Sign in to follow this  
ClericGunem

Buff the the old gods

Recommended Posts

It is time that the old gods received a long overdue enhancement some buff and some distinction.  There should be some distinctive reason to want to keep the old gods and I am not in favor of nerfing the new gods and that train left the station when CC left saccing corn in as totally fine.  But i believe the old gods should have something that makes them different.

 

To look at it another way the old gods are losing their followers to the lesser upstarts.  The standard "god" lore is that gods need followers or they begin to weaken and now they have direct competition they need to change their divine marketing strategy.  Some suggestions are below and please add others.

 

  • Reduced spell cost for priests of old gods in their domain.  For example, Vyn woa 40 favor, but only priests of 100 faith.
  • Reduced time cost for priests of old gods in their domain.  For example, make Mag strong wall 60 seconds, again only priests of 100 faith
  • Increase chance or strength of old god passives (just a little), i.e. skill gain, keeping items
  • Add some new, useful spells to the old gods...a couple for PvE, a couple PvP, a couple for both
  • Add a mechanic for "dedicating" something to old gods, such as a deed or epic structure and provided a significant bonus to that god in that area (and significant penalty to other gods, and even more significant penalty to lesser gods), for example, dedicate a deed to Vyn and Vynspells all have a higher chance and power (helps long time Vyn priests, but does not make them OP), perhaps 10% greater success or automatic 5% increase in power to any casts.  Or maybe no shatter at a Vyn dedicated shrine say during a certain lunar event.
  • Remove the characteristic nerfs for the old gods (leave it for the lesser god's priests)
  • Increase the sac value for the old god's favored sac

 

 

Edited by ClericGunem
fixed title
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I respect this post, but I think it is a bandaid to a hemorrhaging wound.

 

What needs to happen is that all Gods need to be balanced.  Additionally there should be competitive differences between Gods, old and new.

 

perhaps something as extreme like, enchants should take damage if used and the quality is lower than the enchant.  The damage on the enchant should be reduced by the power of the domain.   

 

Now I know many will HATE this idea, but it gives the Gods a reason for their foothold.  It would also END low QL high CoC tools.  (Something that was never fixed but long needed i believe).

 

Then other things would be that Altars store some amount of power  That gives the bonuses for the area, so simply having an altar in an area is not enough.  It must be tended to some degree.  The basis for this is that anyone who maintains their Altars and domain "pure" would receive higher benefits.  So a Pure Mag domain, would always be higher than a similar domain that has multiple altars.  Maybe even have the domains effect creature spawn.  

 

Also as a plus, if in a pure Mag domain with high power, with 30 faith lava creatures are not hostile to Mag followers?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the above that buffs really would just be a bandaid, however my solution differs slightly:

 

 

Make sets of self balanced spells based on a spirit system.  Certain benefits come with certain spellsets.  New gods get random spirits (which are easier to self balance than individual spells).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This could work.  Maybe remove the 100faith suggestion and lower it to 90+.   Sine the new gods got RNG Overpowered, and nerfing them at this point would just create outrage.  Buffing the old gods could work.   After all, they are the original gods, and should be more powerful then the new gods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see transforming spell to do what the new potions do for tiles .

Make it coat 90 favour and 2 minute or more cast.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-1

 

The old gods are fine.  Mag is still great for PvP, Fo and Vyn are still useful. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Wargasm said:

-1

 

The old gods are fine.  Mag is still great for PvP, Fo and Vyn are still useful. 

Except the number of people who play PVP is small compared to the rest of the community.  in PVE mag is ALMOST useless now, thanks to Nahjo.  Fo, ALMOST useless thanks to Nahjo.  Vyn is ALMOST useless next to Nahjo.  And Lib has lost her advantage thanks to BL priests on PVE servers.
So, we can either nerf the new gods, or buff the old ones.  As it stands right now, the RNG gods screwed the priest balance.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just ease their favor gain, that's all that's needed. There're no "lesser" gods, all of them are equal deities, and although i don't remember where i read this, but the "old" gods were humans (just not players) too before they got the key to heavens or whatever that thing is called.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, zigozag said:

Just ease their favor gain, that's all that's needed. There're no "lesser" gods, all of them are equal deities, and although i don't remember where i read this, but the "old" gods were humans (just not players) too before they got the key to heavens or whatever that thing is called.

 

I did not know that.  I really wish there was more lore behind everything 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me link my old thread here and one particular post too.

 

 

 

On 12.05.2016 at 8:28 AM, zigozag said:

...

 

To all said by @Zekezori would also add that with every additional step of crafting you end up with much lower average ql of the product (which is unimpable in this case) at any skill. I heard that 90+ ropemaking leaves you alone with 60-70ql average cordage even if you make it of 99ql wemp (confirm, anybody?). Don't even want to think about locks. That said, i highly doubt that the original gods' favor gain methods are balanced. Balanced as is have around the same investment/return ratio.

 

The topic, however, addresses the possible way of restoring "balance". Currently, the ways of gaining favor for original WL gods as described above are a pain. And torture. However, honestly, i have never tried any of them. In fact, i would never even make a priest if i had no other choice except these three.

 

I believe, that RNG on every step, the need to grind additional "side-effect" skills, the fact that most priests are alts - all lead us to setup of a few high-skilled priests selling their services to everyone, making RL income off the game, while others can barely afford (money- and timewise) their priests to accomplish their personal needs and needs of their villages.

 

Stomping Nahjo down to the ground would be the easiest way, like Hailene noticed. But is making Nahjo life just as painful as others' the answer you're looking toward?  I believe not. Let me propose a concept:"The methods of getting favor for priests of various deities, if left different, should be evened out in sense of investment/return ratio. But since playing priest as main is almost impossible, the difficulty grindiness of their playstyle should not even get close to that of a main."

- You could start from removing these additional steps. For instance: crops for Nahjo, wood (wood scraps) for Vynora, clay for Fo, iron for Mag.

- You could make those complex items like locks, pieces of cloth, yoyos and even cordage ropes give triple, quadruple favor or any other (higher than 2) amount.

- You could make the amount of favor scale more with QL to make those master lockmiths, toymakers, ropemakers feel better about their immense investments

- You could remove or lower the effect of RNG on some of these additional steps

....

But i don't want to play a game designer here for i'm not even barely close to being one. You have access to a lot of data we, players, can never know of. But please, balancing doesn't have to mean nerfing. Of the radical opinions, you face two sides now, one saying they will never prem a priest again if you break Nahjo, the other saying they stopped preming their priests when Nahjo came out. Which approach is more reasonable? Which party is currently dissatisfied? Is it possible to satisfy them without upsetting the other one? Would it make Wurm and specifically priest life too easy and not blend in with general Wurm ambiance?

 

My answers to these are: Neither. The second one. Yes!  Nope.

 

As a final argument to the original suggestion, after the uselessness of SD was announced, the farmers were not feeling too good. Nahjo is their only relief now.

 

Edited by zigozag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please don't find a reason to justify the characteristic nerf.....

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Please don't find a reason to justify the characteristic nerf.....

 

I honestly think no sane person could justify the characteristic nerf, it is one of the dumbest things i have ever seen in a game. But it comes down to a very clear hate for priests in the game, which makes even less sense as religion is one of the primary mechanics for developing game lore

 

Maybe i should make a video of the 21 straight hours to go from BC 20 to 21 on a priest shooting arrows, since videos seem to work....though they would not watch it i am sure as they ignored the vast thread calling for the removal of the nerf despite a very very large player representation for the removal of the nerfs

 

---

 

Nerfing is not the answer, just going to call out anyone who thinks nerfs are the answer as none of you have ever played a real game where you were the subject of a straight up nerf to a character you spent time developing no matter how seeming easy it was or none of you have even seen a core mechanic nerfed once a large portion of the player base used said mechanic to surpass average players,  Anyone with a high channeling Nahjo has zero room to suggest that the sac is OP unless you are also calling for your channeling to be reset to zero.  Please stop saying it as it, as it is one of the more ignorant things that a gamer can say.  If it had been an exploit then there is no time limit, but overpowered has a time limit and once it is passed that there is no recourse but equality (all sac veggies? which is retarded) or balance (raise others of the category up via defining or differentiating abilities, revamp) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_(game_design)  

 

wurm is missing lore, i prefer to think of the original gods as the True or old gods as it sounds better.  The new or lesser gods sound more like mortals raised up mainly because they have stupid god names, only a matter of time before we have something really bad...i remember an Emperor CloppingChecks in a game, anyone want to see that as a god's name?

 

I want to see the game enriched in lore, i want to see people *want* to play each god for a specific reason (like it was before player gods) i want there to be debates about which god is better that are impossible to agree on.  There was a time when people clearly chose to be Fo, Mag, or Vyn and had distinct, not always well thought out, sometimes naive, but specific reasons they wanted to worship one god.  the new gods all have the same spells, it is only a matter of time before we have a player god with the dream spell list and sac and then what?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

buffing the original gods won't help anything since religion is beyond ###### due to the new gods

shame nothing will be done about it either since I doubt the devs will be able to balance the game around 8 gods + more coming in the future

not that they'll be allowed to balance them anyways since the community screams so much every time there's a discussion about nerfing -newgodhere-

 

lore is also ###### real bad since every new god has 50/50 BL/WL spells

 

 

Edited by Worksock
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

Except the number of people who play PVP is small compared to the rest of the community. 

 

Okay, so if you want to go there, how come Vynora priests are absolute garbage for PvP?  I can think of about 4 spells (3 of which every other religion has) that Vynora brings to the table.  If the PvP community is of trivial size, there's no reason Vyn wouldn't be broken if her PvP spells got buffed.

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

 

in PVE mag is ALMOST useless now, thanks to Nahjo. 

 

I can't disagree.

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

 

Fo, ALMOST useless thanks to Nahjo. 

 

Why?  Just because Nahjo has genesis and courier?  Puh-leez.

 

Nahjo can't charm animals and cannot dig.

Nahjo can't cast wild growth, light of Fo, Charm, Oakshell, Forest Giant Strength, Refresh.  Those are very potent spells.

Nahjo doesn't get the 40 favor bonus that prevents hostile animals from attacking you.

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

Vyn is ALMOST useless next to Nahjo. 

 

Hardly.  Nahjo doesn't have nimble or CoC, which are two good enough reasons for me to stay Vyn.  Paaweelr DOES have both Nimble and BoTD, so if anything I would say that Paaweelr replaces Vyn much more than Nahjo does.

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

And Lib has lost her advantage thanks to BL priests on PVE servers.

 

Libila is still arguably the most OP PvP priest.  I'm going to make the same argument here as I did for Mag above, the only difference being a few useless spells that you wouldn't really use on Freedom anyway:

 

Bloodthirst-  Sorry, LT is far superior and doesn't stack with bloodthirst.

Dark Messenger-  Doesn't work on Freedom if you're a WL player.... useless.

BoTD-  BL freedom priests don't have this... Paaweelr does (and he's WL).

 

11 hours ago, Greyfox said:

So, we can either nerf the new gods, or buff the old ones.  As it stands right now, the RNG gods screwed the priest balance.
 

 

RNG is not the problem.  Turning 4 gods into 8 was the problem.  Your only valid argument in your entire post was that Mag is basically replaced by Nahjo, and I've been saying for awhile that Mag needs to be looked at again in both PvP and PvE.  No other religion warrants change, except I will admit I'm a little disappointed that Paaweelr cannot dig OR mine.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A simple way to settle this is a single data sweep:

 

Total number of premium priests on freedom (excluding chaos)

Total number of each type of priest on freedom (excluding chaos)

Total number of premium priests on chaos

Total number of each type of priest on chaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remove the horribly ill-conceived player gods, or implement them in a way that isn't total unbalanced garbage. Problem solved.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

Remove the horribly ill-conceived player gods, or implement them in a way that isn't total unbalanced garbage. Problem solved.

 

It would be cool if there was some event where the old gods beat down the new gods or some such which somehow differentiated the new gods in some way (and used as an opportunity to revamp the player gods with some completely different attributes and some subtly different spells) i.e. more lore with some interesting changes that enrich the game.  I think it would be lame (as in boring and cheap) to simply remove the player gods and it is too late to nerf without serious player repercussions, imo.  I personally like the idea of player gods and ever expanding pantheon, but still think there should be some sort of hierarchy and the new gods some how back the old gods like the other immortals do.(we cannot worship the other immortals and get nothing from them, maybe that could be added or maybe they could represent some other benefit).and the new gods should be lesser with distinct benefits and balance.  

 

Maybe half the spells, none of the bigspells (e.g. light token and bless, but never coc or genesis), but priests can do a little bit more like build or maybe no restrictions on dig/cut/mine and never champs,  idk, not trying to get trolled, just tossing things out there (please rem i have every priest some batteries too so a lot of my suggestions would negatively affect me a lot more than some of you, these are just "what ifs")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ClericGunem said:

 

It would be cool if there was some event where the old gods beat down the new gods or some such........


Hmm a battle of the gods that players could take part in to sway the results?  Maybe the new goods attempt to completely overthrow the old gods.  Or the old gods get jealous and decide they don't want to share power. 
The winners become powerful gods(Good spells, good buffs) the looser become lesser gods.
Not really sure how players could interact in this though.   Perhapse some kind of challenge, across all servers.  Once a month one of the gods lays out a challenge that lasts 24  hours.   Something like "My followers and priests can do more of action X(Hunting, crafting challenges or something more creative) then any other gods followers and priests can."  Each god gets 1 point for every time one of their followers or priests perform the action(Each follower can perform the action multiple times).   When all the gods have laid out their challenge, the 4 gods with the most points become the most powerful gods.  With no more then 2 BL gods getting in on that list and no less then 1BL god getting on that list.

Just adding to the brainstorming.  :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

better idea is like I've said before, just remove player gods with an option to switch keeping faith, but use what we've learned from them to balance the old gods

 

like give mag things like sac veggies, cure light, web armor (maybe remove aosp and leave for vyn), ability to woodcut too to match lib, ability to bash

fo gets some attack spell or something, make squares give more favor

vyn is pretty much ok, make yoyos give more favor

lib needs stuff like life transfer, ability to cata, aosp to match wl

 

not an entire idea just stuff that I really think could use some balancing with because player gods showed what everyone was lacking and the lore is already bonkers now anyway.  it's kind of a big ish buff for mag and second for lib, but mag really needs it because it's the worst priest choice with all these player gods, and still pretty much the worst choice without them too

 

if its worth anything i have a 100 faith and 60~ faith nahjo priests

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, MrGARY said:

better idea is like I've said before, just remove player gods with an option to switch keeping faith, but use what we've learned from them to balance the old gods

 

like give mag things like sac veggies, cure light, web armor (maybe remove aosp and leave for vyn), ability to woodcut too to match lib, ability to bash

fo gets some attack spell or something, make squares give more favor

vyn is pretty much ok, make yoyos give more favor

lib needs stuff like life transfer, ability to cata, aosp to match wl

 

not an entire idea just stuff that I really think could use some balancing with because player gods showed what everyone was lacking and the lore is already bonkers now anyway.  it's kind of a big ish buff for mag and second for lib, but mag really needs it because it's the worst priest choice with all these player gods, and still pretty much the worst choice without them too

 

if its worth anything i have a 100 faith and 60~ faith nahjo priests

 

 

I see what you are saying, but i liked the differences the old gods had, i do not think it was imbalanced at all, i think it added flavor and purpose to game and each priest more than stood on their own for their purpose.  I would prefer returning to just the old gods mostly as is, with some very slight balancing to the requisite skills for the sacs or fix ropemaking so there is a skill level where making cordage is actually dependable (as opposed to the current high ql wemp+high skill+high ql rope tool = mostly crap cordage).  If the gods/priest are all the same, such that there is no significant reason to choose one over the other, then may as well get rid of all of them and combine the spell list.  

 

In no other game have i played as a true priest and i have almost always detested wizard chars; the "Cleric" in my gamer name (ClericGunem has been my name for 15+ years) had nothing to do with priests until Wurm.  I like the priests/gods in wurm and would like to see more done with them, and not for them to become yet another way for people to drive their business model with and save money by using generic god number 4 to pump out overpriced garbage tools/weapons...

 

If CC does not do something soon and waits until there is an ultimate player god, i.e. all the best spells, best sac, all utility, all enchants, e.g. WL, coc+woa, alchemy sac, light of fo, genesis, strongwall, lt, aosp, nimble, skill passive, chop, dig, pave,...then the "system" will be utterly broken,

 

i am not totally sure anyone cares really, but this was my attempt to get some ideas together, real ideas, not simply "dont care, delete the new gods" (not aimed at you McGARY or anyone), but roll with it, make some changes *fix* the gods and the lore and move forward with the new system

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

have to bear in mind when I talk of balance it's mostly in the pvp aspect since enchanting itself is pretty much ok.  the spell additions like bl spells to wl priests or wl spells to bl priests is a pvp thing, people need web armor, lt, etc without having to deal with crappy proxies and enemy priest alts

 

Quote

If CC does not do something soon and waits until there is an ultimate player god, i.e. all the best spells, best sac, all utility, all enchants, e.g. WL, coc+woa, alchemy sac, light of fo, genesis, strongwall, lt, aosp, nimble, skill passive, chop, dig, pave,...then the "system" will be utterly broken,

 

pretty sure new gods are being checked for balance reasons as they appear (which isn't very often) so I highly doubt that will be allowed to happen now

 

what that doesn't fix though is the saturation of gods that we have already and the potential growth which is why they should be removed, old gods balanced for gameplay and lessen the removal of player gods

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this