About time unique drops were balanced?

[Ekib 183]

1 minute ago, Nadroj said:

 

This doesn't sound like a reason to not want balanced unique drops. it sounds like a reason you don't like how uniques work in general.

the problem is their actual drops pushed some people to hog all the kills for themselves. why give them even better loot and intensive to continue this kill hogging?

[Nadroj 3,554]

Just now, Ekib said:

the problem is their actual drops pushed some people to hog all the kills for themselves. why give them even better loot and intensive to continue this kill hogging?

 

Because i don't believe balancing the games mechanics should be dictated by selfishness vs spite. It should be dictated by actually improving things and balancing them.

[Ekib 183]

the way the dragon hide/scale loot at the current time is each creature got a set weight that is shared by all who took part/ are in local am i correct? this lead from large groups to small crews to hog all the loot. the reason to get those uniques back so we could enjoy loot again, was just turned as an escuse by a handful to keep all the stuff for themselves. when was the last time you heard mention of a public unique killing event? mine was  shortly after xanadu opened iirc. so about 2 years. and a few months after uniques returned. the problem with those hard enough as it is to get loot is an event meant to group up the community is acting against it by creating a bigger chasm between those who got all the great stuff and hog it all and those who dont ( within a few months of uniques returning some people alreayd had like 4 or 5 spells learned already)

as i said. better drops on uniques will be useless since it will always be the same benefiting from it, not the main part of the community. what's the point in making things easier for 1-2% of the population and ignoring all the others. waste of devs time is what i'm saying. better have them add saddle bags to horses or books or fixing rarity rolls, or fixing animals spawns. stuff everyone can benefit from. sorry but this is NOT worth spending time on it for the simple fact that a handful of players keeping the kills for themselves are unhappy it doesnt give them enough loot.

only thing in that entire proposition i'd agree to would be that thing about weaponsmithing potions aparently not helping on weaponsmithing, so sure fix that. other than this its pointless: do a survey and see how many players saw a unique in the last year. pretty sure you wont have many saying they did.

[Nadroj 3,554]

I think you're massively overestimating how long it would take the devs to fix this. As for the rest i've already pointed out that this thread isn't the place for discussing players being selfish and you wanting to be spiteful towards anyone who hunts uniques. It's about balancing what we have, which currently exists in a poorly implemented unbalanced way. One that could be fixed with incredibly little dev effort.

Something being rare in the game isn't a reason for it to be implemented poorly.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Nadroj

[JakeRivers 2,921]

@EkibI see you reside on Xanadu and seem very unhappy with the lack of public unique slayings. So here is a list of unique creatures currently available on your server:

 

 

Pick one, or pick them all, I will help you pen it and help you set up your public event, just contact me ingame or via the forums once you find a suitable target. It will even be up to you to decide if you want to keep the drops private or do it publicly, its all up to you now.

 

+1 to balance unqiues

 

[Ekib 183]

funny how there's never any place to discuss it. everyone knows it, but nobody can say anything.

you want to go back to the topic of the loot? 

On 20/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Nadroj said:

Was just chatting with a friend who's on freedom who pointed out that "the white hatchling has been found" and we both laughed and quipped, "oh the most useless unique in the game"

this leads to beleive unique hunting is something you do on a (monthly?) basis.

On 20/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Nadroj said:

The 5 Hatchlings - Each gives a pathetic....shall we say average of about 0.6kg total of drake hide

nice of you to gather so much. most players dont even know what 0.003 kg of drake looks like.

On 20/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Nadroj said:

The 5 Dragons - I've seen give between 3kg and 10kg of scale (about 6 needed for a set), meaning you could make a whole scale set, which is worth far more than a drake set, from one kill.

see previous quote here?

On 20/06/2016 at 10:23 PM, Nadroj said:

What i would like to see is some of the, already existing, other potions considered to replace the duplicates and frost/acid potions for more variety and at least consider a slightly better chance for sorcery items

i seen those items sell for 60s a charge.. 3 charge a piece so you basicly ask for more 180s items to drop...

On 21/06/2016 at 1:45 AM, Wargasm said:

I'm all for more loot, but the problem is if there's more loot, or more scale, or drake hide whatever... it will further entice the same 10 people that find, pen and kill the uniques to host private fights all the time.

and as wargasm explained here THIS is the root of the problem, so according to your post wher eyou suggest that you kill and hunt those on a regular basis and get loot. 

On 21/06/2016 at 1:45 AM, Wargasm said:

 

Every non-dragon, non drake unique on Freedom has private loot....

as this is pointing out: you have to be in the hunter's special group to get anything. 

 

thus i have to ask again: why bother changing something that will benefit less than 1% of the gaming population?

-yes, the weaponsmithing potion only working to subskills sounds like an issue.

-to answer your suggestion to get more / better loot is that this loot should be given randomly to people in local: like the blood, why would a magical item from valrei only apear on the corpse after all? perhaps it might stop the same few people hogging all for themselves. but then they would be he only ones in local.

-if the devs really want to changesomething on the uniques i wished they added that uniques cant follow people underground (also a dragon entering a small mineshaft... doubtful) so no more cave penning them and hogging the finds. perhaps make them 'teleport' up to the surface by collapsing the mines they are in in a 10 tiles radius then. massive ground collapse/escape. it might be hurt but it would be out. (adding a beacon in the sky when escaping as well?)

-changing the potions to others more useful potions, why not., but again the problem isnt the loot its the percentage of the players who can get access to them that's the issue.

 

those where supposed to be community events, instead they are all kept by a few individuals spoiling the game for everyone else in search of riches, and who, from the looks of it, also have the guts to whine to everyone they arent getting enough.

this is insulting!

this is telling someone you are starving because your caviar serving isnt big enough. 

 

so yea i want to see changes in the uniques, but its not JUST the devs who need to see about it, so you say this isnt part of the thread but it is: you want to see a change in the uniques' loot and behavior. well so does pretty much everyone else. pretty sure they would like to see a unique, be able to take part in those events again: i remember them when they started a bit over 2 years ago. it was FUN with everyone around. then they got turned to private events only and hell began

so this might sound like ranting, and in a way it might be. but i am fed up of always the same few keeping all the fun and complaining they arent getting enough fun to other players who are shunned from joining in.

 

 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

3 minutes ago, Ekib said:

those where supposed to be community events, instead they are all kept by a few individuals spoiling the game for everyone else in search of riches, and who, from the looks of it, also have the guts to whine to everyone they arent getting enough.

this is insulting!

this is telling someone you are starving because your caviar serving isnt big enough. 

 

No one is spoiling anything for anyone, you can go find a unique anytime you want, this is just the uniques currently on xanadu, there is more on indy and one or two of the other smaller servers.

 

Spoiler

 

There is no basis for your demands of these hunts being public when you spend zero effort into hosting your own event.

[Ekib 183]

28 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

 

There is no basis for your demands of these hunts being public when you spend zero effort into hosting your own event.

how do you know i never did?

 

and the flaw in your logic is those are alive on server but could be already penned and impossible to access. 

 

also hosting a hunt is disgressing from the topic.

this is about balancing loot not organising a hunt

[Nadroj 3,554]

It seems like your desire to be spiteful towards anyone who puts the effort into penning uniques is making it difficult to stick to the topic at hand. So i'll type nice and clearly and hopefully we can understand each other.

 

This thread is about whether or not the current unique drops are balanced in the quantities and types that they drop and possibly also the rate for tomes, though i consider that less important personally.

This thread is not about whether the current looting system works well in distributing the loot, nor is it about whether players are too selfish with uniques.

 

It is certainly not about suggesting changes to unique movements, penning and event organisation. 

 

If you wish to make threads about those subject you are most welcome and i will gladly join the discussion and possibly agree with you on a number of points.

 

On the subject at hand I will continue to believe that it is poor implementation to have dragons and hatchlings sharing blood types, two hatchlings having worthless bloods and drakes dropping so incredibly little hide.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Sorry Nad for getting off topic here.

[Etherdrifter 2,512]

More useful bloods => More fun

 

More hide per drake=> more hide on the market => price of hide drops => hunts become less profitable => less reason to keep the hunts private

 

+1 from me; this sort of fix can only benefit the player base as a whole

Edited November 21, 2017 by Etherdrifter
replaced scale with hide, misread OP

[Ekib 183]

nice theory but the new hide drops = more on market = more armors available argument was said when uniques returned to those who where against it. and see how it turned out. great idea on paper, but in practice prices for drake and scale will not drop and everyone knows it. and the more drops = the more reason for small hunters group to keep it all for themselves. 

better have the devs focused on something that all playerbase can benefit from instead of only a handful. still -1 sadly

 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

1 hour ago, Ekib said:

nice theory but the new hide drops = more on market = more armors available argument was said when uniques returned to those who where against it. and see how it turned out. great idea on paper, but in practice prices for drake and scale will not drop and everyone knows it. and the more drops = the more reason for small hunters group to keep it all for themselves. 

better have the devs focused on something that all playerbase can benefit from instead of only a handful. still -1 sadly

 

 

Edit, because I am too lazy to track down and hold my own unique kills, no one else should have it either!

[Roccandil 959]

I don't inherently like the idea of a small group of monster-hunters hogging all the loot, but on the other hand, it's emergent guild-like behavior, which is very realistic (and even immersive). I'm not sure I expect the developers to make that impossible, or even be able to make it impossible without destroying the game.

[Crackmore_ 26]

On 11/20/2017 at 6:23 PM, Ekib said:

those where supposed to be community events, instead they are all kept by a few individuals spoiling the game for everyone else in search of riches, and who, from the looks of it, also have the guts to whine to everyone they arent getting enough.

this is insulting!

this is telling someone you are starving because your caviar serving isnt big enough. 

 

so yea i want to see changes in the uniques, but its not JUST the devs who need to see about it, so you say this isnt part of the thread but it is: you want to see a change in the uniques' loot and behavior. well so does pretty much everyone else. pretty sure they would like to see a unique, be able to take part in those events again: i remember them when they started a bit over 2 years ago. it was FUN with everyone around. then they got turned to private events only and hell began

so this might sound like ranting, and in a way it might be. but i am fed up of always the same few keeping all the fun and complaining they arent getting enough fun to other players who are shunned from joining in.

+1

 

While i agree the drops for drake hide sounds pretty bad, the extend that everyone here gets shamed as some jealous slacker if they don;t just set up a party and immediately succeed in finding a unique kinda strengthens the idea that hunting is a 1~2% elite that doesn't have a job or the like to limit their time to search for the uniques that haven't been penned away somewhere out of reach because some smug douche decided it would be cool to have a dragon living in the cave in his backyard

 

i admit that i do not have the skills to properly participate in a hunt but besides from having a relatively fresh character the main reason for that is that hunts are so impossible to get into as a fun gathering just for the sake of attending a exciting community event it's not worth my time to focus on fighting just to face the same issues

Edited November 23, 2017 by Crackmore_

[Nadroj 3,554]

You realise him saying it's 1% of people is a number he just made up to exxagerate the issue which FOR THE 3RD TIME NOW. Is not the subject under debate in this thread. The debate is simple...are the drops as they currently exist balanced?

Do you believe it is balanced and fair to have 2 potions that do nothing?

Do you believe it is balanced and fair to have pairs of uniques that drop the same potion instead of a unique one each?
Do you think that dragons should drop a whole scale set, while drakes need several kills for one even though drake is half the total created weight of scale?

Do you think tomes should have a 1% drop rate on all forms of dragons?

Do you think its balanced that the best tome rate AND best potions are on humanoids while dragons get 1% rate and really poor potions/shared potions and 2 that don't work?

 

If you want to talk about how players approach unique slaying Or changes to how they can be penned or located  make a different thread about it please. I'll gladly weigh in on those subjects in a place where they are relevant.

 

Let me put it this way. Would all the above questions all sound totally fair and balanced and need no change at all, if you were the one who owned and organised every single slaying every time? If you personally had complete control over how the uniques are found, penned, slayed and loot distributed, would this all seem balanced to you?

Edited November 23, 2017 by Nadroj

[Crackmore_ 26]

1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

You realize him saying it's 1% of people is a number he just made up to exxagerate exagerate the issue which FOR THE 3RD TIME NOW. Is not the subject under debate in this thread. The debate is simple...are the drops as they currently exist balanced?

 

Quote

Do you think that dragons should drop a whole scale set, while drakes need several kills for one even though drake is half the total created weight of scale?

 

Quote

If you want to talk about how players approach unique slaying Or changes to how they can be penned or located  make a different thread about it please. I'll gladly weigh in on those subjects in a place where they are relevant.

I think you are missing the point that balancing of drop rates is directly related to how accessible the hunts are: if a dragon dropped enough materials for 2 sets of armor but could only be killed once per year it would boil down to the same rarity of dropping enough for 0.33 sets of armor and being killed every 2 months, the difference being in how big portions per slaying are and thus if a single group would get those 2 armors or if 1-6 groups would get fractions of those 2 sets over the same time-span and need to buy or trade for the rest.

 

1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

Do you believe it is balanced and fair to have 2 potions that do nothing?

Do you believe it is balanced and fair to have pairs of uniques that drop the same potion instead of a unique one each?

 

Quote

Do you think its balanced that the best tome rate AND best potions are on humanoids while dragones dragons get 1% rate and really poor potions?

 

If you want to talk about how players approach unique slaying Or changes to how they can be penned or located  make a different thread about it please. I'll gladly weigh in on those subjects in a place where they are relevant.

I do agree that potions being useless is kind of a letdown, and it would be a great solution to switch those and the duplicate potions out for skill potions both changing the argument of "Which dragons are worthless" into "Which skills are the least worth getting the potion for" and increasing the variety of skills that have potions available for them would be good;But in my opinion when 2 problems are equally important, the priority in fixing them should be given to the problem that affects a larger amount of people, which will once again bring us off-topic into the problem of accessibility of hunts being an issue.

 

1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

Do you think tomes should have a 1% drop rate on all forms of dragons?

Don't really have an opinion on this one, only learned about them recently and while i consider them pretty cool i do not consider myself knowledgeable enough on sorcery to make a proper argument

 

One other thing about the drops that no one has mentioned yet is the meat, i am curious about this because there seems to be no market for it at all  while everyone looses their ###### over the other drops, and i can understand that because meat in general is so easy to get that it's not worth bringing it up in trade but for the sake of cooking recipes requiring specific meat types it kinda bothers me but i have been  afraid to put a serious effort into finding a seller because of the reasonable chance to find out it's out of my budget because slayings are mostly locked of to people fully aware that the drops are rare enough to drive prices up.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Crackmore_

[Grumpled 138]

I think you are missing the point that at the very basic level of how the game is coded, hunts and uniques are potentially available to all and any player.

Anything else is purely a result of playerbase society and not what the devs are being asked to tweak here. That can be resolved and discussed elsewhere, as stated I don't know how many times now.

 

The question is 'are unique drops balanced across the range of uniques?', NOT 'does every player have easy access to any of the items dropped?'

 

Also, if you are going to resort to correcting spelling to try and point score in an argument, make sure your 'corrections' are correct themselves.

 

 

Anyway, +1 to re-balancing

Edited November 23, 2017 by Grumpled
forgotted to +1

[Nadroj 3,554]

1 hour ago, Nadroj said:

Let me put it this way. Would all the above questions all sound totally fair and balanced and need no change at all, if you were the one who owned and organised every single slaying every time? If you personally had complete control over how the uniques are found, penned, slayed and loot distributed, would this all seem balanced to you?

 

This is the part i'd most like answered. Not spelling corrections. 

 

The meat and "alchemy bits" basically have zero value at the moment, dragons are the only ones that drop a unique kind of meat and it has no real special properties. It's something that would be nice to see different as well as more use for the skulls but i'd rather if we all just stuck to the subject i actually started the thread about, i'd love that in fact.

 

Side note: America is not the only country in the world, where i'm from many words have the letter s in them instead of a z. The more you know.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Nadroj