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Ondar

Sold silver through paypal to Niru, now he disputes it

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Those money were only hold for a few hours on paypal accounts because of pending investigations. No overdrafts in banks done, no money disappeared. So yeah, only harm done was to my nerves :)

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12 hours ago, Cambriaa said:

Wow, this is getting pretty out of hand. The GM's have stated they are looking into this. I have gotten to know Niru since he first started playing wurm some months back. There must be some sort of misunderstanding. I know for a fact that he wasn't going to be playing much this week, family are in visiting him from out of the country.

Friends of mine in game also have him on facebook and have just forwarded this news to him. So hopefully he can see all this soon.

I know he loves this game, and he's the friendliest, and kindest person. I do not believe he is trying to scam anyone.

I know anything dealing with real life money can get quite serious, and I can understand people being upset, so hopefully he will see this soon and be able to sort it all out properly.

This hit me hard - I don't buy or sell via PayPal to individuals I do not know IRL.  It's just too risky.  But I have had many in game dealings with Niru since he bought Waterdeep.  He has always been kind, funny, friendly and a very gentle person. I know good con artists exhibit similar qualities, but I'm also very good at reading people online and off - Niru feels like a decent person.  He's also quite intelligent and I can't see  a smart man doing back to back scams if he wanted to stay in the scam business.  I don't know how this will shake out, but I've known other real life people who've had their PayPal account identity stolen and didn't realize it for awhile.  If he's guilty it will come to light, but if he's a victim as well, then he'll know who his real friends are here in Wurm. Good luck to you all.  

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5 minutes ago, Ondar said:

Those money were only hold for a few hours on paypal accounts because of pending investigations. No overdrafts in banks done, no money disappeared. So yeah, only harm done was to my nerves :)

 

Wait, he spent about five grand in some HOURS? I honestly don't think I could have pulled that off even if I had to.

 

No matter what, it's not ok. Even if it was all an utter mistake, and the dad reversed the charges because he thought it was someone hacking his account, or the bank somehow did it thinking it was also a mistake, by now he could have rushed on here and said, "folks, I'm sorry about this, here is what happened and I will fix it asap! I have gone to Paypal and explained that the charges are real and should go through." It could be some misguided actions from getting carried away, but the kickstarter people were mislead, and people here got abused, and there are no apologies or explanations.

 

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No, he spent it in matter of 2-3 months in wurm, but it was not his paypal account (at least it seems like that) but his dads. And his dad marked all (old) transaction as unauthorized by him. That was the start of investigations by paypal. Fortunately it was quite quick.

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9 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

 

Help me follow this logic. Someone comes on this game, and within a short time period spends thousands of dollars on various accounts/items, and then by coincidence all the purchases are reversed? If you said to me Lorraine, you have a month to spend two grand on Wurm or there will be dire consequences, I would be hard pressed to do it. And he's trying to raise money to write a book? Why spend 2k on Wurm if you're saving up for your book? So did some person hack the account and pretend to be him and buy stuff from people who knew him already but didn't detect it was a faker, or did someone magically know he'd bought the items, and then over a period of some days reverse the monies into his account and then what, rob the bank? It's too many purchases in a short time for this to be totally innocent. Maybe he got into some strange state that made him act badly, but he needs to cool the hell off and not be in the same game as me, that's how I feel. He doesn't seem capable right now of resisting temptation.

 

The logic was actually way simpler, since i didn't say "don't ban him"

I just said that might be kinda inappropriate to ask GMs to ban him right now, without even trying to udnerstand what happened, we are still talking about an external website, we can make really likely assumptions, but we can't know for sure what happened until it's clarified.

So letting the rage of the moment take over is something a player or an individual can do and it's totally justifyable, but you can't really ask GMs to "kill" him off for you without any previous investigation.

I said myself i still can't figure out which way this possibly could have gone without being his fault, but we still have to admit there's a minimal chance.

I'm not either saying we'll have to believe anything he comes tells us as a justification, but maybe he have proofs or something we aren't thinking about at the moment.

The danger has passed, let's all chill out and let GM handle the situation professionally and taking their time, as someone said, this isn't a witch hunt : )

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Also, guys, if you want to take some advices by someone who lived off many past years being a goldseller on various games:

- Don't ever take money you got from selling virtual goods as "granted" until several months are passed.
- Always remember Paypal is awful, even if this time it worked out in our favor, it was just because this have been(or seemed) a terrible scamming attempt, no matter how many proofs, screenshots and logs you have, if you have been paid from a stolen paypal account, you will lose your money, period.

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Some of the personal information on this fellow has been removed (hidden) by myself in this thread.  The last thing we need is some angry fellow digging deeper into the net and getting it into his head that he demands personal justice or some other harassment.  Paypal has ruled on it and I hope all of your are squared up with that.  Let us deal with the IG end of things.  Do contact Paypal if you have not had your chargeback flipped.

 

There comes a time where people make mistakes and people hunt witches, and that's fair and well, but when things are settled and people have money back in their banks in such a situation I worry about people getting doxxed or perhaps even suffering personal injury.  We do not need to make effigies of people after the fact, and I couldn't bear some less than stable person further doxxing someone and causing personal harm to them IRL.  It has happened before over lesser things, but thankfully not in Wurm.  I assure you this case is still active and will remain so for some time.

 

I hope this is understandable.  If it is not, feel free to PM me, or holler at my Boss.  I believe in transparency, and this is honestly the only time I have ever done any forums modding, but it needed doing.


This fellow is easy to track down just off the name, but I cannot accept people drawing a road map to the fellows home via Wurm forums.

 

Thanks,

GM Baphomet / Duce

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The kid should reply here imo, if he doesn't it will always be 6 pages of speculation.

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Make this a sticky!  I am serious.  Change the title to: Scammers beware! Don't mess with the Wurm Community!

 

I'm not saying Niru was a scammer, but this thread is a shining example of how fast and hard we fight back.

Edited by Wurmhole
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speculate  or not, this is  friggin insane. its  very obvious  this  fella  abused his  dad's  paypal account,  the  fact  he is  NOT  responding to this  thread  is  a  red  flag.  Is he even active  atm?   So far looks like he  spent money he regretted  spending, tried to get it back and keep what he got and  failed.    this is a massive problem, its  also why i will only  deal with those ive known in wurm for years  and  proven i can trust  them.  its the main reason i wont  trust  anyone new.

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6 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

Make this a sticky!  I am serious.  Change the title to: Scammers beware! Don't mess with the Wurm Community!

 

I'm not saying Niru was a scammer, but this thread is a shining example of how fast and hard we fight back.

 

It was very good to see that all the community - even members who clearly dislike each other ingame - acted as a coherent group.

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3 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

 

Wait, he spent about five grand in some HOURS? I honestly don't think I could have pulled that off even if I had to.

 

No matter what, it's not ok. Even if it was all an utter mistake, and the dad reversed the charges because he thought it was someone hacking his account, or the bank somehow did it thinking it was also a mistake, by now he could have rushed on here and said, "folks, I'm sorry about this, here is what happened and I will fix it asap! I have gone to Paypal and explained that the charges are real and should go through." It could be some misguided actions from getting carried away, but the kickstarter people were mislead, and people here got abused, and there are no apologies or explanations.

 

 

 

I think right now the best course of action is to stop making assumptions about what happened and wait for the judgment of the staff and his response. We all got our money back, the warning is on the forums, and more assumptions and rumours are simply not doing anything useful. If you want to keep writing with what little factual information you have... do so elsewhere. Please read the thread carefully, take in the warnings, and write information that you have that is factual, like, " I dealt with the same guy and paypal desiputed xxx euros from my account"  or " I dealt with him, but it was with ingame money" The more false/assumed/untrue information gets written here, the harder it gets if paypal turns around and asks us for additional info. This thread is linked directly in our defense to the dispute so they will see it, and think we are all just running wild on assumptions and accusations.  Nobody knows it the kickstarter was a scam. Nobody even knows for sure that he is the same guy. That's all just assumptions. The money wasn't spent in hours, it was spent over a period of months. I'm serious, you're making it more difficult for us than it has to be when you write that kindof stuff as if they are facts.

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This is unfortunate, I am sorry this happened to you all. 

 

I was not affected by this incident itself. However the collateral damage done to those of us who buy things in wurm through paypal has and probably will affect me in the future. Speculation and assumptions are part of our nature as is painting others with the same tainted brush.  we should also remember that there may be a possible explanation for this.

 

I save my chat logs for each transaction and I also have my PMs emailed to me in case someone decides to "delete" them later. (which I wish CC-AB would stop that from happening as it is another way of tracking transactions)

 

Please know that if you have any questions about my dealings, I have references... :D:ph34r:;)

 

I hope everyone was saved any real trouble, like charge backs and over drafts. I also hope that Niru has a good explanation as he seems to be a likable fellow and not the type to perpetrate something like this. 

 

On a side note - Alyeska your sig is hilarious, I only just started looking into some of it and that painted a picture for me.

Edited by Saicotic
side note.
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3 hours ago, LorenaMontana said:

The kid should reply here imo, if he doesn't it will always be 6 pages of speculation.

He doesn't need to reply to this tread, the GM team is looking into this matter

 

We don't know what happen at the moment and we aren't a court of law, and if he is innocent it would probably be very embarrassing

Personally I would holdout on Trading with him until this is settled

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I find this funny.  What does it teach you about paypal and purchasing and selling things on a game?  Do NOT do it.  No I am not affiliated with Niru or have any idea who he is, so do not go start making assumptions because I stated my opinion. 

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Had the same... 300+ for me but it was resolved in my favor.

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10 minutes ago, Chansbi said:

I find this funny.  What does it teach you about paypal and purchasing and selling things on a game?  Do NOT do it.  No I am not affiliated with Niru or have any idea who he is, so do not go start making assumptions because I stated my opinion. 

 Don't believe that is the issue, rather its these 2 things

 

1. Beware who you sell too

2. Don't withdraw Paypal profit's until at least 90 day past, as that is normally the longest Credit Card or banking chargebacks can happen

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9 hours ago, Shalbriri said:

Some of the personal information on this fellow has been removed (hidden) by myself in this thread.  The last thing we need is some angry fellow digging deeper into the net and getting it into his head that he demands personal justice or some other harassment.  Paypal has ruled on it and I hope all of your are squared up with that.  Let us deal with the IG end of things.  Do contact Paypal if you have not had your chargeback flipped.

 

There comes a time where people make mistakes and people hunt witches, and that's fair and well, but when things are settled and people have money back in their banks in such a situation I worry about people getting doxxed or perhaps even suffering personal injury.  We do not need to make effigies of people after the fact, and I couldn't bear some less than stable person further doxxing someone and causing personal harm to them IRL.  It has happened before over lesser things, but thankfully not in Wurm.  I assure you this case is still active and will remain so for some time.

 

I hope this is understandable.  If it is not, feel free to PM me, or holler at my Boss.  I believe in transparency, and this is honestly the only time I have ever done any forums modding, but it needed doing.


This fellow is easy to track down just off the name, but I cannot accept people drawing a road map to the fellows home via Wurm forums.

 

Thanks,

GM Baphomet / Duce

 

Thank you.

 

My biggest fear is that this kid, who clearly ****ed up, attracts the attention of the wrong crowd and gets himself doxxed, fired, or worse.

 

The judges are ruling in the right favor, this kid is going to get punished. The kid probably won't learn his lesson, but it's not our job to be executioner.

 

Vigilantism should be left only for cases where justice isn't being served. This is a case where justice is. I'm impressed with how well CodeClub AB is responding to this. You guys are learning your lessons from past griefings and account scams well.

 

Edited by Dairuka
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I still don't understand why everyone is so stuck on this being a scam...why would someone risk so much money on nothing but in game stuff, after seeing Niki go squirrel nut crazy on the forums and how quickly everything blows up here...

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@Mykoal

Why are you taking my name into this? I have my reasons for some of my drama topics, none of that is even remotely related, I made a promise that I will keep my personal issues off the forum to the staff. Niru was a good friend, all we know is everyone got charged back. I do understand why your defending him but it just isn't fair to deny people a place to communicate. Paypal needs to read all of this I'm sure for the investigation so does the staff.

Edited by Niki

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8 hours ago, Alyeska said:

The money wasn't spent in hours, it was spent over a period of months.

 

Yes, that is clear now. It was the chargebacks that happened very rapidly. Sorry to speculate again, but this makes me think it was the dad or himself doing the reversing. If a bank gets suspicious about fraudulent charges, they freeze the account, but they don't go back into the past and cherry-pick old transactions to dispute. They shut down your account, alert you, and you have to sort it out with them.

 

It sounds like he got carried away with purchases, and there was no intention as it was happening to rip people off. Then his dad said WTF is this and reversed all of it, or he got into a jam with the funds and panicked. I hope somehow he can sell the items again to recoup as much of the misspent money as possible. But the only way I can imagine it working is with some professional middleman. This is the fastest I've ever heard of Paypal reacting and I'm pleasantly surprised.

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7 hours ago, Dairuka said:

I'm impressed with how well CodeClub AB is responding to this. 

 

What did Code Club do?

Im just curious.

 

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Heh first I heard about this was in my email. Hadn't checked forums in some days due to work.

 

Ah, so others were impacted as well. Tis unfortunate. Usually in similar situations I wouldn't mind re-imbursing in some manner; however, recently there's been some spendy, unexpected repairs needed on my truck.

 

Same buyer had purchased some silver from me approx. a month ago. Long story short, Paypal has decided in my favor.

 

If the information is helpful:


Transaction date: Apr 4, 2016
Transaction amount: 60.00 EUR
Your transaction ID: 5C0684451E048915D
Case number: PP-004-827-533-784

Edited by Klaa

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