Sold silver through paypal to Niru, now he disputes it

[zorako 178]

If this was truly a case of a father's paypal account used by his son without permission the account holder should report this theft to the police for criminal investigation or accept the loss to protect his son.

 

He should not be allowed to have it both ways.

[thirtynine 257]

Is there no way that we can get the players IP address submitted to Paypal to prove the validity of these transactions?

[Enki 6,940]

I would have to speak to Rolf about that, I believe it would have to be done in an official manner.  I am currently reviewing his access activity.

[thirtynine 257]

  If he thinks he's going to win this, I'll take him to court for Grand Theft as the amount stolen will be valued at nearly $10,000 USD.  Anyone effected by Niru please message me for an invite to a private message group and submit your paypal transactions in a picture.  Please include the case, amount, his name and email. 

 

  I do not promise you will get your money back.  What I do promise is that who ever Niru is, will be arrested and taken to court.  I will create a class action lawsuit against who ever this person is.  Whether they are Neil Hicks or not.  

 

At this point I really don't care if Niru closes the claims or not.  I'm just going to finish this myself.

[Niki 2,278]

 

 

I'm not a happy cat! This whole thing is a mess and I hope to god Paypal helps everyone!

 

 

[Hashirama 870]

Again, same issue like last time. He failed last time and now he is doing it all over again.
The fact that the person never logs in or responds to any of this clearly states that he is doing this purposely and this is a scam 100%

[Jaz 2,665]

If it ever helps a bit I think we are quite countless who are not personally involved but can support the case if needed that this is an existing virtual marketplace and trades are legit

 

[hankrearden 144]

I truly hope you guys get your money back.  but coming from an older guy who never could really trust this sort of thing - you need to be wary of getting real life currency from a video game.  People need to think twice about real life trading in the future.  Perhaps code club could implement a vanity shop as a release for the excess silver accumulated by the elites of wurm, and then reintroduce these coins through the kings coffer silver recycle program (ie  foraging and killing mobs).  As long as a few elites hold excess silvers there will be increased pressure for real world trading.

[enoofu 206]

Don't believe its Grand Theft, usually it would be under Theft of Service, Retail Fraud, or Some odd checking/credit card Crime

 

For example Texas, which is claimed as the Defendant Home State

/// Please Note that Laws under your State or country may apply also///////////

//// I'm also Not a Lawyer ///

Texas Penal Code § 31.04. Theft of Service

(1) Class C misdemeanor if the retail value of the item or service is less than $100;

(2) Class B misdemeanor if the retail value of the item or service is $100 or more but less than $750;

(3) Class A misdemeanor if the retail value of the item or service is $750 or more but less than $2,500;

(4) state jail felony if the retail value of the item or service is $2,500 or more but less than $30,000;

(5) felony of the third degree if the retail value of the item or service is $30,000 or more but less than

 

http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-31-04.html

[zorako 178]

I wonder if the guy's premium payment paid to Codeclub was disputed too.

[AlphaMaleAD 10]

9 hours ago, Enki said:

Hello,

 

As I affirmed earlier in this thread we did see that this individual did receive and has in his possession many if not every single item that has been mentioned to us  He has used and is using many of the received items.  We will keep an eye on this case and lock down all assets we can find.   Do keep us informed.

 

Thank you,

Enki (Head Game Master)

 

 

I understand that wurm doesn't endorse or isn't legally liable for rl trading or what have you. What I want to know is does code Club stand for its paying base by providing neutral logs of server transactions to third parties? Showing they either made trades or did not make trades between parties.

 

 

I sure as heck won't be putting money In if people can have paypal and the credit card companies dispute everything and the game owner can't or won't supply objective evidence.

 

*unaffiliated party leaves the soap box *

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

I'm running out of Likes I can perform each day due to this thread...  It's amazing how this community rallies to aid each other when it's needed.  Some of you I've known others I've only heard in name, however good luck all the same.  I hope this plays out in your favor... it certainly needs to!

[Audrel 2,223]

8 hours ago, thirtynine said:

Is there no way that we can get the players IP address submitted to Paypal to prove the validity of these transactions?

8 hours ago, Enki said:

I would have to speak to Rolf about that, I believe it would have to be done in an official manner.  I am currently reviewing his access activity.

1 hour ago, AlphaMaleAD said:

I understand that wurm doesn't endorse or isn't legally liable for rl trading or what have you. What I want to know is does code Club stand for its paying base by providing neutral logs of server transactions to third parties? Showing they either made trades or did not make trades between parties.

 

 

I sure as heck won't be putting money In if people can have paypal and the credit card companies dispute everything and the game owner can't or won't supply objective evidence.

 

*unaffiliated party leaves the soap box *

 

 

There are legal considerations for Code Club. Things can go sideways fast in the real world. I'm sure they want their ducks in a row.

 

[LorraineJ 1,099]

8 hours ago, Niki said:

 

 

I'm not a happy cat! This whole thing is a mess and I hope to god Paypal helps everyone!

 

 

Holy. Sh_t.

 

For a while I was thinking he just got carried away and made too many purchases, but by now he should have come on here and explained what happened, and tried to work it out somehow. If he suddenly realized he shouldn't have spent that much money, he should have come on and said look I messed up, I really need to re-sell these items to get as much money back as I can.

[enoofu 206]

So far these are the known parties hurt

 

Currently 15 players and around 5000 Euros

--------------------------------------------------------

Ondar 23 + 43 euro
Alyeska 625 euros
Kegan 50 dollars
Bibbidyboop 150 44 200 250 euros
GoldFever 80 euros
Hashirama 210 euros 16.50 dollars
Xallo 625 euros
Smilingcat 25 dollars
Niki ???? Probably well over 2000 dollars total 110 dollars 345 euros
JacobP sister ???? sold 3 G
Davih 20 euros
thirtynine ????
Wulfgarr 300+ Unknown currwncy
Klaa 60 Euro
Corrax ??? 1`G 1 account
 

Edited May 24, 2016 by enoofu

[Kegan 3,926]

The people that are involved have a group pm and for some reason Ondar has not been charged back like the rest of us have on the new thing. The only thing i can think of is that Niru must have used PayPal balance to pay for his items/coins and since it was with paypal only that is not on the new charge backs but this is just speculation on my part. (could also be that where he lives handles things differently with charge backs..idk) 

 

He might get added in later on but the last time he posted his was still okay.  

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Kegan

[Alyeska 2,621]

10 minutes ago, enoofu said:

So far these are the known parties hurt

 

Currently 15 players and around 5000 Euros

--------------------------------------------------------

Ondar 23 + 43 euro
Alyeska 625 euros
Kegan 50 dollars
Bibbidyboop 150 44 200 250 euros
GoldFever 80 euros
Hashirama 210 euros 16.50 dollars
Xallo 625 euros
Smilingcat 25 dollars
Niki ???? Probably well over 2000 dollars total 110 dollars 345 euros
JacobP sister ???? sold 3 G
Davih 20 euros
thirtynine ????
Wulfgarr 300+ Unknown currwncy
Klaa 60 Euro
Corrax ??? 1`G 1 account
 

 

 

Xallo and I are the same dispute case.

 

I also been told this time only the large numbers are being charged back, not the smaller ones.

 

Ours to date is 680 dollars.

[Kegan 3,926]

Mine was only $50 usd so not sure if that is true but who knows really

[fatboy 448]

thats  why i  only  trade  with those i trust,  i will never  do paypal with a  name i dont know, and if i do, best have a  few  references that  date back a  year to back you up as  this  reason right here is why im so careful about anything!

[Saicotic 116]

Many people had used paypal for years with little to no problem. I include myself in that. I am sure several people who are in the midst of this have as well. I wish everyone who is stuck dealing with this comes out of it okay. And I would ask those who are thinking about writing their loss off, to keep the pressure on because you can not let one person take advantage of the paypal system. It isn't right, and it is the account holders responsibility to protect his/her account not yours.You delt with that person under the assumption they were the account holder. It is not your fault if this turned out to be not the case. (If it is indeed the case and not just a transaction reversal scam)

[validate 598]

best thing about paypal that i kinda hated cus i needed their help . but they don't return money for virtual property, we don't own the characters, nor the goods,  Codeclub does, 

 

I had an Asheron's call account stolen back after i paid $100 for, weeks later, they said told me 2 days later they will not refund for virtual items as they are not tangable goods., from that day forward i used playersauctions as they offered protection, and they did return an FFXI account payment back to me 6 months after i bought it,it was stolen back.

 

been yrs but i doubt paypal will change it's stance on virtual goods,  Rolf could sue that guy for selling his goods after lol

[Wulfgarr 810]

Mine is total of 405€. Last time was resolved so fast couldnt react. This time its eaay tonsee because of the negative amount.
 

[enoofu 206]

The issue isn't Paypal as this is probably Chargeback fraud, also known as friendly fraud done from the Credit Card end,Paypal just processes the Credit/Debit cards for merchants

 

Sad problem is that charge backs can go at least 2 months from Credit card Bill arrival to up to a year depending on Card and local laws

 

[Ondar 136]

4 hours ago, Kegan said:

The people that are involved have a group pm and for some reason Ondar has not been charged back like the rest of us have on the new thing. The only thing i can think of is that Niru must have used PayPal balance to pay for his items/coins and since it was with paypal only that is not on the new charge backs but this is just speculation on my part. (could also be that where he lives handles things differently with charge backs..idk) 

 

He might get added in later on but the last time he posted his was still okay.  

Yeah, I was not charged back (yet?) in second round, but still I check my email with fear that there will be mail from paypal. Wish you all luck that this dispute goes again in our favor.

[Gumbo 1,563]

Sorry to hear this is still going on, hope you all win your cases. I mentioned earlier that I made 30s total from dealings with Niru. Well for me that is what is known as bad money. I don't want it, so will donate back here to the cause. Not sure how this will all work out, but when the credit card company gets involved, it's never good for online sellers. Consider the 30s a donation to any fund that gets started.

Good luck.