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Pashka

Fountain pan Replacements

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So what happens to the people who bought magic chests if suddenly house contents on paid-up deeds are granted no-decay.

 

I do understand the situation - I've owned some fountain pans in the past (and no I didn't sell them so I'm not sitting laughing at a hefty profit)

 

It's always impossible to satisfy everyone. Somewhere a line has to be drawn and some will be disappointed. I've also seen a number of people referring to Rolf saying they'll stay in the game forever, but yet to see any proof of that [enter the conspiracy that we removed all evidence of this before discussing the removal of fountain pans :rolleyes: ]. From my memory any comment was like the double enchanted weapons: "Play as is for now, we're not doing anything about them at this moment.". Evidently things are now being done. I'd be happy to be proved wrong though if such a thing was ever said.

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28 minutes ago, Hordern said:

So what happens to the people who bought magic chests if suddenly house contents on paid-up deeds are granted no-decay.

 

I've also seen a number of people referring to Rolf saying they'll stay in the game forever, but yet to see any proof of that [enter the conspiracy that we removed all evidence of this before discussing the removal of fountain pans :rolleyes: ]. 

1st question, can't answer that one to be honest, I just always found it weird how bad the decay rates were or why my stuff decayed at all.

 

2nd, I am doing my best to find it, because I know it exists. I haven't been able to find all the Q&A's for the last 5 years but i am confident that it where it came from. However the patch notes whenever the fountains were done even called them and referred to them as legacy items. It isn't uncommon though for staff to delete threads or posts. Anyone who has been around this game any significant amount of time knows that. The purpose of development is to ADD to the game, not subtract from it. This is a subtraction of content whether intended or not, it happened, it was allowed to stay. Rolf acknowledges it as a legacy item, it has been referred to as a legacy item even in its changing.

 

Edit: This forum has been redone a number of times over the years I have been around. Some threads even lost in the move's, some archived so far out of sight, anyone know how we find those?

 

Edit #2: I have found a few Q&A's going back to 2012, but I havent been able to find the ones before that. This is where we need to be is in the 2011-2010 range. 

Edited by Ruger

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36 minutes ago, Ruger said:

It isn't uncommon though for staff to delete threads or posts. Anyone who has been around this game any significant amount of time knows that.

For the purposes of disclosure, actually we never delete anything. Some posts and topics are hidden if they contravene the forum rules, but that's all. Some disused boards are archived which I guess would also put them out of sight of most people so it's possible the references are somewhere in there. I'll have a dig through in the next day or so. Thankfully the search function in these forums - while not perfect - is a lot better than the last version!

If you have any particular search terms you think would be useful I'd appreciate the help :)

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8 hours ago, Hordern said:

So what happens to the people who bought magic chests if suddenly house contents on paid-up deeds are granted no-decay.

 

It's always impossible to satisfy everyone. Somewhere a line has to be drawn and some will be disappointed.


If it makes them redundant, which I guess it indeed mostly does (though you could use them outside of a building) then it could be as simply as: right click chest, click "Refund" option. Poof chest is gone and you get your money back. Of course only usable if rights wise you can also load/unload the chest. The reason it can easily work here is that the magic chests actually have a set value on a trader, and since the refund option is optional it should satisfy everybody. Want to keep your chest? You can. There's no disadvantage there for anybody.

 

The only disadvantage is that it might hurt magic chest sales from the trader. On the other hand the removal of fountains already did that as now the best storage option (Quality of life and cost wise wise) is no doubt alts, not the magic chest, there's no reason to buy a magic chest now.

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3 hours ago, Ecrir said:

now the best storage option (Quality of life and cost wise wise) is no doubt alts, not the magic chest, there's no reason to buy a magic chest now

 

I think this is the best reasoning for adding some kind of accessible no-decay storage or removing decay.

 

When the most efficient option is also the most annoying / least fun one... that's just bad game design.

 

Added: As a hint for the devs - look how many big WU servers are using the bag of holding mod (that adds a spell that embiggens containers).

Edited by bdew
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On 7/4/2016 at 2:44 AM, Ruger said:

Which leads me to believe that these were only changed because some new developer got into position and was like "Yeah these are stupid" (primarily because they didn't have one) which got Rolf to change it or they changed it themselves then brought it to rolf saying "hey I got a fix for those bugged items".

Ruger is actually right here,

2 or 3 months before this thread:

I was selling few fountain pans when i got pm'd by Mamadarkness asking for price; 

They were going for 70s back then but for Mom it was too expensive. Luckily for me i sold all of them just in time like i knew it was coming. I feel sorry for the people that spent hundreds of $$ on those

And yeah as ruger said this sentence sums all up ""Yeah these are stupid" (primarily because they didn't have one)"

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4 hours ago, Ecrir said:


If it makes them redundant, which I guess it indeed mostly does (though you could use them outside of a building) then it could be as simply as: right click chest, click "Refund" option. Poof chest is gone and you get your money back. Of course only usable if rights wise you can also load/unload the chest. The reason it can easily work here is that the magic chests actually have a set value on a trader, and since the refund option is optional it should satisfy everybody. Want to keep your chest? You can. There's no disadvantage there for anybody.

 

The only disadvantage is that it might hurt magic chest sales from the trader. On the other hand the removal of fountains already did that as now the best storage option (Quality of life and cost wise wise) is no doubt alts, not the magic chest, there's no reason to buy a magic chest now.

 

Do i understand it right that you want a refund for a item you used for a really long time and got the full advantage of this?

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I like that link to that discussion, I didn't know that discussion took place. I have't began to fully read it but I immediately laugh because I forgot all about another fun little item that is STILL IN THE GAME.

 

So 

 

How bout those STEEL SMALL MAGIC CHESTS though?

 

That were created by accident? Those give a hell of a unfair advantage if we're talking about what gives and doesn't give an advantage. 

 

@Hordernlegacy item, legacy items, fountain, fountain containers, Q&A, developer q&a, .... those are a few terms. What about the boards and threads lost in the 2012 forum crash? I know a few threads were saved but not all. Some accounts were lost and some were converted to "Guest" accounts. Are those in yalls "archives" that cant be seen?

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4 hours ago, Biervampyr said:

 

Do i understand it right that you want a refund for a item you used for a really long time and got the full advantage of this?

 

I do not own any magic chests nor have I ever bought any, I've got alts for that, so the answer would be no.

Would I mind if people whom have a magic chest can get a refund, if due to an update they are made redundant, then my answer would also be no, I wouldn't mind at all. I'd be completely fine with that, even if it's a full refund (excluding what can be drained back from a trader after buying such a chest). Sure they got full advantage from those chests, but if there's no decay inside on deed houses at all then everybody else now gets that advantage for free, so what's the problem in that scenario? If they can't get a refund then shouldn't we have to pay 50s at a deed token in order to enable the no decay in houses?

 

Doesn't sound like a bad idea actually, a one time payment of 50-100s to remove decay inside houses on the deed in question. I'd pay that. It probably would need the ability for large magic chest owners to trade in their chests for (a discount) towards this ability.

Edited by Ecrir
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8 hours ago, Ruger said:

 

@Hordernlegacy item, legacy items, fountain, fountain containers, Q&A, developer q&a, .... those are a few terms. What about the boards and threads lost in the 2012 forum crash? I know a few threads were saved but not all. Some accounts were lost and some were converted to "Guest" accounts. Are those in yalls "archives" that cant be seen?

Hmm, I'd forgotten about that big crash... :(

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folks just want their ###### to stop decaying. I used this fountain satchel trick so I bought a small magic chest to store it all in as it's cheaper as other did too, or a large magic chest.

 

My chest becomes worthless when the rifts vanish, the only useful thing would be for it to hold a meal but the fact it stops decay on food items is a bug in itself!!! Small magic chests hold such small amount of storage it will now be a waste but ah well.

 

Since these things are magic, you may as well increase their volume to some obscene amount, that means people can chuck in any a 100x of an item with no concern of decay. (p.s. pls buff my small magic chest)

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It really is all about decay on items for me.  A chest that becomes obsolete is nothing if my items on my deed won't decay.  The decay of items such as logs etc have already been dealt with.  They no longer decay in a bsb/crate on deed.  (not sure if the 30 days plays into that or not).  Liquids don't have that.  Not being a dye maker I do not know how fast/slow those decay.  But I do have many keepsakes.  Some as small as a rose sent to me by a player that is no longer with us.  Some worth a bit more but still a remembrance of a player that may or may not be active anymore.  I don't understand why we have to deal with this on deed.

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7 hours ago, Hordern said:

Hmm, I'd forgotten about that big crash... :(

Everyone does. I like I said in my original post on how far back the comment was made. We're looking back in the time frame of the big forum crash. If all these players are sitting here saying "he said this, he said they were legacy items and not being removed. They were part of the gaming history and development, etc." then obviously that should be a flag of some sorts to the common thinking man. I have several private messages going of people trying to help each other find it. Some trying to dig in archives they cant access. Some scouring through wurmpedia to see if it was logged in there somewhere. People consistently saying he said this. Hell he even said himself that he may or may not of said it and doesn't remember it. Now this is rolf we are talking about. Not calling this guy a liar but he is known to be a bit forgetful. Players were buying these things because they were secure in the fact they werent going anywhere because the were assured by him. They didn't start really going on sell until he assured the playerbase these items were okay. They didnt make a big appearance in the market until the assurance was created. 

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Surely someone, SOMEWHERE has saved a log of the IRC discussions? I've not yet had a chance to check the forum archives - hopefully later today.

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Interesting thing that I remembered from q&a in irc some time ago...  I don't have the logs handy, but using rafts in carts/boats as storage was called an exploit.  The result of this is we got crates, however crates don't really work the same as rafts do and we retained the functionality of rafts anyway

 

Now I'm not saying we should keep bugged items like fountain containers, but increasing the size of magic chests running off this precedent of rafts/crates seems reasonable right

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When you remove my fountain pack please bring back Poolsclosed as a refund.

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On ‎7‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 8:41 AM, Hordern said:

Surely someone, SOMEWHERE has saved a log of the IRC discussions? I've not yet had a chance to check the forum archives - hopefully later today.

Sorry it took me a while - no functioning internet at home. Thanks to that forum crash, nothing appears from early enough.

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Nothing, I mean NOTHING should decay on a deed with at least 30 days upkeep.  What better way to retain players than by guaranteeing their precious items will not decay as long as they keep their upkeep paid?  Decay should be a mechanic to remove ABANDONED deed items.

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9 hours ago, Eyesgood said:

Nothing, I mean NOTHING should decay on a deed with at least 30 days upkeep.  What better way to retain players than by guaranteeing their precious items will not decay as long as they keep their upkeep paid?  Decay should be a mechanic to remove ABANDONED deed items.

 

*agrees*

Deed placement and upkeep cost RL funds which provide income for the game, thus they should have *perks* not otherwise provided. No decay of anything on deed fits well into this concept of rewarding players for paying for deed benefits. In contrast it is a poor concept to discourage and frustrate players by reducing the quality of items that they have already spent a lot of time creating and improving. Somehow this is thought to encourage players to continue to play and maintain these items?

 

=Ayes=

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At least they should add a bunch more items as no decay such as barrels and larfe anvils on deed

Edited by enoofu

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11 hours ago, Ayes said:

 

*agrees*

Deed placement and upkeep cost RL funds which provide income for the game, thus they should have *perks* not otherwise provided. No decay of anything on deed fits well into this concept of rewarding players for paying for deed benefits. In contrast it is a poor concept to discourage and frustrate players by reducing the quality of items that they have already spent a lot of time creating and improving. Somehow this is thought to encourage players to continue to play and maintain these items?

 

=Ayes=

 

This, deeds definetly need a perk that removes decay on all items which cannot be stored in bins/crates. Even if it's something which you can enable for a small increase in deed upkeep (to compensate for magic chests costing silver).

Right now I haven't bothered making things like armor stands to display armor with, as then my armor would be damaged when I'd actually need it, and since I can't reimp it myself that just isn't a fun outcome of using an armor stand. It just feels like the game is trying to punish me for trying to decorate my deed, at which point I sometimes do seriously wonder why I should even bother. Right now I just store such items on alts and ignore cosmetic items like armor stands, which is a shame since cosmetics can make a game so much better.

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Never understood the need for decay the way it has been.

 

Not sure about how the code is organised but logically the simplest way would be to say no decay on anything in a building on a deed.

 

If its kept inside it can be assumed to be being "looked after", if outside its exposed to the elements and thus needs some degree of maintenance.

 

I'm much the same, important things I can't put down as I don't want them taking unnecessary damage. I'd prefer to focus on playing the game rather than some sort of maintenance guy.

 

 

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What did I used a fountain pan for? I put them inside magic chests to remove decay. Right off hand these are the main things I stored.

1. rares

2. lumps when quality averaging seemed detrimental

3. enchanted imping resources

4. dyes

5. food

6. transporting food items that didn't' make sense to put in crates.

 

1. rares bulk bin. A bin that can only hold rares. Given how bsb works a dedicated bin means Wurm doesn't have to figure out how to differentiate rares from non-rares.

2. A smaller bulk bin. a) Not limited by item count! b) Can be picked up as long as toon has the strength to hold whatever the contents weight. c) can be placed inside another container as long as the parent is large enough to hold it. It's stupid to make a bulk bin to hold 50 lumps.

3. I don't have a simple solution here. I do like the idea of a resource glove that can be enchanted and transfers it's enchant to any resource.

4. dye rack, milk rack, liquid rack....a large barrel holding thing that only holds small barrels. No barrels or the contents of the barrels take decay.

5. Oh, my goodness. The idea of accelerating decay of food in order to create a need for roadside inns or bars was stupid. It hasn't worked for the past 8 years. Give up on it already.

6. It's a disadvantage to transport say corn in crates. If we had small portable bulk bins that are only limited by volume this would be solved.

Lastly, no furniture items should take decay on deed. Things like BSB, FSB, Dye rack shouldn't take decay on deed.

 

 

For what it's worth, now that I'm in WU I just modded containers so they have huge volumes. Every container holds more than a Caravel.

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Why not just activate the bag of holding spell for WO that works so wonderfully in WU?

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