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Pashka

Fountain pan Replacements

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On 6/30/2016 at 4:47 AM, Budda said:

The talk of replacing them was in terms of the functionality that isn't available by other means (such as painting the largest boats), not the functionality that adds a tardis effect to any container. We'll be looking into some more things to replace their useful (and not broken) functionality before we take them out, but don't expect to keep the ability of expanding any container to stupidly huge storage.

 

There has already been an official dev response, if you bothered to read page 1 of this thread. 

 

Your retardedly huge storage is going away.  Get over it.  Whether or not Rolf will expand the volume of small or large magic chests is an entirely different discussion.

 

Can we please close this thread now?

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On 8/19/2016 at 1:06 AM, Retrograde said:

that doesn't solve anything, just means everyone has access to the broken mechanic.

 

We haven't forgotten, but won't be announcing any plans prematurely

 

 

Looking at this response and the one from Budda saying he was aware gives me the impression that they are going to be giving us something.  For some reason they just do not want to tell us yet.  I would like to know what if anything I can put into my plans for getting rid of the fountain pans.  We just need some kind of idea.

Edited by Pashka
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4 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Looking at this response and the one from Budda saying he was aware gives me the impression that they are going to be giving us something.  For some reason they just do not want to tell us yet.  I would like to know what if anything I can put into my plans for getting rid of the fountain pans.  We just need some kind of idea.

Isn't the only function not already replaced the ability to have massive no-decay storage for non-bsb/fsb items by putting a fountain pan in a magic chest?

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5 minutes ago, Darmalus said:

Isn't the only function not already replaced the ability to have massive no-decay storage for non-bsb/fsb items by putting a fountain pan in a magic chest?

 

Pretty much.  People are pissed because they're losing that, and they're losing whatever they paid for the fountain pan in the first place.

 

Personally, I think they should just replace them with small magical chests and call it a day.

 

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How many Magic chests will I need to get to replace the capacity to hold the 3,000kg of tools, armour, weapons, unique skulls, ect ect that Aristia and myself have accumulated over the years and put inside the small magic chest and multiple backpack fountains stored inside?

Edited by Cerberus
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34 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

How many Magic chests will I need to get to replace the capacity to hold the 3,000kg of tools, armour, weapons, unique skulls, ect ect that Aristia and myself have accumulated over the years and put inside the small magic chest and multiple backpack fountains stored inside?

 

as long as you're aware how absurdly broken that was in the first place

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3 hours ago, SeeD said:

 

as long as you're aware how absurdly broken that was in the first place

 

I'm pretty sure every man and his dog knows it's broken and the people that dont have fountain pans ask "why can't we have them too". But the fact is broken or not, people may have spend a lot of money for these and to just remove them out of the game without some compensation, once again....angers people. Don't remove things or nerf things that people have either spent money or a lot of time acquiring them. Do I know the answer? Are people complaining that much that they need to be addressed? Is this something that matter little to people and time would be better spent on other things?

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1 hour ago, Milosanx said:

 

I'm pretty sure every man and his dog knows it's broken and the people that dont have fountain pans ask "why can't we have them too". But the fact is broken or not, people may have spend a lot of money for these and to just remove them out of the game without some compensation, once again....angers people. Don't remove things or nerf things that people have either spent money or a lot of time acquiring them. Do I know the answer? Are people complaining that much that they need to be addressed? Is this something that matter little to people and time would be better spent on other things?

I think the question is (as I have said it before), what impact has the change on game. Does it improve the gameplay for those, who don't own fountain pans. Nope, I don't own one and are they in game or not, that has no effect on me. Does it affect those, who own them? Yes, a lot. And current users aren't bug users any more, many of them have bought the items legitimately.

 

In essence this is similar to Niru's scamming case. Why weren't the items returned to their rightful owners? Simply because many items had changed hands already so much, taking them away from the current owners would've meant punishing innocent people. Same here, the items may have come into existance via bug, but current users don't have anything to do with it(at least many of them).

 

Of course that makes things even more interesting (if it is true), that mamadarkness wanted to buy a fountain pan, but after hearing how much it cost, there soon arrived post about removal of those items.

 

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If the devs had destroyed them and prevented their creation in the first place...

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Classic case of --remove them and upset the many, keep them and upset a few. Good business model.

 

Classic case of --Dev bug, players suffers.

 

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Fountain Pans...still talking about this? I left WO several months ago...Thank you Rolf for WU.

Now, you saw the results in the number of subs on your pay monthly to play model.

Do not make WO harder, do not piss off the few old players that supported you for so many years, and are in possession of something that make them still pay month by month to access your servers.

I don't know, but i feel like Captain Obvious right now...it all seems so just common business sense.

 

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20 hours ago, Wargasm said:

they're losing whatever they paid for the fountain pan in the first place.

 

This is the biggest problem. I remember when I first started playing, these where still in game and folks was selling and buying em for 50s to 1g a piece.  

 

It might not seem like a big deal to some folks and they say 'Oh well you bought a bugged item' hell I feel that way sometimes, but I understand the absurdity of expecting folks to just eat that much in game money that can be translated to real life currency.

 

If there was no transition between in game currency and real life cash then folks might not be so pissed about it, but face it, they are and they're loosing what they see as an investment.

 

 

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That's what I love most about this:

"Let's antagonize the people who're willing to pay $100+ for an ingame item in the first place, because, you know, people with too much disposable income are bad to have as customers."

 

The Wogic! IT BURNS! 

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33 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

That's what I love most about this:

"Let's antagonize the people who're willing to pay $100+ for an ingame item in the first place, because, you know, people with too much disposable income are bad to have as customers."

"we spend more money on the game thus we deserve special treatment!"

 

I'd say being given a years notice is pretty damn good, even if you bought it just before the announcement, and paid 1g at best, that works out to 100 euros over 365 days, that's 27 euro cents a day. which works out to a coffee every 7-8 days.

 

I'm keen on seeing what comes as a result of this, but I'm not sorry to see the fountain pans go

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I'm keen on seeing what comes as a result of this,

 

Once again diminishing playercount, diminishing returns for CC would be my guess. Don't forget many of those same players allready got bitten by the taking away (effectively) of traders too, that's another 50s a piece 'investment' taken away without compensation. Too much is too much.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't really expect to be.

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People always blame whatever they don't like on the dip, when it's one simple fact, a lot of people enjoyed playing wurm solo without having to worry about randoms or balance.

 

Some might have preferred faster rates, some might have had issues with bugs or moderation or dev decisions, but I'd dare say they're a rather tiny minority, they just enjoy being loud on the forums.I would be surprised if fountain pans caused more than 3-5 people to leave wurm.

 

Fact is, 35000 people paid 30 bucks for WU, even being conservative, that equates to at least 35-70 thousand cumulative months of premium. diminishing returns is a false idea.

 

But the removal of a clearly broken item is beneficial to the game as a whole, regardless of a small minority of players crying foul.

 

And before everyone starts accusing me of being jealous or whatever, I have one myself, and I paid 1g for it, I got my moneys worth though.

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Don't think they helped the game having bugged items

 

Problem is that the development been having trouble generating a stable economy from day one

 

Originally traders spamming out tons of free silver and people could start generating profit in 3 months

Originally folks would lockup dragons to farm armor

Fountain Bag adding to the mess of a broken decay system which Merchants and alts accounts zero decay adding more fuel too

Basically forcing some people to buy the game currency

 

The Whole Game economy needs to be look at and the decay system especially since a lot of decor items aren't protected on deed

 

Decay currently has turn most deeds into bland messes and hasn't stop some items from flooding the server

 

 

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11 hours ago, SeeD said:

I'd say being given a years notice is pretty damn good, even if you bought it just before the announcement, and paid 1g at best, that works out to 100 euros over 365 days, that's 27 euro cents a day. which works out to a coffee every 7-8 days.

 

I'll be around your town next year and will be taking your PC's monitor.  It's OK though, you've likely had it for over a year so $150/365, you're not even losing $0.50 a day which is really pennies for all the enjoyment it's given you.  I'll even leave you a bag of good quality coffee... want ground or full bean?

 

Just because you spent money on it doesn't mean you should have a better monitor than mine.

 

(Edit:  You communist you...)

Edited by Mordraug
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A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

 

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"Straw man" is also often invoked by those who don't understand metaphors/analogies/similes or refuse to understand them =)

 

I'm pretty sure you got this one.

 

Back on topic:  You don't mind losing yours, good for you (no sarcasm).  Now let's talk some more business sense.  Having antagonized the segment of the player base that's willing to throw $100 on in-game luxury, more than a few at the base of the pyramid will wind up wondering "If the big spenders are exposed to losing their investment on unpredictable whimsy, how soon before John Does such as myself get whimsied out of some investment?".

 

Bad business all around mon.

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At this point I just hope they do the smart thing and introduce no-decay for all on deed items which can be repaired and cannot be stored in bulk storage bins or crates. The quality of life aspect of no decay storage simply can't be denied, removing it without a good replacement isn't smart. Of course you could say that there currently already exists a good replacement (no, I'm not referring to the overpriced magic chests), namely alts. 10 silver and you've got a permanent, no decay, storage alt. It's even mobile and you can put a ton of items on it, mainly limited by weight. So removing fountain pans only makes another issue bigger, namely those storage alts. Who here actually thinks it's a good thing that the most efficient and safe way to store your items is by using storage alts?

Best way to fix this issue once and for all is no-decay on deed for items which can be repaired and don't fit in bulk storage. After all we wouldn't want all our items in inventory to start decaying next because suddenly storage alts are considered a bug, do we?

 

Then the people who lose fountain pans get to keep the quality of life they got from those items, and everybody else gets to enjoy it too. Win win for everybody. Though sure you could say that people with magic chests are losing out, but they are no different from people who bought fountain pans (except that they actually get to keep their chests, and they can use them to store enchanted/rare lumps, etc, so lucky them), so I don't quite see the issue there.

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45 minutes ago, Mordraug said:

"Straw man" is also often invoked by those who don't understand metaphors/analogies/similes or refuse to understand them =)

 

I'm pretty sure you got this one.

 

Back on topic:  You don't mind losing yours, good for you (no sarcasm).  Now let's talk some more business sense.  Having antagonized the segment of the player base that's willing to throw $100 on in-game luxury, more than a few at the base of the pyramid will wind up wondering "If the big spenders are exposed to losing their investment on unpredictable whimsy, how soon before John Does such as myself get whimsied out of some investment?".

 

Bad business all around mon.

Your argument is so poor that its silly

 

The devs did not sell the fountain pans, they did not make money off it, people who spent money on it did so via player to player trades, NOTHING to do with CC at all.

 

Goverments change laws on things all the time.

 

38 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

At this point I just hope they do the smart thing and introduce no-decay for all on deed items which can be repaired and cannot be stored in bulk storage bins or crates. The quality of life aspect of no decay storage simply can't be denied, removing it without a good replacement isn't smart. Of course you could say that there currently already exists a good replacement (no, I'm not referring to the overpriced magic chests), namely alts. 10 silver and you've got a permanent, no decay, storage alt. It's even mobile and you can put a ton of items on it, mainly limited by weight. So removing fountain pans only makes another issue bigger, namely those storage alts. Who here actually thinks it's a good thing that the most efficient and safe way to store your items is by using storage alts?

Best way to fix this issue once and for all is no-decay on deed for items which can be repaired and don't fit in bulk storage. After all we wouldn't want all our items in inventory to start decaying next because suddenly storage alts are considered a bug, do we?

 

Then the people who lose fountain pans get to keep the quality of life they got from those items, and everybody else gets to enjoy it too. Win win for everybody. Though sure you could say that people with magic chests are losing out, but they are no different from people who bought fountain pans (except that they actually get to keep their chests, and they can use them to store enchanted/rare lumps, etc, so lucky them), so I don't quite see the issue there.

 

I love those who cry "the economy is failing!" but then demand almost free mailing, and everlasting items.

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2 hours ago, SeeD said:

I love those who cry "the economy is failing!" but then demand almost free mailing, and everlasting items.

 

I'm sure you do, though I don't see what it has to do with anything I said.

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2 hours ago, SeeD said:

The devs did not sell the fountain pans, they did not make money off it, people who spent money on it did so via player to player trades, NOTHING to do with CC at all.

.

@MordraugYou didn't plant a Silver Tree. Silly you buying silver from CC, who made money off it.

 

Silly arguments indeed.

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2 hours ago, Audrel said:

.

@MordraugYou didn't plant a Silver Tree. Silly you buying silver from CC, who made money off it.

 

Silly arguments indeed.

 

Who said he bought silver to pay for it?  He could have acquired the silver through other players.

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