Fountain pan Replacements

[JudusX 199]

12 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

I keep hearing people say that Rolf promised never to remove fountain pans, but I've never seen one bit of evidence at all. Not a forum post, not some old thing from Google's cache, nothing.

 

Just saying.

 

its hard to dig up forum topics that have been archived or lost when the forum was moved/updated. At this point i don't care, i just want my money back be it a item to replace what im going to lose or silver, and no they did not introduce large capacity storage that stops decay for non bsb items.

[Ostentatio 1,971]

40 minutes ago, JudusX said:

 

its hard to dig up forum topics that have been archived or lost when the forum was moved/updated. At this point i don't care, i just want my money back be it a item to replace what im going to lose or silver, and no they did not introduce large capacity storage that stops decay for non bsb items.

 

Even if an item isn't bugged, and even if an item isn't removed from the game, there is never any guarantee that any in-game item you own will retain its current market value. This is a game under constant development, and it's entirely plausible that, due to changes in game mechanics or something else, an item you spent 30 silver for three years ago is worth 3 silver today. This is the nature of buying anything on the open market in a game where a significant change can happen at any time.

 

Expecting this of an item that was the result of a bug in the first place is doubly misguided. This is Wurm, after all, where it's hardly unheard of for bugs to be fixed or mechanics to be changed after staying the same for years on end. If you're buying buggy items that have serious gameplay implications, even if they've been around without comment for a long time, you're doing so at your own significant risk.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Ostentatio

[MrGARY 12,421]

I had I think like 400e worth of fountains, but like.... I got them for free so I don't even care about the money.  I just wanted to put all my crap on freedom into a magic chest so i really could ignore it

 

In the end it's good, bugged items gone, lead to bugged enchant weapons gone, good trend for the game.  Just the problem is bugged items tend to show a fault in the QoL the game presents, and those faults need some touching on, but it's just one thing of many that do

[Mordraug 2,542]

Aaaaah the schadenfreude.... and I'm pretty sure WU isn't to blame for THAT cause of population decline either.

[JudusX 199]

What you call bugged the Rolf called legacy. After that I considered the item part of the game.

[rixk 830]

Lets face it, the status of the fountain pans was at the same "level" as the past xmas presents for example have. People, who were in the game at the time got them.. those, who weren't in game, missed them. If they were removed shortly after they were created, it would've been fine, but after so many years it became a pretty big part of the game. So removal of them is pretty much the same, as Rolf now would start removing past Xmas presents.

 

And what has the removal achieved? It didn't affect those people, who didn't own those items. Their gameplay wasn't improved or anything. It only pissed off those people, who did own them, thats the only thing that change achieved.

[Pashka 707]

This is true.  Their removal hasn't affected anyone that did not have one so they really shouldn't be upset.  They should be overjoyed that we(me) are still asking about the replacement.  They have already replaced the liquid part of it.  Now we just need to get the replacement for the ability to store things somehow without so much decay.  If that is a larger item or if they remove decay for tools and such on deeds, it will benefit the entire game.  Not just the people that had the fountain pans.

[Mith 318]

On 30/6/2016 at 11:47 AM, Budda said:

The talk of replacing them was in terms of the functionality that isn't available by other means (such as painting the largest boats), not the functionality that adds a tardis effect to any container. We'll be looking into some more things to replace their useful (and not broken) functionality before we take them out, but don't expect to keep the ability of expanding any container to stupidly huge storage.

 

It is not the ability to bend the universe that is desired. It is the amount of decay free storage space. remove the decay from inside houses and you are all set.

 

Or you can replace the space holes with a 2x2 wide, 2 house levels tall vault that is also decay free. that would be just as fine. we have just celebrated our 10th anniversary, some of us have accumilated rather large portions of stuff since we went gold, stuff that binds us to wurm. we really dont want to loose that.

[Kegan 3,926]

The reason that Rolf left them in the game at the time was because they served a purpose that he deemed useful and that was to paint boats with. Well he has fixed that now so he only sees them as an unbalanced item so he fixed them so they can be taken out of the game.  I believe there was also an issue that come up with the code so they needed to be removed anyway. That is why they were changed over to a new item while they transitioned them out.

 

He did do it as gently as he could and it did lead to some good changes over all with the bsb decay being removed, the on deed decay..etc 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by Kegan

[enoofu 206]

Believe 3 years one of the Devs did stated they would be removed once their was less people using them

 

He hoped that less people using them would create a lot less anger in the community

 

Personally I believe a lot of the problem is Magic Chest as they seem to small for the cost at 50 euros

Edited July 2, 2016 by enoofu

[Wargasm 1,928]

On 7/1/2016 at 11:36 PM, JudusX said:

 

its hard to dig up forum topics that have been archived or lost when the forum was moved/updated. At this point i don't care, i just want my money back be it a item to replace what im going to lose or silver, and no they did not introduce large capacity storage that stops decay for non bsb items.

 

Rolf did not hold a gun to your head and make you buy it.  Therefore, Rolf owes you nothing.  You could always ask the player that sold it to you for a refund, but I doubt that will go over well.

 

*edit*

 

If you think Rolf owes you money, then sure, I'd like 1.5g for the garlic I bought, thinking that pan filling (SD) would make enchanting easier, when Rolf knew that SD did nothing for enchanting.  I'm pretty sure hundreds of people just like you sank their money into crops and pan filling too.

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by Wargasm

[Mith 318]

7 hours ago, Kegan said:

The reason that Rolf left them in the game at the time was because they served a purpose that he deemed useful and that was to paint boats with. Well he has fixed that now so he only sees them as an unbalanced item so he fixed them so they can be taken out of the game.  I believe there was also an issue that come up with the code so they needed to be removed anyway. That is why they were changed over to a new item while they transitioned them out.

 

He did do it as gently as he could and it did lead to some good changes over all with the bsb decay being removed, the on deed decay..etc 

 

 

Im not sure if you played back when they where made, but what you type is wrong.

 

They where left ingame because there was a GM ruling back then that they where legit, and called legacy items, like water swords, FART weapons and such. being called legacy items, people have gotten used to them, and set up relying on them. not to paint boats but to store large amounts of stuff.

 

Im not sure if he did that as gently as he could, he had poor retrograde promise us there we would get something as substitud, that bandaid that was given us is about to decay away, that is why we are speaking up.

[Ecrir 887]

3 hours ago, Wargasm said:

 

Rolf did not hold a gun to your head and make you buy it.  Therefore, Rolf owes you nothing.  You could always ask the player that sold it to you for a refund, but I doubt that will go over well.

 

*edit*

 

If you think Rolf owes you money, then sure, I'd like 1.5g for the garlic I bought, thinking that pan filling (SD) would make enchanting easier, when Rolf knew that SD did nothing for enchanting.  I'm pretty sure hundreds of people just like you sank their money into crops and pan filling too.

 

 

Yet it's in Rolfs best interest to make sure that the players have trust/faith in the economy, else they won't buy and spend silver. Removing items like these after so many years undermines that trust.  Besides that Rolf is also well known for fixing 'unintended' features of which the player base was never aware that they were unintended/bugged. Thus you will never know what gets removed next.

I know I'll refrain from buying the more expensive items from now on, better to buy cheaper stuf due to the lower risk.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Ecrir

[Wargasm 1,928]

14 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

 

Yet it's in Rolfs best interest to make sure that the players have trust/faith in the economy, else they won't buy and spend silver. Removing items like these after so many years undermines that trust.  Besides that Rolf is also well known for fixing 'unintended' features of which the player base was never aware that they were unintended/bugged. Thus you will never know what gets removed next.

I know I'll refrain from buying the more expensive items from now on, better to buy cheaper stuf due to the lower risk.

 

Selling broken promises and standing behind the justification that it bolsters the economy gives you no excuse to rip people off.  I'm not arguing whether it is right or wrong, I'm arguing AGAINST handing free silver out to players that are just going to sell it, take their money and run.

 

 

[Pashka 707]

 

Enough of the arguing.  This topic is simply to ask about the replacement which we were told was going to be done.  I am curious how far into the plans for that they are.

[Wargasm 1,928]

On 6/30/2016 at 4:47 AM, Budda said:

The talk of replacing them was in terms of the functionality that isn't available by other means (such as painting the largest boats), not the functionality that adds a tardis effect to any container. We'll be looking into some more things to replace their useful (and not broken) functionality before we take them out, but don't expect to keep the ability of expanding any container to stupidly huge storage.

 

You already had your answer on page 1.   An official response, no less.

[Pashka 707]

The response says nothing about anything but the liquid replacement item.  That isn't what I am interested in.

[enoofu 206]

11 minutes ago, Pashka said:

The response says nothing about anything but the liquid replacement item.  That isn't what I am interested in.

What are you interested in, as their is plenty of ways to have goods protected from decay currently including alts and merchants ?

[Pashka 707]

I do know how to use the alts and merchants.  What I want is something to replace the usefulness in storing items that I gained from the fountain pans.   There were several suggestions made at the time the rifts were brought in.  We were told that all of those would be looked into so we could have some sort of replacement for them before the timer ran out.  I simply wanted to bring up that no mention has been made of any replacement for this and the timer was getting short.  I know that it takes a bit of time and sometimes things get overlooked.  I did not want this to be one of the items that is overlooked.

[Wargasm 1,928]

On 6/30/2016 at 4:47 AM, Budda said:

 but don't expect to keep the ability of expanding any container to stupidly huge storage.

 

Here it is a third time, just for those that don't seem to get the drift.

[enoofu 206]

Believe the OP can move this Topic from getting a 1 for a 1 replacement to one

exploring the current mechanics of decay, Magic Chest and so forth which the Devs and most of the player base is interested in

[Pashka 707]

Didn't ask for stupidly huge.  But I am guessing you wish for it or that wouldn't be your interpretation. 

[Ruger 610]

He actually did say they wouldnt be removed from the game and are considered legacy items. Adding to the history of the game and its development. He said this during one the IRC Q&A sessions bout 4-5 years ago around time my daughter was born.

 

Which leads me to believe that these were only changed because some new developer got into position and was like "Yeah these are stupid" (primarily because they didn't have one) which got Rolf to change it or they changed it themselves then brought it to rolf saying "hey I got a fix for those bugged items".

 

Im for one not happy about this change even though I don't really play because we can pretty much say for fact it was one these newer developers or staff members that caused this change to take place who probably wasn't around when he made a promise to the playerbase that they werent going anywhere and they didn't have one. Windows of Oppurtunities and bugged items are and always will be a part of Wurm. I find it odd that this specific one item was targeted for a change. Players have spent large amounts of money over the years on these items because they were assured they weren't going anywhere. I personally have made at least 3,000 euros alone selling fountain pans whenever I had a cache of couple 100 and would sell them out. So GG wurm another failed move on your end, another promise broken, and another terrible excuse for your development reasoning.

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Ruger

[enoofu 206]

3 hours ago, Ruger said:

He actually did say they wouldnt be removed from the game and are considered legacy items. Adding to the history of the game and its development. He said this during one the IRC Q&A sessions bout 4-5 years ago around time my daughter was born.

 

Which leads me to believe that these were only changed because some new developer got into position and was like "Yeah these are stupid" (primarily because they didn't have one) which got Rolf to change it or they changed it themselves then brought it to rolf saying "hey I got a fix for those bugged items".

 

Im for one not happy about this change even though I don't really play because we can pretty much say for fact it was one these newer developers or staff members that caused this change to take place who probably wasn't around when he made a promise to the playerbase that they werent going anywhere and they didn't have one. Windows of Oppurtunities and bugged items are and always will be a part of Wurm. I find it odd that this specific one item was targeted for a change. Players have spent large amounts of money over the years on these items because they were assured they weren't going anywhere. I personally have made at least 3,000 euros alone selling fountain pans whenever I had a cache of couple 100 and would sell them out. So GG wurm another failed move on your end, another promise broken, and another terrible excuse for your development reasoning.

 

 Wasn't a new Developer it was Tich, and it sounded like all his fellow developers wanted it removed since they were bugged items and the development team didn't want to support bugged items

 

Tich did a few posting right after the Rolf infamous posting that the development team wanted these items removed and if it was up to him he would have removed them on day one

 

Tich then follow up be saying that the development team would try to remove the items at a later date once their was less of them in the community

----------------------------------

Apparently I can't find that specific Dev posting which probably went missing with Rolf infamous posting

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Edited July 4, 2016 by enoofu

[Mith 318]

Enoofu, it was Retrograde that shared that bit of news. Not Tich. not that it matters much beside it being Retrograde that took the heat. no matter how many times you say they are bugged items, it does not make them so. They started that way, but after they where declared legit and legacy items, the "bugged item" tag does no longer apply. Hence they have been treated so. now they are on the way out, and we are asking for the replacement item we where promised.