Disappointment with Building in Mines - Question for Dev's

[JakeRivers 2,921]

So recently this huge feature came out and I have happily built a few buildings in my mine. 

 

I did help with some of the testing, or at least tried out building underground on the test server, but there are a few questions I have still which I have not been able to have directly answered.

 

First off, and this is a big one as I have still had rock fall in my mine on exodus on top of reinforced floor tiles as recently as 2 weeks ago.

 

Can a collapse happen on a reinforced floor tile on your deed with a building on it? I have put 2 structures up so far, neither is completed yet as I fear to do a pile of work and then log on the next day to see numerous floors and items all buried under a pile of rock. For this reason I am also in no hurry to waste bricks and mortar on more buildings that could go poof in a heartbeat.

 

Second question I have is the lack of wall type options. I knew there was just the plain choices on test, but assumed that was just because that was all that was needed for testing purposes.

 

So will we be getting the regular wall choices, especially the regular stone wall options, but there are many who prefer building in wood or timber frame as well. If we are to only have as a choice of plain stone, I would like to know the reason for this I do like the looks, but really prefer to put more variety into my underground city.

 

 

[bdew 2,462]

13 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

Can a collapse happen on a reinforced floor tile on your deed with a building on it?

 

Only the devs can fully answer that, but if they brought the code in WO to match the one in WU - then you should never see a collapse on a tile with a reinforced floor.

 

13 hours ago, JakeRivers said:

but assumed that was just because that was all that was needed for testing purposes

 

Never assume that something is "just for testing" unless directly told that it is. If you see something wrong or something you dislike and never report it - good chances are it will go live as is. (/developer-rant)

[Ayes 3,715]

9 minutes ago, bdew said:

 

Only the devs can fully answer that, but if they brought the code in WO to match the one in WU - then you should never see a collapse on a tile with a reinforced floor.

 

I tried to start a building on a WU server on a level reinforced tile with my trowel (hammer too) in my mine but it gave me no option to do this. Has the ability to build houses in mines in WU been activated?

 

=Ayes=

[enoofu 206]

Believe the beta patch for WU allows it

[bdew 2,462]

Beta plus you need to enable it from feature management.

[joedobo 1,187]

On 6/6/2016 at 3:09 PM, JakeRivers said:

 

 

Second question I have is the lack of wall type options. I knew there was just the plain choices on test, but assumed that was just because that was all that was needed for testing purposes.

 

So will we be getting the regular wall choices, especially the regular stone wall options, but there are many who prefer building in wood or timber frame as well. If we are to only have as a choice of plain stone, I would like to know the reason for this I do like the looks, but really prefer to put more variety into my underground city.

 

 

For what I saw when I modded WU regarding this issue was that someone put in EXTRA work to MAKE SURE only certain wall types would be available.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

1 hour ago, joedobo said:

put in EXTRA work to MAKE SURE only certain

 

What do you mean by this? That only the plain stone wall is supposed to be the only choice?

[joedobo 1,187]

"supposed to be" is a difficult thing to ascertain. I'm just reporting what I observed in WU. Make of it as you will.

[Talohan 129]

According to Retro, only stone walls can be built underground and I'm going to venture out and say it will not change for awhile.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Great, but I am still waiting to hear from wurm staff. 8)

 

Official and all.

 

My greater concern though is collapsing on tiles, and I have had a collapse on top of a reinforced tile very recently.

Edited June 9, 2016 by JakeRivers

[enoofu 206]

I thought they remove collasped tiles on reinforced tiles a couple months ago do to the fiasco it created when they upped the rate

Edited June 9, 2016 by enoofu

[JakeRivers 2,921]

9 hours ago, enoofu said:

I thought they remove collasped tiles on reinforced tiles a couple months ago do to the fiasco it created when they upped the rate

 

I was under that impression too, but then it happened.

 

How long before someone posts about a collapse on a building.

Edited June 10, 2016 by JakeRivers

[enoofu 206]

14 hours ago, Talohan said:

According to Retro, only stone walls can be built underground and I'm going to venture out and say it will not change for awhile.

 

Yep, shows only these options for walls

Plain stone wall

Plain narrow stone window

Plain stone barred wall

Plain stone double door

Plain stone arched wall

Plain stone window

 

So far, the rules for deeds seem to be

---------------------------

Must be over the Water line. floor must be level and be on reinforced floor. and the surrounding tiles on the sides need to be removed also

 

---------------------------------

bdew

"Beta plus you need to enable it from feature management."

Is correct as you need version 1.07 and have GM permission to enable this on WU 

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by enoofu

[Zakerak 442]

pity, walls kinds are limited

 

but what kinds of floors, staircases and roofs are available?

[enoofu 206]

1 hour ago, Zakerak said:

pity, walls kinds are limited

 

but what kinds of floors, staircases and roofs are available?

Pretty sure any as it is a stone house

[zigozag 918]

No roofs underground.

Edited June 10, 2016 by zigozag

[Talohan 129]

Yeah no roofs, but can do the flat top castle look with parphets I think.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Yeah parapets are good to go. I just don't want to end up rebuilding this when rock falls through it.

 

[bdew 2,462]

To be honest roofed buildings would look pretty stupid underground

 

More walls should definetly be available, i don't see any technical limitations to that, i'll probably enable all of them for my server when 1.0.0.7 goes live.

[Ayes 3,715]

Can you reinforce the side walls before creating the building? It's my understanding that the reinforced side walls are what prevents cave-ins. Reinforcing floors is just to prevent low skilled miners from mining them down. Also yea, they are required to plan a house on them but don't effect cave-in prevention.

 

=Ayes=

[bdew 2,462]

5 hours ago, Ayes said:

Can you reinforce the side walls before creating the building? It's my understanding that the reinforced side walls are what prevents cave-ins. Reinforcing floors is just to prevent low skilled miners from mining them down. Also yea, they are required to plan a house on them but don't effect cave-in prevention.

 

I don't know if it's true for WO, but looking at WU code reinforced floors should entirely prevent collapses. 

[fatboy 448]

Reinforce  side  walls, problem  solved  :-P

[Ayes 3,715]

31 minutes ago, bdew said:

 

I don't know if it's true for WO, but looking at WU code reinforced floors should entirely prevent collapses. 

 

Sorry but I don't buy that. When reinforced floors were introduced into the game several years back it was for the purpose of preventing low level miners (newbies) from mining floors down and ruining mine access. Mine walls cave in from the side walls, thus reinforced walls have always prevented cave ins on adjacent tiles.

 

Then after some time passes from reinforced floor introduction some player comments that, yea I am not getting cave ins on reinforced floor tiles. Through the random cave in system they have avoided cave ins so they then claim this is because of reinforced floor tiles. Then someone else says, yea I am not getting cave ins on reinforced floor tiles either because they read/heard some other player claim this. Thus another myth is born about a function of the game that was never intended for that purpose.

 

Maybe reinforced floors prevent cave ins then out of some unintended un-programmed coding for that purpose? Or would it be more likely that players are just misinterpreting their random avoidance of cave ins on reinforced floor tiles? I would say that the latter is the case, for if it is not then there would be no further need to reinforce 2 side wall tiles when reinforcing 1 floor tile would accomplish the same thing.

 

To me this doesn't fall in with Dev thinking, in that they don't want to code in any shortcuts to their otherwise tedious game functions and processes, especially unintendedly. Heaven forbid that 1 reinforced tile can take the place of 2! If so this is a bug that must be resolved!, but I think it is just speculative players that have come to this conclusion and those are the types of prophesiers that I choose not to rely upon.

 

=Ayes=

[joedobo 1,187]

 

 

@Ayescode is like the equation 2 + 2 = 4. No matter what one's opinion is of the equation it doesn't change the fact that it is 4. Likewise if the code shows it's not possible for a collapse to happen on reinforced then it's not possible regardless of folks' opinions. And of course the code spoken of in this case is for WU not WO. I haven't look at WU code to verify what Bdew saw.

 

patch notes history from the wiki: http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Wurm_Server_Release_Notes_2016

"Fix for cave ins not happening in middle of an area without reinforced cave floors."

"Cave tiles that are reinforced (floors) now reduce the possibility of cave ins."

 

Forming an opinion purely based on on these patch notes would lead me to believe that it is possible for a cave-ins to happen on reinforced floors.

 

[bdew 2,462]

First of all i was wrong about reinforced tiles, i was writing this from memory, not looking at the code and i guess i misremembered it.

 

Reinforced tiles don't prevent collapses but they do significantly reduce the chance (by about 80%)

 

Also finished houses should fully prevent collapses of tiles inside or next to them:

 

2 hours ago, joedobo said:

patch notes

 

That change was done after i pointed out the bug that was preventing it from working, last time this was discussed

Actually i'm not even sure if it was actually fixed, from a cursory look the bugged code that was doing nothing was just removed. Maybe that check was moved elsewhere but i'm not seeing it.