the update....

 

Quote

 

and flowers which will have them not decay,

 

They're called bulk storage bins (BSB's).  Use them.

 

Quote

 

storage spaces for rare or enchanted tools / weapons / armor where they won't decay, places to store enchanted teeth / ores / strings / clay / creation mats...

 

Tools are supposed to take damage, otherwise there would be no point in making them improvable.  If you have more tools than you need to carry in your inventory (i.e. 152  90 ql pickaxes that you hope to someday sell) then you can let them decay like everyone else does. 

 

 

Quote

 

It does not matter that the "bigger on the inside than the outside" functionality was not intended

 

Uh, yeah, that does matter because that's the only thing you care about... be honest.

 

Quote

there are no items to replace the different functionalities the pans are used for. 

 

Yes, there are.  Amphoras, merchant contracts, soon we'll be able to preserve barrels of liquid to slow decay, but you'd know that if you read the news...

 

Quote

 

The issue is there are NO OTHER OPTIONS IN GAME to store these said items without constant freaking decay.

 

The issue is not that there are no options to store items.  YOUR issue sounds more like you have too many things you want to store.  You should not be able to protect 5 million tools from decay, sorry.

 

Quote

 

I mean, I would love to put armor in an armor stand...but I don't because it takes decay. 

Why have armor stands if it does not stop decay on the stored items?  Nobody uses them for valuable armor.  Same with weapon stands. 

 

Your armor and weapon/shield would take the same damage if you fought a troll or two that wandered on to your deed.  If you wear your armor and never go hunting, *gasp* it never takes damage!  As for the 50 plate sets you imped... well, again, you have too much stuff, and that's not the dev's problem.

 

Quote

Same with using forges or chests or coffins for tools.  Everywhere you put stuff, it decays.  You pay for a deed to keep your in game stuff safe, yet nothing protects it from constant decay.  That is the reason the price of these items were so high, and why people were prepared to pay the price. 

 

Many small tools that can't be improved such as compasses and whetstones will fit inside a satchel.  Satchels fit inside small magic chests.  Larger items like large mauls or pickaxes?  Sure, you get to improve them again, unless you put them on a merchant.    But again, your issue is not being able to store stupidly unintended large amounts of items, which is going away.  No book you can write will justify your personal need for hoarding.

 

Quote

 

There is a clear correlation between people wanting more storage options for created and valuable items which would TAKE AWAY DECAY.

 

You don't need to be able to store every tool, weapon, piece of armor and snow lantern you own in a non-decay container.  You *had* a valid argument for things like liquids, and egg storage, but read the news.

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2 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

"Lore"?  Really?

 

 

No, it's the only leg you have left to stand on.

 

 

Ores can be put in BSB's.  If you are referring to lumps, specifically enchanted ones... you can combine them with other lumps to remove the damage.  Your lump will last for months unless it is 1 QL or something.

 

 

Was addressed in the update....

 

 

They're called bulk storage bins (BSB's).  Use them.

 

 

Tools are supposed to take damage, otherwise there would be no point in making them improvable.  If you have more tools than you need to carry in your inventory (i.e. 152  90 ql pickaxes that you hope to someday sell) then you can let them decay like everyone else does. 

 

 

 

Uh, yeah, that does matter because that's the only thing you care about... be honest.

 

 

Yes, there are.  Amphoras, merchant contracts, soon we'll be able to preserve barrels of liquid to slow decay, but you'd know that if you read the news...

 

 

The issue is not that there are no options to store items.  YOUR issue sounds more like you have too many things you want to store.  You should not be able to protect 5 million tools from decay, sorry.

 

 

Your armor and weapon/shield would take the same damage if you fought a troll or two that wandered on to your deed.  If you wear your armor and never go hunting, *gasp* it never takes damage!  As for the 50 plate sets you imped... well, again, you have too much stuff, and that's not the dev's problem.

 

 

Many small tools that can't be improved such as compasses and whetstones will fit inside a satchel.  Satchels fit inside small magic chests.  Larger items like large mauls or pickaxes?  Sure, you get to improve them again, unless you put them on a merchant.    But again, your issue is not being able to store stupidly unintended large amounts of items, which is going away.  No book you can write will justify your personal need for hoarding.

 

 

You don't need to be able to store every tool, weapon, piece of armor and snow lantern you own in a non-decay container.  You *had* a valid argument for things like liquids, and egg storage, but read the news.

So this is being removed to prevent hoarding?

Decay on items should've been the same as house decay on non logged in characters from the get go, my Truck sitting in the driveway does not take damage or tire wear if it's not being driven.

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40 minutes ago, Audrel said:

LOL This is censorship online. How many thousands of things have been removed along with all references? Seriously. Just because you can't find it doesn't mean anything.

 

Are you seriously saying that developer quotes were scrubbed from the forums as part of some kind of cover-up? This is getting ridiculous.

 

All I'm saying is that I'm not going to take it at face value when someone on the forums says that Rolf said such-and-such thing and that he meant such-and-such specifically by saying it... especially when it's something I've never heard of before, like that exact 100% perfect replacements for fountain pans would be issued, or whatever point was trying to be made there.

Edited by Ostentatio

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Just now, Ostentatio said:

 

Are you seriously saying that developer quotes were scrubbed from the forums as part of some kind of cover-up? This is getting ridiculous.

 

All I'm saying is that I'm not going to take it at face value when someone on the forums says that Rolf said such-and-such thing and that he meant such-and-such specifically by saying it.

I'm saying the old Forums were damaged and not all were restored, was about the same time the game Was DDOSED, it's been a long while.

 

A lot of this happened before you started playing I'm guessing, check the Wiki.

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2 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

Are you seriously saying that developer quotes were scrubbed from the forums as part of some kind of cover-up? This is getting ridiculous.

 

All I'm saying is that I'm not going to take it at face value when someone on the forums says that Rolf said such-and-such thing and that he meant such-and-such specifically by saying it.

 

I am saying in the 7 or so years since it would have been said, people have changed computers, the hosting has changed, the forum software has changed, the world of electronics in its entirety has changed. Just because no one can find the original post means nothing.

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11 minutes ago, Kadore said:

So this is being removed to prevent hoarding?

Decay on items should've been the same as house decay on non logged in characters from the get go, my Truck sitting in the driveway does not take damage or tire wear if it's not being driven.

 

Actually, the worst thing you can do to your car is not drive it for several years.  That has nothing to do with the fact that some people (not me) love to have huge castles and buildings all over their deed.  Even then, when you think about the mechanics of repairing brick walls, such as having to waste a brick on every single damaged wall on your castle, it really is a waste.

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Just now, Audrel said:

 

I am saying in the 7 or so years since it would have been said, people have changed computers, the hosting has changed, the forum software has changed, the world of electronics in its entirety has changed. Just because no one can find the original post means nothing.

 

The world of electronics in its entirety has changed? Are you serious? Do you realize what you're saying? Do you have any actual concept of history?

 

If it was on IRC, logs would exist on multiple computers, period. I have IRC logs stretching back far longer than that, and there are numerous people in the channel who essentially never leave.

If it were on the forums, even the old forums had been searched by staff for any mention of that.

 

The forums going down and some stuff not being recovered is... barely plausible, but at this point, there's no way to prove that one way or another.

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Devs deny knowledge...

Conspiracy and coverup...

 

Some of you guys are making this out to be some far-fetched episode of the X-Files or something.

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You guys can take this to PM's please.   Some people just like to argue I do understand this.  I don't think the rest of us care though.

 

Just an FYI.  Refer back to the original post on removing the pans to find out about the forums going kaboom.  If anyone had the records that are missing from IRC or from the forums from that period they aren't saying anything.  Not just about this subject but about having ANY records from that time period.  But it is mentioned and confirmed in there that we did have an issue.

Edited by Pashka
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People and communities have a habit of rumors spiraling out of control based on misinterpretation and misinformation. We've seen this enough times in the Wurm community to know that firsthand. Hell, one person makes an offhand, unfounded comment in a recent post and all of a sudden I've seen like a half-dozen people acting like an Epic merge is in the cards, based on absolutely nothing.

 

My guess isn't that everyone is straight-up lying. I think it's more likely that something was said a long time ago that has gotten misinterpreted or blown out of proportion, spread as a rumor, and has been distilled into something really hypersimplistic to the point of being wrong, namely "Rolf said that fountain pans were never going away". It's happened with other things, and it's a much more likely explanation than "the devs are engaging in a massive conspiracy" or "everyone is lying".

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Just now, Ostentatio said:

 

The world of electronics in its entirety has changed? Are you serious? Do you realize what you're saying? Do you have any actual concept of history?

 

If it was on IRC, logs would exist on multiple computers, period. I have IRC logs stretching back far longer than that, and there are numerous people in the channel who essentially never leave.

If it were on the forums, even the old forums had been searched by staff for any mention of that.

 

The forums going down and some stuff not being recovered is... barely plausible, but at this point, there's no way to prove that one way or another.

 

I think my concept of history is pretty good. Unless you have not bought a computer or cell phone or television in the past 10 years, it's rather obvious. Unless you have not changed operating systems in the past 10 years, it's pretty obvious.

 

Cudos on preserving decades of log files for prosperity.

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Using slightly different versions of software does not mean "the world of electronics in its entirety has changed". Technically speaking, not much has changed at all, even if we use things somewhat differently. Very, very little has fundamentally changed over that period of time.

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Lol unless said truck is here, my home town.

Been clearing old cancerous rigs. Dat salty air does wonders.

 

Anyways; Wargasm.

We have beef. General beef that'll slough off within the hour... but it isn't bacon. So it isn't good.

30 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

"Lore"?  Really?

No, it's the only leg you have left to stand on.

 If you have more tools than you need to carry in your inventory (i.e. 152  90 ql pickaxes that you hope to someday sell) then you can let them decay like everyone else does.

 

"The issue is not that there are no options to store items.  YOUR issue sounds more like you have too many things you want to store.  You should not be able to protect 5 million tools from decay..."

"As for the 50 plate sets you imped... well, again, you have too much stuff..."

"No book you can write will justify your personal need for hoarding."

 

 

You don't need to be able to store every tool, weapon, piece of armor and snow lantern you own in a non-decay container.  You *had* a valid argument for things like liquids, and egg storage, but read the news.

 

Really, what the heck.

Where do you get off telling someone else what to do with anything they earned/bought/made etc?

What Your problem is, is exactly that.

 

Every time I walked away from Wurm, barring once ( and even then... )

Was decay related. I'm not able to sit home and monitor my decay.

Repairing isn't fun. I've spent nearly 10hours doing almost nothing but repair (sunday night/ monday morning.) It wasnt fun. I don't even have a lot of stuff. Not one moment of the repair timer bar is entertaining. After a 12+ hour day of work, whatever it may be, it's motivation enough to play something else. To sit on the floor and stare at the ceiling, is about the same entertainment value.

People pay for entertainment and convenience. The cta you get from WO inventory management is neither entertaining nor convenient.

Everyone asking for compensation is justified. ( I'll be excluded. My fountains decayed like everything else. Still paid for them. ###### useful ###### they are.)

 

The haters in the wings shouting their cries of "more than your share!" Need to find a new hobby. To clarify:

None of you have, had, or ever will have:

The right to dictate how many posessions someone can have,

The right to dictate what anyone is allowed to do with their stuff, unless it involves YOUR property, in which case we have systems and procedures in place for a reason.

A leg to stand on (when) your arguement is that someone is somehow less than you for any reason pertaining to their posessions/status derived.(wealth/poor)

 

 

P.s: Wargasm, I've generated a fair bit of respect for you as a person in the years gaming in this community together. Don't take it personal, but do ask yourself what your motivation truley is.

 

 

Pps: typing on a cell phone is abnormal. Pardon my typing lately

Edited by Makarus
adding context 10hrs
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5 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

Devs deny knowledge...

Conspiracy and coverup...

 

Some of you guys are making this out to be some far-fetched episode of the X-Files or something.

 

3 minutes ago, Pashka said:

You guys can take this to PM's please.   Some people just like to argue I do understand this.  I don't think the rest of us care though.

 

It's done. It's over. They are going away. Some people deny plausibility. Other people get their pompoms out and cheer for Team CC. Others get their tinfoil hats out. Even discussing it at all is far-fetched.

For months I've been reading, "Show me the post." It's gone. Lost, deleted, fell off the end into the cyberabsyss. It's not there but people remember it. The fact that the post can't be found doesn't mean it wasn't said. The fact no one has logs from IRC means nothing.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 

The world of electronics in its entirety has changed? Are you serious? Do you realize what you're saying? Do you have any actual concept of history?

 

If it was on IRC, logs would exist on multiple computers, period. I have IRC logs stretching back far longer than that, and there are numerous people in the channel who essentially never leave.

If it were on the forums, even the old forums had been searched by staff for any mention of that.

 

The forums going down and some stuff not being recovered is... barely plausible, but at this point, there's no way to prove that one way or another.

There is no reason to continue trying to communicate with you, enough know the truth without a further need on my part to convince you, like in game your a pompous ass in chat as well as on the forums.

 

People aren't making things up, they just can't produce what you need to see to be satisfied, in the end both the item and the thread / IRC chat happened before your time.

 

If only you were around then to preserve it for us, please return to the Wiki and data-mining Wurm to your few fans who give a ######.

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Lets not get too personal...

 

Mods might close the playground.

 

When I first started wurm, I was playing on a laptop that ceased to exist after a flood.

Months of logs. Poof. Not just WO.

 

I've since gone through 5 desktops and one laptop.

I probably have the quote. Somewhere in the city dump.

 

 

Keep datamining. Love having actual mechanical info to gameplay results.

Edited by Makarus
Excellsior!
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54 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

 

"Lore"?  Really?

 

 

No, it's the only leg you have left to stand on.

 

 

Ores can be put in BSB's.  If you are referring to lumps, specifically enchanted ones... you can combine them with other lumps to remove the damage.  Your lump will last for months unless it is 1 QL or something.

 

 

Was addressed in the update....

 

 

They're called bulk storage bins (BSB's).  Use them.

 

 

Tools are supposed to take damage, otherwise there would be no point in making them improvable.  If you have more tools than you need to carry in your inventory (i.e. 152  90 ql pickaxes that you hope to someday sell) then you can let them decay like everyone else does. 

 

 

 

Uh, yeah, that does matter because that's the only thing you care about... be honest.

 

 

Yes, there are.  Amphoras, merchant contracts, soon we'll be able to preserve barrels of liquid to slow decay, but you'd know that if you read the news...

 

 

The issue is not that there are no options to store items.  YOUR issue sounds more like you have too many things you want to store.  You should not be able to protect 5 million tools from decay, sorry.

 

 

Your armor and weapon/shield would take the same damage if you fought a troll or two that wandered on to your deed.  If you wear your armor and never go hunting, *gasp* it never takes damage!  As for the 50 plate sets you imped... well, again, you have too much stuff, and that's not the dev's problem.

 

 

Many small tools that can't be improved such as compasses and whetstones will fit inside a satchel.  Satchels fit inside small magic chests.  Larger items like large mauls or pickaxes?  Sure, you get to improve them again, unless you put them on a merchant.    But again, your issue is not being able to store stupidly unintended large amounts of items, which is going away.  No book you can write will justify your personal need for hoarding.

 

 

You don't need to be able to store every tool, weapon, piece of armor and snow lantern you own in a non-decay container.  You *had* a valid argument for things like liquids, and egg storage, but read the news.

 

Hi Wargasm, thanks for responding.  In your own words:  "Look, people can point fingers all they want.  Player A said this, Player B did that.  It all boils down to greed on both "sides", which sad to say, happens..."  Like you are saying, both sides of every case can always be accused of being "greedy" or "deprived" by the other side.  Everything has two sides, and here Pashka asked for feedback from the devs about items which would replace the fountain pans.  People are voicing opinions about what they use the pans for, and why they find them valuable.  This may have been of value to the devs as long as people don't come down on them like a ton of bricks and stand in judgement of people they don't know at all, and make them out to feel like a fool.  I guess your personal attacks have an advantage as the thread might get closed because of it, but hey, it would be great if there could be some feedback on what other items are planned (or not planned) in relation to tools, weapons, armor, enchanted mats...just decay in general.

 

You don't know me at all, so I guess you would not be aware that I actually like changing armor for looks and making heaps of different items to make my deed pretty.  Notice, my deed only has to be pretty for me, I don't care what you think of it.  I like castles.  I like spending time creating and placing things in interesting ways that I find pleasing. My deed is my little piece of this sandbox, and as such, I can do whatever I want there.  That is one of the main reasons I play PvE. We peacefully co exist in a happy alliance and we don't see the need to judge how others play their game.

 

If I want to store different tools with different enchants and use them for different purposes, that is my business.  If I want to interchange weapons while still storing the other unused ones in ways that will see them take no decay while not used, that is my business.  If I have an issue with not having adequate storage for enchanted mats or not wanting to store 99 ql ores with 98 ql ores and find it cumbersome to have to make and plant several BSB's (bulk storage bins) just for this purpose, that is my prerogative.  I am allowed to ask whether these things can be addressed. 

 

I understand and respect you don't like or condone hoarding, on the other hand you should show others the same courtesy if they request specific means to limit the ridiculous decay that keep people with limited play time away from having fun.  I read that you get bored with just one main char, so you play with your main and several priests to keep from getting too bored in the game.  Great for you, I don't know where you find the time, but great for you!

 

My situation is completely different.  Lots of days I don't even have a few hours to play Wurm.  If the issue of constant decay is not addressed after fountain pans are removed, minimalist people like you may have lots more space to not hoard stuff and not build castles and not waste bricks repairing walls, as a lot of "hoarders" like me, may just find it all too hard and too much work to keep "playing" (read "working").  What is happening in this thread is that people are voicing concerns for issues which impact their game play, and whether this is taken on board by devs or not, is really something they can decide for themselves.  Like you said in one of your other posts, sh.... happens, people will deal with it, obviously, as they have no other choice.  Pans will be removed, that much is clear.  Players would like to know how all of the issues raised may be addressed, and if decay on armor, weapons, tools, enchanted mats etc. is not going to be addressed, that is fine, we would like to know.  I understand you don't care one way or another, as you play your game differently, and that is your choice.  However, fountain pans are legal, and people responding to the concerns they have for when the pans are removed from game, is legitimate.  It is a matter for the devs to respond to, as Pashka asked right in the Original Post. 

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1 hour ago, Wargasm said:

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

No book you can write will justify your personal need to impose your personal game play style being the only viable one in a sandbox.

 

There are no limits on how much of anything you can own imposed by mechanics. Until there is, get off the hoarding soapbox.

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While fountain pans are being removed, magic chests will remain. Theres still option for storing tools and enchanted materials decay free.

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Not if they are not being changed any.  I was left with the impression by you and Budda both that we'd be seeing another item or a change to the items that are currently available.  If nothing is going to happen, I sure wish someone would just say that instead of leading us all on. 

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9 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Not if they are not being changed any.  I was left with the impression by you and Budda both that we'd be seeing another item or a change to the items that are currently available.  If nothing is going to happen, I sure wish someone would just say that instead of leading us all on. 

 Agreeded 

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Any changes will be announced prior to their removal.

 

That said though, they'll be announced if and when they're ready, bumping and arguing in this thread serves no purpose.

 

If it continues to be arguments there'll be no choice but to lock it.

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29 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Not if they are not being changed any.  I was left with the impression by you and Budda both that we'd be seeing another item or a change to the items that are currently available.  If nothing is going to happen, I sure wish someone would just say that instead of leading us all on. 

this

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The time is getting closer and closer to the end of the pans.  We are just trying to find out the replacement so we can make plans that will include the change.

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