Sold silver through paypal to Niru, now he disputes it

[Neville 166]

I agree with Ondar and I will not be using PayPal ever again. In fact, PayPal can go ahead and ban my account if they want as they would be doing me a favour.

 

I will be removing any information I can from the account. I won't be paying one cent towards resolving the negative balance in the account unless they send me a warning to pay out the account.

 

By then, they will have spent more money to recover the funds from me than the negative balance in the account. I guess PayPal needs to start losing money before they start protecting consumers as a priority instead of fraudsters.

 

--

As you know, we have been working with the buyer's credit card issuer to dispute the chargeback detailed below.

• Buyer's name: Neal Hicks
• Buyer's email: nealhicks@gmail.com
• Buyer's transaction ID: 2U5267424F846111G
• Your transaction ID: 0VJ982428V1304424
• Transaction date: April 30, 2016
• Transaction amount: €35.00 EUR
• Disputed amount: $42.73 USD

The credit card issuer decided the chargeback in the buyer's favor as the buyer met the card issuer's requirements.

Although we cannot dispute this transaction any further, we encourage you to contact your buyer directly to reach a resolution.

Thank you for your patience during this process. We appreciate your business.

 

Sincerely,

PayPal

[LorraineJ 1,099]

7 hours ago, Niki said:

"We have completed our investigation. After reviewing the details of this case, we have determined that it is unlikely that we will be able to successfully dispute this chargeback. This matter has been resolved and no funds were debited from your account for this chargeback."

 

Can someone translate this to English for me? First it says they can't dispute, then it says no funds were debited. Aren't those opposing statements?

[Mordraug 2,542]

Bring in law enforcement, betcha Wurm's not the only place he's done this.

https://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

https://www.ic3.gov/faq/default.aspx

[Tazinsky 93]

i had this issue with idiots chargebacking on other games like runescape, and even happens if you sell crap on ebay so i dont use paypal anymore, maybe we should all consider using playerauctions since they have a escrow service to help stop this rubbish.

[Pashka 707]

Seems as if I recall some issues with that site too though.

[Davih 1,340]

Can someone please show me how a "lost" chargeback looks like on the transaction history?

I can't understand what happened. They assured me they would "cover" the 16€ fee for me, i can't see anythign under "payments" and the original transaction still looks as "+20€" but in details there's a "completed" chargeback for "-36€" but no negative amount in my history at all.

Also i didn't receive any mail about this in the last month.

Being a small transaction I now can't understand if they actually took the money of not, it's so confusing.

[Kegan 3,926]

I don't think there is one it is all in the resolution center if you already paid then the deal is done. The only way you will see the transaction is in the balance and then in the resolution center under old cases. I suspect that the ones that got the emails have not paid their negative balance and is why they received the email for collection. 

 

I could be wrong but I have not gotten any email and I doubt I will since I have already paid off the charge back and the fees. The only way I can even see the deal is in the resolution center thing the one under Neal Hicks name still shows as i received money and mentions nothing about the charge back case.  (on a side note his account was verified before and now it is not) 

[Davih 1,340]

This is how it looks: I can't tell if they actually covered the 16€ fee for me or if they didn't, i can't seel any +16€ transaction anywhere but on the last line it just states i've sent 20€ ... how do yours look like? If they even lied to me about covering the 16€ that'd be ridiculous

Edited July 9, 2016 by Davih

[Kegan 3,926]

Well the fee is Paypal's fee then they sent the 20 euros to the settlement so yes from the looks you were charged the 16 euro fee.  Mine just says sent $50 usd but I was also charged the $20 fee too but that is Paypals fee so they don't send that part. 

 

I guess your only way to know for sure is to call them. 

[Davih 1,340]

I am sorry if i have ever said anything even vaguely nice about paypal, i take it back, their service is ultimate garbage.

[Kelody 333]

While I am very hesitant using PayPal for virtual services, PayPal did find in favor of the sellers. It was the credit card company that issued the charge back.

[Davih 1,340]

Yeah, paypal just sitted back doing nothing, allowing them to steal money and charged 16€ for the good service. Also lied to me about refunding me their 16€

[Redd 4,281]

If the GMs would be kind enough to grab the items we sold Niru that would be swell.

 

I know you don't have to but it would be a nice gesture

[Davih 1,340]

They shouldn't do that, for the victime side, but it would be a good example to at least blocking him from using them forever, giving them back to the owners would create something dangerous for them, like people would begin to think they are proected for this kind of trades, if they do that they should at least specify it's a one time only circumstance

[Redd 4,281]

To my knowledge, scamming and that is not condoned in Wurm and they do aid in it. 

 

 

[JakeRivers 2,921]

Yes this was a scam, not sure what this arse got out of it though, it baffles me to no end, maybe to just grief the small community of wurm for his own jollies.

 

I do believe everyone who sold this guy items should get those back, the silver/gold sold I am not sure how this could be handled, maybe auctioning off the assets left over and splitting the proceeds. The GM's have the logs and can tell who should get what back and could very well do this. This is not some small time deal, this was a huge hit to the wurm economy with the false market which still has not recovered from this.

 

What this guy did was bad for the image of the game, bad for its player base, and paypal will forever be tarnished over this matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rixk 830]

 

12 minutes ago, JakeRivers said:

Yes this was a scam, not sure what this arse got out of it though, it baffles me to no end, maybe to just grief the small community of wurm for his own jollies.

 

I do believe everyone who sold this guy items should get those back, the silver/gold sold I am not sure how this could be handled, maybe auctioning off the assets left over and splitting the proceeds. The GM's have the logs and can tell who should get what back and could very well do this. This is not some small time deal, this was a huge hit to the wurm economy with the false market which still has not recovered from this.

 

What this guy did was bad for the image of the game, bad for its player base, and paypal will forever be tarnished over this matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is, GMs don't have Paypal logs.

And.. if they return stuff, they officially support selling stuff for real money, which until now has been "at your own risk".

[Redd 4,281]

Afaik Code Club was scammed too (for prem). I'm sure their payment has been charged back too 

[Kegan 3,926]

Enki has already said that they had a few things in mind so just be patient and give them some time to figure out what they are going to do.  

[enoofu 206]

Since you guys know where he lives, have you reported this to that policeforce??

 

With 20+ complaints, and thousands of dollars of fraundant activity they may check this out

[Talohan 129]

Well, in the U.S. you can prosecute for internet fraud but, requires a lot of paperwork, ###### loads of files, emails, etc. and sometimes subpoenas to ISP's and that takes a lot of hard evidence to even show one to a judge to consider. Take the bitcoin cases and Panama Papers as an example. Plus this game is based in a foreign country and that requires the Justice dept. to get involved and State dept.

[enoofu 206]

45 minutes ago, Talohan said:

Well, in the U.S. you can prosecute for internet fraud but, requires a lot of paperwork, ###### loads of files, emails, etc. and sometimes subpoenas to ISP's and that takes a lot of hard evidence to even show one to a judge to consider. Take the bitcoin cases and Panama Papers as an example. Plus this game is based in a foreign country and that requires the Justice dept. to get involved and State dept.

 

Not totally correct as quite a few of the victims are Americans and since the activity origin is supposedly in the US ( Hicks house )

 

Also doesn't really take any evidence for a Judge to consider a subpoena towards a ISP for a John Doe since they basically rubber-stamp those for law enforcement 

 

We are also assuming that he is not involved in other unlawful actions which may not be the case

Edited July 10, 2016 by enoofu

[Kegan 3,926]

Well there it is Enki has posted in the GM hall and they are not going to be doing anything for us in regards to our items/coins that were sold. I guess they will be forever locked away on the banned accounts but I still will not be using player auctions.  I think most people are honest when it comes to this game so I will just carry on with Paypal like always. 

 

I have sold things to people for years here and in that time there has only been this one thing that has come up. I for sure have made more then I lost on this deal over the years so time to move on I guess. (I will be more selective who I sell to from now on for sure though)  

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/143207-real-world-transactions/#comment-1470668

 

 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Kegan

[Redd 4,281]

Dont know why Wuyrm have done this. Their game thrives partially due to the market. If peoiple lose faith in the market... rip wurm :/

 

I always though scamming was one of those cases wurm helped the victim, somethings changed since then i guess

 

Spose this thread can be locked then.

[enoofu 206]

14 minutes ago, Redd said:

Dont know why Wuyrm have done this. Their game thrives partially due to the market. If peoiple lose faith in the market... rip wurm :/

 

I always though scamming was one of those cases wurm helped the victim, somethings changed since then i guess

 

Spose this thread can be locked then.

 

Believe the issue was that he spent a lot of the silver, and the Devs are uncertain that they have all of his items as he spent months consuming the items

 

------------------------------You should report this to, Epscially if you refuse to pay paypal--------------------------------

EU

https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/report-cybercrime

FBI

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

 

Also to Hicks Local Police department

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You may want to keep this thread open so you can still add people(As they can see this thread) to your private thread in case you guys want to go though Debt Collections or a lawsuit