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Ondar

Sold silver through paypal to Niru, now he disputes it

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He just placed more charge backs on me

Case opened: Case ID PP-004-860-660-355 s

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1 hour ago, Alyeska said:

 

He did buy prem from the shop. The 20 euros he got by selling things ingame, he spent back to buy premium. Those 20 euros are now being disputed AFTER he already spent them back on the game.

PSalmon said he should have got premium through code club avenues, meaning using excess silver to buy premium time directly.  Granted selling silvers privately then using the cash to buy premium can offer better gains, but this excess gain is called  risk premium , with the risk free asset being dealings with code club directly.

 

I imagine the risk selling silvers privately in low enough that one would still expect to come out ahead using this method, but one must still remember part of what you 'save' by selling silver privately is consumed by risk.  Also i can not help but notice the parallels between this situation and the bank bailouts in the Great Recession.  Some had made gains/profits from taking on risk, but then expect to be reimbursed when those risks show up.  If paypal fixes this situation (I hope they do) then that is awesome, if not, then it would be mathematically disingenuous to expect Code Club to reimburse or bailout players who took part in the private sales.

 

Unfortunately, our brains are not very efficient at dealing with abstract risks, particularly when we perceive these risks to be small.  For those of you who have now awoken to this fact, I would like to recommend a great book that can help people better deal with abstract risks, it is called 'Fooled by Randomness' by Nicholas Nassim Taleb.  While I do empathize with those here who may lose out, I do hope at least this could be used as a broader learning experience.

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Chargeback opened: Case ID PP-004-861-307-435

We are writing to let you know that one of your buyers opened a chargeback with their card issuer. The buyer stated that they did not authorize this purchase.

Here are the details of this case: 

  • Buyer's name: Neal Hicks
  • Buyer's email: nealhicks@gmail.com
  • Buyer's transaction ID: 70V5099533018611F
  • Your transaction ID:19N96502GJ4930204
  • Transaction date: 29 April 2016
  • Transaction amount: 43,00 EUR
  • Disputed amount: 52,89 USD

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Yeah. That bustard is reopening chargeback cases after it was seems resolved :( 

PP-004-860-874-252

 

What can we give to paypal as a proof that we gave him what he paid for?

Edited by Velintar

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Starting to sound like he quit Wurm and wants all his money back.

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He was not successful directly on paypal so he now tries it with his credit card company. :( I wrote them that they already have all the info and pointed them to this thread.

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  • Buyer's name: Neal Hicks
  • Buyer's email: nealhicks@gmail.com
  • Buyer's transaction ID: 314664016Y6664919
  • Your transaction ID:9NR96633P70818736
  • Transaction date: 02 May 2016
  • Transaction amount: 10,00 EUR
  • Disputed amount: 12,66 USD

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29 minutes ago, Ondar said:

He was not successful directly on paypal so he now tries it with his credit card company. :( I wrote them that they already have all the info and pointed them to this thread.

 

Good call, everyone having issues include a link to this thread, guy's running enough disputes to indicate fraud rather clearly.

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7 hours ago, hankrearden said:

PSalmon said he should have got premium through code club avenues, meaning using excess silver to buy premium time directly.  Granted selling silvers privately then using the cash to buy premium can offer better gains, but this excess gain is called  risk premium , with the risk free asset being dealings with code club directly.

 

I imagine the risk selling silvers privately in low enough that one would still expect to come out ahead using this method, but one must still remember part of what you 'save' by selling silver privately is consumed by risk.  Also i can not help but notice the parallels between this situation and the bank bailouts in the Great Recession.  Some had made gains/profits from taking on risk, but then expect to be reimbursed when those risks show up.  If paypal fixes this situation (I hope they do) then that is awesome, if not, then it would be mathematically disingenuous to expect Code Club to reimburse or bailout players who took part in the private sales.

 

Unfortunately, our brains are not very efficient at dealing with abstract risks, particularly when we perceive these risks to be small.  For those of you who have now awoken to this fact, I would like to recommend a great book that can help people better deal with abstract risks, it is called 'Fooled by Randomness' by Nicholas Nassim Taleb.  While I do empathize with those here who may lose out, I do hope at least this could be used as a broader learning experience.

 

Not sure how much this is referred to me and my 20€ i used to rebuy premium or about the general situation, but honestly, i don't care too much about it, i already made them back.

I don't really need the patronizing, i've made like 25k from playing diablo3, (and they say this game is about money :D) , i just took a really low risk, had bad luck, i never expected code club to reimburse me in any way, i could just expect by paypal and/or his credit card company to not be complete morons. I would do this again, not with him, ofc.

Edited by Davih
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This is just silly... the guy is digging his own grave. I don't care if people say he is nice and all. But making everyone in minus and scamming them is something a scammer/troll would do. I bet he is sitting there in his chair right now laughing so hard that he lost one of his lungs.I really hope that paypal fixes up in this case and maybe he gets taken to court for his actions. Only thing I see fitting for this guy now is a mental hospital or jail.

No one deserves to be put in minus by a guy who find the enjoyment in scamming others.:(

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Been seeing this type of dispute scam for years in World of Warcraft. It's either a stolen credit card (which seems unlikely) or he's just a thieving d-bag committing credit fraud.

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3 hours ago, Magicmike said:

Been seeing this type of dispute scam for years in World of Warcraft. It's either a stolen credit card (which seems unlikely) or he's just a thieving d-bag committing credit fraud.

 

But how would it work if it was a stolen credit card? The person stole his credit card, magically determined he played Wurm, found out who his friends were, got them to sell him things pretending to be him, then reversed the charges planning to rob the bank when the money got back in there? Or did they steal the credit card, hack into the bank to figure out which chargebacks would be most likely to work, then ran them, planning to rob the bank? Doing the chargebacks could only benefit the account holder. It has to be either buyer's remorse for spending all that money, or else it was the father's account and the dad is totally pissed that all that money got spent. If it's buyer's remorse, he SHOULD have just resold all the stuff he bought. He could have made a thread like 'Neal's OMG I Totally Screwed Up Emergency Auctions!' and explained in the thread that his father found out he spent 5K on a video game and was gonna throw his ass out the house if he didn't recoup the money, so help a guy out please and bid on these lovely wares! Doing these false chargebacks is criminal.

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I have recently learnt that i have been hit by Nail Hicks as well. He did a retraction on payment and has set me back $170.28 for 1 Gold in-game currency. I did two transactions back to back and mixed the gold buyer up with the toon buyer. My deepest apologies to the person buying the toon. But needless to say I am still out 1 Gold Coin. Hopefully this gets straightened out.

Edited by Shagsdeval
mixed toon and gold sale up.

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On a side note, how many accounts did he buy? did he really need that many? buying so many accounts makes me think more about a scamming activity that just a random kid buying thousands of silvers because he wanted all the op, cool and shiny stuff

Edited by Davih

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Probably should make the Gm team aware of any alt accounts he bought

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23 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

 

But how would it work if it was a stolen credit card? The person stole his credit card, magically determined he played Wurm, found out who his friends were, got them to sell him things pretending to be him, then reversed the charges planning to rob the bank when the money got back in there? Or did they steal the credit card, hack into the bank to figure out which chargebacks would be most likely to work, then ran them, planning to rob the bank? Doing the chargebacks could only benefit the account holder. It has to be either buyer's remorse for spending all that money, or else it was the father's account and the dad is totally pissed that all that money got spent. If it's buyer's remorse, he SHOULD have just resold all the stuff he bought. He could have made a thread like 'Neal's OMG I Totally Screwed Up Emergency Auctions!' and explained in the thread that his father found out he spent 5K on a video game and was gonna throw his ass out the house if he didn't recoup the money, so help a guy out please and bid on these lovely wares! Doing these false chargebacks is criminal.

 

Not magically... For all we know, some poor sap named Neal could have had one or more of his personal accounts (emails, etc.) compromised and access gained to his financials. It wouldn't be very appropriate to get into the specifics of how attacks like that work on these forums but this is the type of thing that many scammers do in other games to gain accounts, currencies, and information from victims. Nothing magic about it. Personally, I wouldn't assume this Neal person was ever a legitimate player unless I knew otherwise. Besides, a massive sudden surge of disputes and charge-backs... sounds like someone just got their card back.

Edited by Magicmike
clarification for dummies :p

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21 minutes ago, Magicmike said:

 

Not magically... For all we know, some poor sap named Neal could have had one or more of his personal accounts (emails, etc.) compromised and access gained to his financials. It wouldn't be very appropriate to get into the specifics of how attacks like that work on these forums but this is the type of thing that many scammers do in other games to gain accounts, currencies, and information from victims. Nothing magic about it. Personally, I wouldn't assume this Neal person was ever a legitimate player unless I knew otherwise. Besides, a massive sudden surge of disputes and charge-backs... sounds like someone just got their card back.

 

It still doesn't make sense. If someone got hold of his account, why would they waste time buying virtual goods that surely are going to be locked down the first moment the chargebacks start? The money had to be spent to get them. So you're saying that someone got someone's charge info, stealthily over the course of months spent hundreds at a time, fingers crossed that the compromised person wasn't bothered by $100 here, $400 there all getting charged to them, racked up a bunch of Wurm accounts, weapons, armour, etc., and then swooped in for the coup de gras and charged it all back to the card? How are they getting that money that's charged back to the card? They can't. So all that work was just to have fun shopping on Wurm for a couple of months? It would have made more sense to buy a ton of electronics at once, so there was at least some tangible item gained for all the risk. This is something you can go to jail for.

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Lets not forget that paypal has already ruled once that the charges were not made from an unauthorized person/account. They investigated and found that this Neal Hicks person is the one that made the charges so since that did not work he went to his bank/cc holder and made the same claim there and that is why we have the second claim.  It is unlikely that this was any kind of hacked account or stolen CC  since Paypal has already ruled that it was not an unauthorized use once on the case already.

 

  

Edited by Kegan
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I am sorry for me coming and posting here, if you are not happy, just remove it please. No, I have nothing to do with that guy and I was lucky enough not to deal with him in game, RL, etc. 

 

I will try not to be too rude here. There are two facts: a) Your Wurm items were bought. b ) Your cash is missing.

 

Why do you care if he is a girl, boy, dad, stolen cc, footballer, president or anybody else? Why do you care if something bad, good, strange, illegal, etc. happen? Maybe if you would look into the facts and problem itself, instead of playing good detectives, case was long gone...

 

If a bus driver shouts at you, do you start thinking if he had a bad day, maybe his wife was rude to him or his kid got bad grade. You only know the fact - driver was rude, thats it.

 

Less drama in life, more problems solved, greater well -being. Good luck in your case/s.

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14 hours ago, Magicmike said:

 

Not magically... For all we know, some poor sap named Neal could have had one or more of his personal accounts (emails, etc.) compromised and access gained to his financials. It wouldn't be very appropriate to get into the specifics of how attacks like that work on these forums but this is the type of thing that many scammers do in other games to gain accounts, currencies, and information from victims. Nothing magic about it. Personally, I wouldn't assume this Neal person was ever a legitimate player unless I knew otherwise. Besides, a massive sudden surge of disputes and charge-backs... sounds like someone just got their card back.

1 - a credit card company would have blocked the card much sooner if these were unusual charges. They watch where money gets spent and take action without the owner even realising their card got stolen. ANY credit card company will do this. Since they didn't, it confirms the original card holder is not unknown to spend heaps through paypal.

 

2 - paypal ruled that there had been no third party use of the account.  I assume they do this by checking login ips and login times. The account was never logged in by a stranger.

 

 

The card/paypal info was not stolen and the owner of it appears to go on crazy paypal sprees more often. This is a guy who decided he wanted it all and then had buyers remorse, and instead of trying to get the money back by selling the items, started disputing all the payments. I doubt it's even a scam since the items were never resold, leaving him with no profits.

 

The stories people come up with, like I wrote earlier, are not helping since this thread is linked for paypal to review. The more wild ideas pop in here, the harder it is for them to determine fact from fiction.

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Shouldn't rely on what Paypal ruled as this is a matter between his Credit card company now

 

Main things you guys should do in you private thread is 

1. See if any of you guys used any authentication outside of paypal, such as ID, email, phonecall which can be easily tied to  Hicks Neal  

2. Figure out everyone that was burnt in case you guys want to sue or do debt collection

3. Also 3rd party service used between your transactions including Paypal, and CodeClub which you can probably can seek a  legal request on their logs if you guys want to purse a legal recourse

You will probably have to do it again on any IP address or phone number you believe he used to in a attempt to link it to him

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Good luck! Even in 2016 I don't think credit card companies view digital items as "real" unfortunately. I'm kind of surprised PayPal ruled in the customers' favor at first (and so quickly) - maybe it was just anti-fraud stuff.

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