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Pashka

Fountain pan Replacements

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At this point it's a game feature, you've had nearly a year to implement a better storage system yet I do not see it.

I'm talking about item storage, we need something that slows decay abit and is huge, somthing better then Large Magic chests (50s) and Coffins.

 

Liquid storage stuff, great.. correct me if I'm wrong but decay still happens with liquids inside amphora's, the only real use is them being able to paint large boats.

Edited by Niki

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I'm curious as to why reduced decay is being discussed as a requirement in relation to fountain pan replacements as they [fountain pans] have no impact on decay different to any other standard container...

 

Personally I don't think decay is an issue. I have been away from my deed for 4 months or more several times and run around repairing stuff, only to find most items only have 5 to 20 damage depending on QL.

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Hordern, they remove decay when dropped in a magic chest. I have no idea of your ingame aquirements, but I would give up the first time I log in and see 20 damage on my adamantine and seryll plate sets, drake/scale sets, rare weapons and other items of value to me. I am very well aware of how to use alts for storage, but is that really the intended way to store items? isnt that even more bugged than the space rifts them selfs?

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1 hour ago, Mith said:

Enoofu, it was Retrograde that shared that bit of news. Not Tich. not that it matters much beside it being Retrograde that took the heat. no matter how many times you say they are bugged items, it does not make them so. They started that way, but after they where declared legit and legacy items, the "bugged item" tag does no longer apply. Hence they have been treated so. now they are on the way out, and we are asking for the replacement item we where promised.

 

There was a Tich posting on this forum about them around 3-4 years ago about this subject, and Tich did post the developers feeling on this subject

 

The development team did view them as Bugged items, but they weren't going after people that used this items like Legacy items

 

Don't really blame the developers since the item didn't officially exist after all it was a pan/bag with a fountain inside it

and it's behavior was dependent on bad coding

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

So far the Developers gave out Ship transporters and Wagons way before they removed the items

Then the Developers fixed Huge tubs, and added amphora to store liquids and paint during their removal

Plus added in a Smelter and removed BSB decay on deed after the fact


 

 

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I feel like you devs hardly play this game. If your seriously asking me why decay isn't a issue.

 

Deed decay is ludicrous and still an issue, even if you put tons of upkeep into your deed items decay quite fast.

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Personally I believe decay always been out of wack, either it makes items last for years or disappear over night

 

I have a question for the community, do you want less decay on deed but faster decay offdeed as a compromise?

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Mith said:

Hordern, they remove decay when dropped in a magic chest. I have no idea of your ingame aquirements, but I would give up the first time I log in and see 20 damage on my adamantine and seryll plate sets, drake/scale sets, rare weapons and other items of value to me. I am very well aware of how to use alts for storage, but is that really the intended way to store items? isnt that even more bugged than the space rifts them selfs?

I see, so the actual request here is just expanding the magic chests to basically hold an infinite amount of stuff.

 

I can understand making everything fit in large magic chests as in including those items that won't due to their particular 'size', but if you want to fit more stuff (as in total items) than can be got in one (in a non-bugged way) - buy more magic chests...?

 

 

Incidentally, I keep my 'precious' items in the bank or on my accounts - I have several but none are purely for storage. I appreciate others have MANY more 'precious' items than me, but that's what Magic Chests are for - hence my agreement to make sure any item can fit in (barring larger storage containers obviously...), but I don't think making them so that one holds basically everything you could ever own is necessary.

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I don't think anyone has asked for infinite.  But we definately need a way to store more items than we can at present.  Yes, I do mean the ability to store more than 100 normal items.  This means that we should have some sort of container that will hold items and will fit into a magic chest.  I do understand that I can store items on multiple characters that aren't used.  Goodness knows we all have them.  But as Mith said, is this really what is intended?  I somehow doubt it.  But if that is what it takes then so be it.  But we were promised an item or an expanded current item when the timer went on.  I do not understand why now that everyone is so against it.  It isn't like it is going to take anything from anyone.  It will be something that anyone can get.  Where is the problem with this?

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15 minutes ago, Pashka said:

I don't think anyone has asked for infinite.  But we definately need a way to store more items than we can at present.  Yes, I do mean the ability to store more than 100 normal items.  This means that we should have some sort of container that will hold items and will fit into a magic chest.

Well fountain pans allow for infinite storage because you can fit them inside each other. You can fit various containers inside large chests so they can already hold considerably more than 100 items. Or have I missed something? I was under the impression Large Magic Chests have the same capacity rules as normal Large Chests. Hence my understanding that people are effectively asking for infinite storage as one can already store a considerable number of items inside a LMC.

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That is exactly how I have used them as a place for well a very good bit of free from decay storage.  I wouldn't need that if items such as tools and the like did not decay on a deed with upkeep in it.  But we do.  I understand that the replacement item will not be anywhere as good as the item that I currently hold.  That doesn't mean that I do not want something though.  Something that we were indeed promised in all the chain of posts when they were being changed to a rift with a finite time to remain in game.  The amphoras were already in game at that point so that was not the discussion of the replacement.

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30 minutes ago, Pashka said:

I understand that the replacement item will not be anywhere as good as the item that I currently hold.

This I think is where I struggle. People want something better than a LMC, but less than a fountain pan (i.e. infinite). Where to draw the line? LMC's to my mind already hold a considerable amount (though I also think they should be able to hold some items that don't currently squeeze in) Something like boosting the LMC to the volume of a fountain? To my mind that makes it rather cheap though, so perhaps a new item: A Magic Fountain (it could spray rainbow coloured water around :P ) which can be purchased for 1g? Can't go about making the LMC bigger but more expensive too because then we'd be inundated with complaints about windows of opportunity. But then this thread is about replacing the fountain pans in game, not cause the people who own them to go and have to spend money to buy the 'replacement'.

 

Trouble is there are so many uses of a fountain pan which are caused by it's effectively infinite capacity (heating all of your smithing stuff in one forge for instance), so which of those uses should be focussed on? this thread seems to focus on the no decay magical chest thing, but what would that mean for people who care more for the huge forge aspect?

 

What if the fountains popped out of their holding containers and then if said fountain popped out if it was in another fountain but stopping if it's inside the overall container. Basically this would mean you'd end up with the fountains inside the 'root' container. I can then just imagine how much someone could sell a LMC with 10 fountains inside it for... Perhaps a limit of 1 fountain per root container? Still far more useful than the standard LMC volume. Also still better than a forge. Trouble is, it's still effectively leaving bugged items lying around, just with lower 'usefulness' so we're back to square one. As such coming up with a way of replacing the current ones isn't easy as different people would have different preferences on what it does, and you can't make something that does all the things, because then it'll be the same item!

 

 

2 hours ago, Niki said:

Deed decay is ludicrous and still an issue, even if you put tons of upkeep into your deed items decay quite fast.

Which items? I've been pretty inactive of late - logged in recently after 4 months away - and the items lying around in my houses (I didn't leave things out in the open) had very little decay on at all. Though come to think of it even the meditation rugs were still on the tiles outside - I think... Not that they were high QL. 30 to 40ish I think.

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go see how many pelts you can fit in a LMC lol its a joke

 

+1 for expanding LMC capacity if that is up for debate

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53 minutes ago, Hordern said:

Which items? I've been pretty inactive of late - logged in recently after 4 months away - and the items lying around in my houses (I didn't leave things out in the open) had very little decay on at all. Though come to think of it even the meditation rugs were still on the tiles outside - I think... Not that they were high QL. 30 to 40ish I think.

Marble Brazier Pillars, Turrets, Masonry items, bsbs, fsbs, crates, wagons, carts, ships etc, anything that you leave out has the potential to decay. Even things inside houses that are in containers decay, chain sets, plate, tools. If your going to remove fountain containers, remove or tone down deed decay it's that simple.

 

It's a hassle to repair my deeds every month if I don't want to loose anything.

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9 minutes ago, Niki said:

Marble Brazier Pillars, Turrets, Masonry items, bsbs, fsbs, crates, wagons, carts, ships etc, anything that you leave out has the potential to decay. Even things inside houses that are in containers decay, chain sets, plate, tools. If your going to remove fountain containers, remove or tone down deed decay it's that simple.

 

It's a hassle to repair my deeds every month if I don't want to loose anything.

Personally I think things like braziers and turrets and the like should be exempt from decay on deed with upkeep etc etc (possibly the same for the bulk storage containers). As for all the little bits and bobs. tools, armour etc etc. If you have SO much, Personally I don't think it's too much to ask for that player to need to buy more Magic Chests rather than have 1 to hold everything. As mentioned above, I have recently been away from my deed for considerable lengths of time and I haven't found the decay to be a concern - and I don't have any magic chests.

 

 

35 minutes ago, TradingAlt said:

go see how many pelts you can fit in a LMC lol its a joke

 

+1 for expanding LMC capacity if that is up for debate

wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

I'm all for adjusting volumes of the items themselves rather than the containers where needed. My initial thought was fishing rods, but pelts are another of those oddities.

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8 hours ago, Hordern said:

Personally I think things like braziers and turrets and the like should be exempt from decay on deed with upkeep etc etc (possibly the same for the bulk storage containers). As for all the little bits and bobs. tools, armour etc etc. If you have SO much, Personally I don't think it's too much to ask for that player to need to buy more Magic Chests rather than have 1 to hold everything. As mentioned above, I have recently been away from my deed for considerable lengths of time and I haven't found the decay to be a concern - and I don't have any magic chests.

 

Yet why would you buy any magic chests when they can contain so little? For 50s I can prem up 5 alts and store a lot more without decay than those tiny large magic chests ever could (in other words,  magic chests are way way way way way way way overpriced). I have found decay to be an issue on my deeds in the past, though since moving to Xanadu it has been much less of an issue, perhaps decay happens less often there due to the sheer size of that server. Yet I still do store my most valuable and high ql stuff on a priest alt because decay on those items is nothing but an annoyance. I play Wurm to have fun, not to have to deal with pointless, boring, annoyances.

From that point of view I can totally understand why people used fountain pans inside large magic chests, because that removed an annoyance and allows the player to spend more of his in game time on stuff that's actually fun.

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12 hours ago, Hordern said:

I'm all for adjusting volumes of the items themselves rather than the containers where needed. My initial thought was fishing rods, but pelts are another of those oddities.

 

One of the very few sensible things said, because yes LMC should be able to contain things that are normally able to be stored regardless of size, such as fishing rods, spears, halberds, barding, ... really one of the first legitimate points.  If the size restrictions were removed (ya increase storage length, which also affects volume) and perhaps the count or raw volume largely removed (i.e. 10 chain bardings, but *not* 15 deep nested containers) or increased then we can finally be free from these QQ posts about people's tardis' storage exploits about to expire.  

 

Fountain pans were 60-70e+ iirc before the change (i was going to buy 1-2 until saw they were an exploit), which the legitimate path was LMC (40s, not 50s), and 2-3 merchants, which should hold same legitimate amount as a fountain pan.   The fact you needed the merchants as well to hold things like fishing poles and such is the only indication of a problem.  And alts have weight limits admittedly, but you need only prem them one time and they can hold the vast assortment of little items. 

 

I am about to post a thread in WTB for estates, so anyone who is going to quit over this and wants to make a bit of money rather than let the looters get it or for it to decay away, then i may be interested in buying your collection.

 

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Never.. EVER!!! Let the fountain pans overlap.

 

fanart_portal710.jpg

Edited by Karrde

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My favorit solution would be to remove decay inside houses ondeed. An alternative to the space rift could be a metal large magic chest with the capacity of a fountain, and a general boost to magic chest capacity.

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Why not make an item on traders that lets you expand your personal bank size or the size of a large magic chest? Basically allowing for storage of larger items that don't play nice with other containers. At least this way everyone can win.

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From a personal point of view the main reason I use my LMC is to prevent decay, especially rare items, I would love it to be able to store more items, but I think that's unlikely to happen.

 

As an alternative maybe the Devs could consider preventing decay from items in the various weapons and armour stands and introduce a Fishing rod stand with the same benefits (its just annoying to my OCD to see mine laying around or lost in carts/wagons). Reduce the volume of pelts as suggested to fit more into the LMC.

 

Adding these would solve my issues of trying to preserve the rare items by storing them in the LMC without all the other clutter I try to fit in there.

 

The easiest solution would still be no decay on any item in a house, even if its limited to an on deed house with 30+ days of upkeep (expand the FSB/BSB code?) - would still like my fishing rod stand though ;)

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To be honest, this might be something that the dev's haven't anticipated, but with PVE stat restrictions being removed on F2P accounts. it would be possible to make 20-30 body strength accounts (sucks but it'll never decay or buy cheap accounts?) and use these as storage alts.

 

And rather than being limited to the base F2P model, keeping stats would increase the available storage of each account. But as many have said, this is just pointing out an issue with the game which is when you have an active deed with plenty of upkeep, maintaining such is a chore even if you spend money to play the game. And no, buying multiple LMC's is not a strategy that should ever be necessary in this game.

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All you hoarders need to let go of whatever crap you think you need this storage for.

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know what. nvm

Edited by akaedis

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@Niki, that is correct the developers don't get the oppurtunity to play the game to the level we players get to play it. They spend 10+ hours a day coding, we spend 24 hours a day wurming. That is a fundamental downfall in being a game developer you often dont get to enjoy the game you develop to the scope your players do so you just live vicariously through them and continue because your creating something others enjoy. HOWEVER, good development teams and GOOD PUBLIC RELATIONS teams convey information appropriately and make changes accordingly to the best interest of the game. Unfortunately their has always been a huge disconnect between the players an development team of wurm because no matter how great of a job wassoo did, redbaron, and now retrograde, their is still stuff they aren't privy to and conversations they have no idea about. The fact their is volunteer development staff that has come from the player base with personal agendas to attack certain things that the head of development deemed fine is absurd. 

 

@Hordern and everyone else who really doesn't understand, let me maybe try to shed a bit of light on the situation, maybe? 

 

I have been around the game eh, give or take 6 years or so now. Through this time I have been to chaos and to old deeds such as Sparta before it was leveled, Kyara, House of Mol-Rehan, Original Elites deed, Original Spiders deed, I have been AROUND. I have been able to see some the SMC of some of these deeds and kingdoms. Inside it is not uncommon to find 50+ fountain containers, filled to the max with items, containers with items, or more containers inside of those containers with more items. The keepers of these SMC's generally have them well organized and items named. Maybe it was someones signature from an old friend, we all have those in this game, maybe it was an old bugged item, maybe its a legacy item like .4kg butcher knives or 50kg anvils, maybe it was just a bunch of enchanted wares. If you go into some them it was defiantly not uncommon, especially elites, sparta, and kyara, to find full of drake hide, sets, scale and scale sets. These things would contain thousands of items. Hell I used to have a sailboat that was named "The buggy black rolf" and had rolfs signature because he had to fix a bug. People have things like the Aegis of Earth because it has Oracles name on it. People are collecting items of special metal like silver yo-yo's, tin tools, etc. now. By nature people collect. These fountain containers that HEAD DEVELOPER ROLF declared to be a legacy item that would not be removed because they have had such a profound impact on the game and found such a place, etc. are what allow people to keep a rich history of items and a rich cache of items. 

 

You say well go buy LMC's, go buy more them if you want to keep hundreds of items decay free. Um what? When was the last time you properly played with a LMC and how it holds items? This game is in a rapid state of decline via its playerbase, why would I want to inject money, 50s = 50 euro or $50 usd, into this game whenever honestly the future of this game continues to look slimmer and slimmer? Hey Ive been around for long time, Ive done my fair share in supporting this game. Hell I used to do those stupid surveys when we could just to help because I knew he got a kick back of some sorts. Ive thrown gold down the wishing well's hoping for bridges and PVP fixes. I can't see me tossing money at this game like I used to because the game doesn't feel alive anymore. Ive logged in Alexisrose and just watched chat. Ive seen global and trade chat go dead for hours. I've seen forum topics not move. It's no secret I have played the economy and know the economy of this game very well, hell I got spreadsheets and graphs tracking the economy of this game over a 4 year period and it's no secret nor hard to tell that this games economy is taken a turn for the worse. So why would I or any other player for that matter pay 50e to save 100 items. Hell I'd hate to think about how many LMC's Id have to buy back in my prime, damn my head instantly hurts even at the thought of trying to calculate that. If this game ever picks back up, the disconnect between public relations - development - player base, is ever fixed. The development team starts making strategically smart decisions and listening to its player base more, then sure I'd put money into the game again; I'd never spend hundreds of euros though just to store a couple hundred items whenever the storage method I had before was assured to me it wouldn't be going anywhere in the first place.

 

Smelters are great, they are actually cool as hell from what I have seen. Great way to replace fountain PANS for forges. Ambrosia's or whatever the big jars are, they are great for painting boats, other then that who carried around a fountain container with water in it for drinking? Last I checked we all just carried small barrels for that. 

 

Where is the replacement for item storage in an efficient manner? Where is a fix to deed decay? Why am I paying for something to decay? 

 

Why was this single item targeted but other things like bugged deeds on chaos, bugged weapons and armors, accounts that exploited skills such as: fighting, bows, shield, gardening, characteristics, weapons, fishing, locksmithing, lockpicking, archery, etc., are allowed to remain in place? Why are items we're told will remain given such attention that it required coding time to change and add into the game the change? We're told items such as hitching post, which I would probably say is in the top 5 items requested in suggestions since I started playing this game, are not added because developers dont have the time to code in new items like that but you have the time to... Yeah you get my point(maybe). Hell I've personally done the 3d modeling on the hitching post a couple times as well as other players; one player has even gone to the length of modeling it, coding it, and making it a thing for wurm unlimited but instead of taking the item and adding it into WO that isn't done. No instead we go make fountain containers into items that will vanish soon. 

 

I am all for the progression of this game. I love Wurm, I believe it is the mother to sandbox gaming. I believe that if it had a good project manager, solid staff, that it would continue to revolutionize the sandbox world. I sit here looking at the sales of WU and wonder where is all the money? Code Club used to release it's financial statements but I haven't seen a financial statement in so damn long. Why is development moving like it is? Why? Why? Why?

 

Conclusion: So the frustration is not only fountain containers being removed but a compound effect of everything going on leading up to, surrounding their removal and the removal itself.
 

TL;DR - I don't got one maybe someone else can write that up cause this is already 1,254 words.

Edited by Ruger
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