Sindusk

[WU] Datamining

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Hi Sindusk, I want to thank you for the invaluable insight your work has made. Thank you very much.

 

The question keeps coming up regarding rarity effects on weapons and armors . Would it be possible to shed some light on that?

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demise spells

 

I'd like to know what it does because if it's just chance to hit, I'd go with self healers demise because of trolls. But if it makes crits more likely that will increase damage done. More damage will give more weapon skill so I'd go with animal demise to skill up faster.

 

I looked in WU code and arrived at these assessment. Are they right?

 

Regenerators: lady of the lake, troll, troll king, all rift creatures but templateOne. 18 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Humans: zombie, Lady of the lake, tower guard, deed guards, bartender, human. 17 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Animals: hell hound, worg, hell horse, king cobra, anaconda, pig, lava spider, fog spider, spider, hyena, blue whale, seal, seal cub, boar, gorilla, cat, bug, tortoise, crab, lion, rat, unicorn, black bear, brown bear, easterbunny, croc, dog, wolf, chicken, hen, pheasant, rooster, deer, foal, horse, bison, bull, calf, cow, lamb, sheep, ram, rift one. 3 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Dragon: all the colors of dragon and drake. 19 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

 

And...

It seems to me that the bonus helps to improve both your chance to hit and the chance to get a critical. I believe its one dice roll for both and the unlikely higher rolls end up as criticals.

 

 

 

 

 

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I've been getting varying answers from this question and it's been bugging me for quite some time.

 

Does rarity affect a bow? How?

And how much does quality affect the damage?

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Yikes. I am taking a break from Wurm, but I still care enough to check this thread and answer what I can from time to time when I can. I have some time to dump on my hands, so here we go. The latest questions:

On 9/11/2016 at 7:51 PM, Faetyl said:

Hi Sindusk, I want to thank you for the invaluable insight your work has made. Thank you very much.

 

The question keeps coming up regarding rarity effects on weapons and armors . Would it be possible to shed some light on that?

Rarity on weapons increases critical strike chance by 10% (rare), 30% (supreme), and 50% (fantastic). This is a multiplier for the base crit chance, not added to the amount. So for example, a huge axe has a 1.00% crit chance (look at the spreadsheet in the OP) by default. With a rare huge axe, that increases by 10% to 1.1% chance to crit. With a fantastic huge axe, it would increase to 1.5% chance to crit. Critical strikes are important because they bypass hit checks and do double damage. Basically, if you roll a crit, your attack lands, regardless of shield blocks or parries.

 

Rarity on armour is a bit similar. It reduces remaining damage done (after the base multiplication is done to reduce damage from armour type) by 3% (rare), 6% (supreme), or 9% (fantastic). So if you are wearing 100QL steel plate, you take 30% damage. With a rare piece, you take 30% * 0.97 = 29.1% damage. With a fantastic piece, you would take 30% * 0.91 = 27.3% total damage. A bit difficult to explain properly but hopefully that all makes sense.

 

On 9/12/2016 at 5:57 PM, MootRed said:

@SinduskCan you look into the requirements for personal goals of shadow mage, magician, and archmage?

I'm so sad my external hard drive died. I had a document there which had EVERYTHING for this which I would have loved to share. All of the requirements and possibilities for each of those titles. Basically, it revolves around the sorcery system. There are 3 types of sorceries: red, black, and white. Off the top of my head, most fell in the category of white. The 3 that I remember being black were Blood of Angels, Libram of the Night, and Black Tome.

 

Essentially, there's a bunch of conditions which give you a special title for having a specific combination of certain colors of sorceries, but only if you have 2 or more of a single kind. So having a red, black, and white sorcery will give no special titles. For example, having 2 white sorceries gives you Mage. Having 3 white sorceries gives you Wizard. Having 9 or more sorceries total gives you Archmage. I believe the Shadow Mage requires 2 black sorceries. Death Knight is 3 black sorceries if I recall correctly. Again, I don't have my sheet for this, trying to recall it off the top of my head. A good data miner should be able to figure out the rest.

 

On 9/15/2016 at 2:47 AM, joedobo said:

demise spells

 

I'd like to know what it does because if it's just chance to hit, I'd go with self healers demise because of trolls. But if it makes crits more likely that will increase damage done. More damage will give more weapon skill so I'd go with animal demise to skill up faster.

 

I looked in WU code and arrived at these assessment. Are they right?

 

Regenerators: lady of the lake, troll, troll king, all rift creatures but templateOne. 18 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Humans: zombie, Lady of the lake, tower guard, deed guards, bartender, human. 17 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Animals: hell hound, worg, hell horse, king cobra, anaconda, pig, lava spider, fog spider, spider, hyena, blue whale, seal, seal cub, boar, gorilla, cat, bug, tortoise, crab, lion, rat, unicorn, black bear, brown bear, easterbunny, croc, dog, wolf, chicken, hen, pheasant, rooster, deer, foal, horse, bison, bull, calf, cow, lamb, sheep, ram, rift one. 3 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

Dragon: all the colors of dragon and drake. 19 in types for creatureTemplateCreator.

 

And...

It seems to me that the bonus helps to improve both your chance to hit and the chance to get a critical. I believe its one dice roll for both and the unlikely higher rolls end up as criticals.

 

 

 

 

 

Demises are kind of interesting to me. When I was looking through the code I couldn't for the life of me find the area where demises were countered by things like Vynora's Protection or Libila's Shielding. However, I do recall demises giving a bonus to hit chance against certain types of enemies, and your list is almost definitely correct. As for critical chance, I believe it was hinted at somewhere but I didn't ever finish my full assessment of the combat system. It's quite likely that demise gives higher crit chance.

 

On 9/21/2016 at 5:59 AM, Kswords said:

I've been getting varying answers from this question and it's been bugging me for quite some time.

 

Does rarity affect a bow? How?

And how much does quality affect the damage?

Rarity on bows is about equivalent to comparing a willow bow to a different type. Willow gives -5 to difficulty (basically +5 to the "Archery" skill), and so do rares. However, rares also increase damage by a certain amount as well. I can't recall it perfectly, but I think it's 1% (rare), 3% (supreme), and 5% (fantastic). These could be totally wrong but I simply don't have the code infront of me and I'm just going with my first thoughts. At the end of the day, comparing a rare birchwood bow to a normal willow bow would give roughly the same results. That makes a rare willow bow equivalent to a supreme lemonwood, or a supreme willow equivalent to a fantastic cedar bow. Fantastic willow bows are far and away the best in the game, giving a total of -20 to difficulty, making basically any shot quite trivial for a skilled archer.

 

I know it applies to melee weapons, and I think it applies to bows as well: quality on weapons is completely scalar. A 20QL bow does half damage of what a 40QL, which does half of a 80QL, for example. That means the difference between an 80QL bow and a 90QL bow is 8/9, or ~88% of what the 90QL bow would do. When flipped, the 90QL bow does 9/8 of the damage of an 80QL, or 12.5% more. You can do this type of math for comparison between any set of bows pretty easily.

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Thanks for the answer. Very much appreciated.

Another came up when you have time. :)

 

Per this post http://www.wurmonline.com/2014/09/11/priest-updates-decorative-items/

"Your most solid piece of armour now limits your ability to cast combat spells and perform archery"

Many in game are stating the armor also reduces enchant casting "non-combat spells". And are therefore removing all their armor while enchanting items.

 

Is this true?

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4 hours ago, Faetyl said:

Thanks for the answer. Very much appreciated.

Another came up when you have time. :)

 

Per this post http://www.wurmonline.com/2014/09/11/priest-updates-decorative-items/

"Your most solid piece of armour now limits your ability to cast combat spells and perform archery"

Many in game are stating the armor also reduces enchant casting "non-combat spells". And are therefore removing all their armor while enchanting items.

 

Is this true?

I want to say yes, but I can't be sure. If I recall correctly I think it only affects bonus. If you have 70+ bonus in your cast, you'll cap out and the armour wont effect it. As to whether or not it affects non-combat spells, I want to heavily lean towards yes. It's been a while since I've done datamining but I do not recall the armour portion of the code being inside the combat spell area. If only I had my source code still. :(

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I did some testing with armor while I was grinding (light token) and my conclusion was it does have an effect. I was trying to make a very easy spell more difficult and the skill gain result suggested plate helped. Given how PC RNG operate, it's not conclusive, but 1100 casts should be enough to overcome most streaks.

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20 hours ago, Sindusk said:

I want to say yes, but I can't be sure. If I recall correctly I think it only affects bonus. If you have 70+ bonus in your cast, you'll cap out and the armour wont effect it. As to whether or not it affects non-combat spells, I want to heavily lean towards yes. It's been a while since I've done datamining but I do not recall the armour portion of the code being inside the combat spell area. If only I had my source code still. :(

 

10 hours ago, Kelody said:

I did some testing with armor while I was grinding (light token) and my conclusion was it does have an effect. I was trying to make a very easy spell more difficult and the skill gain result suggested plate helped. Given how PC RNG operate, it's not conclusive, but 1100 casts should be enough to overcome most streaks.

 

Thank you both. That makes sense now. I have a 65 faith bonus on deed and maxed the enchanting bonus out to 30% so that's probably why I wasn't seeing a difference when "eyeball testing".

I looked through the code and saw where spells were tracked as "offensive = true" etc, and was hoping they differentiated between combat spells that way. I'm sure I was asking for too much there. :D 

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Hi, I'd like to ask, what are the target locations for each special move, and how is the damage calculation different for them? Also, how is stun duration calculated. How long do CR debuffs from special moves last?

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On 9/26/2016 at 6:27 PM, Faetyl said:

 

 

Thank you both. That makes sense now. I have a 65 faith bonus on deed and maxed the enchanting bonus out to 30% so that's probably why I wasn't seeing a difference when "eyeball testing".

I looked through the code and saw where spells were tracked as "offensive = true" etc, and was hoping they differentiated between combat spells that way. I'm sure I was asking for too much there. :D 

 

With the new altar rules, it's not hard to create areas without the faith bonus. Enchanting bonus can easily be avoided stepping off deed.

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Hello @Sindusk , is there any chance you found what is CR/damage/whatever decrease or modifier for tamed/dominated creatures?

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10 hours ago, zigozag said:

Hello @Sindusk , is there any chance you found what is CR/damage/whatever decrease or modifier for tamed/dominated creatures?

I never found any evidence to support that they were ever penalized, honestly. I remember that zombified uniques were penalized heavily (30% of their total stats or so, I believe). Also, resurrecting humans would give 70% of their skill level. However, I did not find evidence of normally resurrected, tamed, or dominated creatures obtaining a combat penalty of any kind. I could definitely be wrong, but I just haven't seen it.

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Can you figure out what the 'soul stealer necklace, seryll' necklace does?

Or more specifically the "Skill efficiency bonus" it gives?

 

I was told that it does something but I've not seen the power or quality go down on it.

[03:57:52] <Retrograde> as far as I know it increases skillgain in a random skill

[03:57:56] <Retrograde> but I have no further info on that

 

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On 10/10/2016 at 2:23 PM, Sindusk said:

I never found any evidence to support that they were ever penalized, honestly. I remember that zombified uniques were penalized heavily (30% of their total stats or so, I believe). Also, resurrecting humans would give 70% of their skill level. However, I did not find evidence of normally resurrected, tamed, or dominated creatures obtaining a combat penalty of any kind. I could definitely be wrong, but I just haven't seen it.

 

They're penalized for being dominated/tamed.

 

From Creature.getBaseCombatRating():

if (this.getLoyalty() > 0.0f) {
     return (this.isReborn() ? 0.7f : 0.5f) * this.template.getBaseCombatRating() * this.status.getBattleRatingTypeModifier();
}

 

So, pets get a pretty big hit, zombified things slightly less so.

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On 10/10/2016 at 2:23 PM, Sindusk said:

I never found any evidence to support that they were ever penalized, honestly. I remember that zombified uniques were penalized heavily (30% of their total stats or so, I believe). Also, resurrecting humans would give 70% of their skill level. However, I did not find evidence of normally resurrected, tamed, or dominated creatures obtaining a combat penalty of any kind. I could definitely be wrong, but I just haven't seen it.

 

They're penalized for being dominated/tamed.

 

From Creature.getBaseCombatRating():

if (this.getLoyalty() > 0.0f) {
     return (this.isReborn() ? 0.7f : 0.5f) * this.template.getBaseCombatRating() * this.status.getBattleRatingTypeModifier();
}

 

So, pets get a pretty big hit to CR, zombified things slightly less so.

 

Incidentally, this is (probably?) why already-tamed pets are a bit easier to keep on taming than ones that are not yet tame.

Edited by Ostentatio

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It won't let me edit my post, but I wanted to add that the above is probably why already-tamed creatures are easier to keep taming.

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On 11/7/2016 at 7:06 AM, Kswords said:

Can you figure out what the 'soul stealer necklace, seryll' necklace does?

Or more specifically the "Skill efficiency bonus" it gives?

 

I was told that it does something but I've not seen the power or quality go down on it.

[03:57:52] <Retrograde> as far as I know it increases skillgain in a random skill

[03:57:56] <Retrograde> but I have no further info on that

 

Sadly it's bugged. Only fight skill would be affected under normal circumstances, but the actual enchant itself is bugged in the current Wurm Unlimited release. Only "Skill max" would actually have an effect. The reason being is because of this series of statements made across multiple class files:

if ((skillGained = percentSkillGained * lMod * 0.25 * (double)ItemBonus.getKillEfficiencyBonus(p2)) > 0.0) {

The above calls the following statement:

    public static final float getKillEfficiencyBonus(Creature creature) {
        return 1.0f + ItemBonus.getBonus(creature.getWurmId(), SpellEffectsEnum.ITEM_NECKLACE_SKILLMAX.getTypeId(), 1.0f);
    }

Which refers to SKILLMAX which I assume was meant to be SKILLEFF because this is the real SKILLMAX call:

    public static final float getImproveSkillMaxBonus(Creature creature) {
        return 1.0f + ItemBonus.getBonus(creature.getWurmId(), SpellEffectsEnum.ITEM_NECKLACE_SKILLMAX.getTypeId());
    }

So instead of pointing to the correct enum...

ITEM_NECKLACE_SKILLEFF(-12335387, "Skill efficiency", 135, 10, 0, false),

It's pointing to the one that already has a different effect... and therefore doubles up the usefulness of it.

ITEM_NECKLACE_SKILLMAX(-12335386, "Item improvement skill max", 136, 10, 0, false),

It's a lot of code, I know, but basically what it means in the end is that "Skill Efficiency" is bugged, and the "Item improvement skill max" does what it's supposed to do... along with what "Item improvement skill max" is supposed to do. Not sure if this is fixed in the Wurm Online code. Wurm Unlimited players do not get access to most rift items, this included.

 

On 11/8/2016 at 0:24 PM, Ostentatio said:

 

They're penalized for being dominated/tamed.

 

From Creature.getBaseCombatRating():

 


if (this.getLoyalty() > 0.0f) {
     return (this.isReborn() ? 0.7f : 0.5f) * this.template.getBaseCombatRating() * this.status.getBattleRatingTypeModifier();
}

 

 

So, pets get a pretty big hit, zombified things slightly less so.

Good catch. Looks like raised humans and uniques get their stats nuked extremely hard then, because in Rebirth.raise() they also take a hit like I mentioned:

                                            try {
                                                Skill[] cskills;
                                                skills.load();
                                                cret.getSkills().delete();
                                                cret.getSkills().clone(skills.getSkills());
                                                for (Skill cSkill : cskills = cret.getSkills().getSkills()) {
                                                    if (cSkill.getNumber() == 10052) {
                                                        cSkill.setKnowledge(Math.min(70.0, cSkill.knowledge * 0.7), false);
                                                        continue;
                                                    }
                                                    cSkill.setKnowledge(Math.min(40.0, cSkill.knowledge * 0.7), false);
                                                }
                                                cret.getSkills().save();
                                                break block47;
                                            }

Uniques get the following:

                                        try {
                                            Skill[] skills;
                                            for (Skill lSkill : skills = cret.getSkills().getSkills()) {
                                                if (lSkill.getNumber() == 10052) {
                                                    lSkill.setKnowledge(lSkill.knowledge * 0.4000000059604645, false);
                                                    continue;
                                                }
                                                lSkill.setKnowledge(lSkill.knowledge * 0.20000000298023224, false);
                                            }
                                        }
Edited by Sindusk

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I am told by someone who has looked through the code, that there is a "secret" speed boost for the jet/ebony colored horses. I will leave off their name as I did not ask if I could post their comments with name attached,  but

 

 
[14:18:03] XXXX I would've passed it off as a rumor, but my own experience would suggest it's plausible
[14:18:03] XXXX I have no idea where such a thing would reside in code, it's an absolute mess

[14:30:09] XXXX ...this code is a goddamn MESS
[14:30:29] XXXX   but it looks like ebony gets an addition 0.025 added to the speed mod

[14:33:31] XXXX   explanations lol..  the five speed traits give 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.2, and 0.3..  just not sure which is which
[14:34:54] XXXX  a rarity level on a horseshoe gives 0.03 to the same value, I think
[14:35:08] XXXX  it's really hard to say with any certainty when it comes to this mess but
[14:35:17] XXXX  there is definitely a speed boost related to a horse being ebony.
[14:35:21] XXXX  that I can confirm.

 

 

1) Can you also confirm this, and perhaps add some context for how noticeable the speed boost is, perhaps especially for a team of four on a wagon. 

 

2) Can you check also the other two "rare" new horses, BloodBay and Piebald-Pinto, to see whether they too have anything similar or any kind of unique bonus of their own?

 

 

THANKS MUCH!!

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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This is beeing said in WO also, and only for the black.

 

PS. Good to see you in forums Brash, somehow I remembered you yesterday! (because of lamps from ceilings) DS.

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2 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I am told by someone who has looked through the code, that there is a "secret" speed boost for the jet/ebony colored horses. I will leave off their name as I did not ask if I could post their comments with name attached,  but

 

 
[14:18:03] XXXX I would've passed it off as a rumor, but my own experience would suggest it's plausible
[14:18:03] XXXX I have no idea where such a thing would reside in code, it's an absolute mess

[14:30:09] XXXX ...this code is a goddamn MESS
[14:30:29] XXXX   but it looks like ebony gets an addition 0.025 added to the speed mod

[14:33:31] XXXX   explanations lol..  the five speed traits give 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.2, and 0.3..  just not sure which is which
[14:34:54] XXXX  a rarity level on a horseshoe gives 0.03 to the same value, I think
[14:35:08] XXXX  it's really hard to say with any certainty when it comes to this mess but
[14:35:17] XXXX  there is definitely a speed boost related to a horse being ebony.
[14:35:21] XXXX  that I can confirm.

 

 

1) Can you also confirm this, and perhaps add some context for how noticeable the speed boost is, perhaps especially for a team of four on a wagon. 

 

2) Can you check also the other two "rare" new horses, BloodBay and Piebald-Pinto, to see whether they too have anything similar or any kind of unique bonus of their own?

 

 

THANKS MUCH!!

 

 

1) Can confirm that the code indicates this for ebony black horses. That person is correct, the speed bonus will be slightly less than making a regular horse shoe rare. Just like the other speed bonuses, it takes place intermittently so it won't always be active.

2) I can't find any reference to these others having any bonus.

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On 16/6/2016 at 2:07 PM, Sindusk said:
  • hen you take an action in the rarity window, you get a "Moment of Inspiration" drumroll, which goes down this list:
    • If you are improving, and damage the item, nothing happens.
    • If you are improving, and you get a skillgain tick (this is rarer on higher quality items, at least in WU), you succeed.
    • If you are creating an item, you succeed.
    • In most other actions, you will succeed.
  • Upon success, the following occurs:
    • You have a 1/1000 chance of making the item fantastic. If that fails,
    • You have a 1/100 chance of making the item supreme. If that fails,
    • The item is rare. Exception when improving, it appears to roll a 50/50 chance as to whether to make the item rare in the end. This is unconfirmed.

Can't be sure for fantastic as i never got one.

But supreme chance definitively isn't 1/100

I have created many rare and supreme items, and i'd say the chance of supreme should be between 10 and 15%, compared to rares. maybe even 20% when improving.

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I have some question:

 

Quote

Flanking applies to where you are in relation to the mount the player is on, if they are mounted. Attacking a player from behind their horse will give full flank bonus, even if the player is looking at you.)

Is this the same with boats?

 

Quote

"On PvP server & leading more than 1 creature: -10 CR "

When i riding a horse, its count as leading or not? So when i ride a horse and leading another horse, at the same time, i have no penalty?

 

 

On 16.6.2016 at 0:33 PM, Sindusk said:

Finally, the parry bonus. It can equate to 0.8, 0.9, or 1. It depends on where you and your opponent are targeting. If they are in defensive targeting (the little shield buttons) in the direction you are swinging, then it is 0.8. If they are targeting the other side (horizontally) of the body compared to where you are swinging (for example they are upper right, you are upper left; or you are middle left, and they are middle right), it resolves to 0.9. In all other cases, it resolves to 1.0.

 

That means, i have always "defensive targeting" in the direction where my enemie is aiming at?

 

 

Last question :D what means that?:

Open To Attack (Combat Mistake): 0.7*CR
Prone/Sprawling (Combat Effect): 0.5*CR

 

Big thx for all your work

Edited by Rocky

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12 hours ago, Brash_Endeavors said:

I am told by someone who has looked through the code, that there is a "secret" speed boost for the jet/ebony colored horses. I will leave off their name as I did not ask if I could post their comments with name attached,  but

 

 
[14:18:03] XXXX I would've passed it off as a rumor, but my own experience would suggest it's plausible
[14:18:03] XXXX I have no idea where such a thing would reside in code, it's an absolute mess

[14:30:09] XXXX ...this code is a goddamn MESS
[14:30:29] XXXX   but it looks like ebony gets an addition 0.025 added to the speed mod

[14:33:31] XXXX   explanations lol..  the five speed traits give 0.1, 0.1, 0.1, 0.2, and 0.3..  just not sure which is which
[14:34:54] XXXX  a rarity level on a horseshoe gives 0.03 to the same value, I think
[14:35:08] XXXX  it's really hard to say with any certainty when it comes to this mess but
[14:35:17] XXXX  there is definitely a speed boost related to a horse being ebony.
[14:35:21] XXXX  that I can confirm.

 

 

1) Can you also confirm this, and perhaps add some context for how noticeable the speed boost is, perhaps especially for a team of four on a wagon. 

 

2) Can you check also the other two "rare" new horses, BloodBay and Piebald-Pinto, to see whether they too have anything similar or any kind of unique bonus of their own?

 

 

THANKS MUCH!!

 

 

 

I did notice, when looking at speed trait effects, that ebony/jet black horses do in fact have a minor speed boost as you suggest. It checks for that color trait, and the absence of other colors traits, and then treats that as a small-scale speed trait in itself. So that information appears to check out.

 

The other new colors do not seem to have any special effects that I've seen.

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3 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

 

I did notice, when looking at speed trait effects, that ebony/jet black horses do in fact have a minor speed boost as you suggest. It checks for that color trait, and the absence of other colors traits, and then treats that as a small-scale speed trait in itself. So that information appears to check out.

 

The other new colors do not seem to have any special effects that I've seen.

 

which sounds like they wanted to leave the door open "in case" other colors at some point had special bonuses? Like, maybe not Bloodbay + Piebald/pinto but coded for potential future colors, which might or not have special bonuses?  of course it would be hilarious if we discovered the basic grey color had some special property that no one ever noticed. Like finding water ^_^ which Rolf had mentioned in some videos that some horses could do.

 

Can a horse carry *multiple color traits* even if only ONE is physically visible at a time? I have actually suspected they might, and that bolded section makes me wonder more. I sometimes have a foal that "seems" to inherit a grandparents coloration even though that did not seem logical.  If not, why check BOTH for ebony to exist -AND- that no other trait also exists? Wouldn;t the mere fact that ebony existed mean no other color trait was possible?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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