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Anund

Rampant cheating on WU

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WU will never be good for PVP because of the rampant cheating and mod exploiting there is. In every PVP server I've been on lately, people (maybe understandably) try their best to get an edge on others and so far that includes:

 

-Mod that lets you see untapped veins on the livemap mod

-Mod that lets you see through objects and landscape and highlights where other people and animals are

-Mod that hides trees with a command so you just see a big barren landscape and can chase people without them having a chance to hide

-Mod that lets you lock the time of day at a certain point of the day, meaning you can make it eternally day

 

There is no cheating protection on WU and GMs have no way of making these players stop, and no tools to find out wether they have them on or not. All these mods are client side, with the server having no way to make them stop. Literally all I could see GMs do is say "please don't use this". 

It just kills any will to play when you either have to go into the cheating meta or just play normally while in the back of your head you never know if the guy in front of you has all that stuff activated. When WU just came out you could just lose people by going into a forest and doing your best to leave them behind. Now you just assume they will know exactly where you are all the time with no need for Locate Soul to be casted.

 

This is pretty horrible, to be honest. These all also work on the PVE side of the story, so there might be a lot of people cheating their way there as well.

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Don't forget skill importing.. I mean, I totally have a 90+ in every skill, even pottery.  Just look at my skill dump and screenshot that's not from a WU server on my mom's 386 in the basement...

Edited by Nomadikhan

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Yeah it sucks, but a few members in the community are currently working on an anticheat. and i hear some devs aren't happy about that because its likely the WO pvp servers will end up being dumpstered afterwards simply because the community can deliver everything they want/need in a much quicker timeframe.

 

 

I don't know what the plans for the project are, but as far as i know it will be added onto some servers at least.

Edited by Propheteer
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1 hour ago, Anund said:

 

-Mod that lets you see untapped veins on the livemap mod New mod made for WU

-Mod that lets you see through objects and landscape and highlights where other people and animals are WO Convert mod to WU

-Mod that hides trees with a command so you just see a big barren landscape and can chase people without them having a chance to hide This was a mod in WO, However Rolf found a way to catch it and ban it. 

-Mod that lets you lock the time of day at a certain point of the day, meaning you can make it eternally day WO Mod & Requested mod by the community. You also forgot Season Locking btw.

 

 

Additionally you forgot Can I Walk There mod, it's VERY nice too. Helps a TON when trying to escape and are to lazy to view tile borders.

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My guess would be that you know, public servers in every game would be like that. Wurm Unlimited - in my mind - is created to have a nice fun with your IRL friends, not with random bunch of people on the internet. :) But that's may be just me. 

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46 minutes ago, akaedis said:

 

Additionally you forgot Can I Walk There mod, it's VERY nice too. Helps a TON when trying to escape and are to lazy to view tile borders.

 

The live local map has been around since 2007 and maybe before, it was cheating, not new and many have been banned for it.

The second one is the same as the first. It was cheating, not new, and people have already been banned for it.

The third one is also old, and many people have been banned for it. Not really a mod, more of a cheat.

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36 minutes ago, Propheteer said:

 

The live local map has been around since 2007 and maybe before, it was cheating, not new and many have been banned for it.

The second one is the same as the first. It was cheating, not new, and people have already been banned for it.

The third one is also old, and many people have been banned for it. Not really a mod, more of a cheat.

 

First one: Really? Interesting, I guess nobody wanted to share it with me when i asked. :(

Second one: iv only seen the highlighting of people, I haven't actually gotten the full mod itself. Well for WO anyways, i got a few beta mods like it for WU. 

Third one, Many? iirc didn't only the guy who made it get banned? 

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I like the live map because it makes it so i dont get lost.

 

I like locking time of day because when i am recording videos, no one wants to watch dark videos. Remember all of those minecraft let's plays that were horrible when the recorder was in caves and it was dark? 

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On 5/15/2016 at 9:13 AM, Anund said:

-Mod that hides trees with a command so you just see a big barren landscape and can chase people without them having a chance to hide

 

Are people running SmallTrees in 2016? That's awesome. I remember the ban waves for that.

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And this is why I don't use mods from others all code is done on my side by me. I've had 2 people meet my hammer of rath when trying to use this lol was so dam funny cause I don't use others mods and watching them log in and out and trying to get them to work was so dam funny.  Good luck all with fixing your issues nothing is worse than a dam cheater.

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23 minutes ago, Arkonick said:

And this is why I don't use mods from others all code is done on my side by me. I've had 2 people meet my hammer of rath when trying to use this lol was so dam funny cause I don't use others mods and watching them log in and out and trying to get them to work was so dam funny.  Good luck all with fixing your issues nothing is worse than a dam cheater.

 

these are all client side mods

 

they work regardless of how you have the server set up and there is currently nothing in place to detect or stop them

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1 hour ago, Arkonick said:

And this is why I don't use mods from others all code is done on my side by me. I've had 2 people meet my hammer of rath when trying to use this lol was so dam funny cause I don't use others mods and watching them log in and out and trying to get them to work was so dam funny.  Good luck all with fixing your issues nothing is worse than a dam cheater.

 

now i feel sorry for those people that were banned from your paranoia. They probably just had steam authentication errors.

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15 minutes ago, MootRed said:

 

now i feel sorry for those people that were banned from your paranoia. They probably just had steam authentication errors.

nope I have my ways of seeing what they are doing these people where not having auth issues.

Not to mention if it wasn't you someone was using your name and mrgary and som other names under same ip they got banned so if it was you moot. If you never been on my server moot you be happy to know that person is not pretending to be you or MrGary on my server.

Edited by Arkonick

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50 minutes ago, Arkonick said:

nope I have my ways of seeing what they are doing these people where not having auth issues.

Not to mention if it wasn't you someone was using your name and mrgary and som other names under same ip they got banned so if it was you moot. If you never been on my server moot you be happy to know that person is not pretending to be you or MrGary on my server.

 

to detect client side mods would require a mod to be installed both client and server side, working together. you did not release anything of the sort, and so you have no way of knowing if your clients were using mods. if you did write some sort of client validation, please do share because then i dont need to put in the effort working on mine

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3 hours ago, Arkonick said:

nope I have my ways of seeing what they are doing these people where not having auth issues.

 

 

i really don't think you have accomplished that.

 

Edited by Propheteer

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On 5/15/2016 at 8:06 PM, nekoexmachina said:

My guess would be that you know, public servers in every game would be like that. Wurm Unlimited - in my mind - is created to have a nice fun with your IRL friends, not with random bunch of people on the internet. :) But that's may be just me. 

Yeah, for real fun and serious game, use official servers and WO :):P

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6 hours ago, Arkonick said:

And this is why I don't use mods from others all code is done on my side by me. I've had 2 people meet my hammer of rath when trying to use this lol was so dam funny cause I don't use others mods and watching them log in and out and trying to get them to work was so dam funny.  Good luck all with fixing your issues nothing is worse than a dam cheater.

 

Here is the answer to this problem, not necessarily to not use any mods on a WU server but that it is up to the server owner to deal with mods that they find to be undesirable.

 

If someone creates a WU pvp server that restricts similar mods as mentioned within the OP then I would imagine that it would be a pretty popular one with pvp players. Since this is so obvious I would also imagine that this is already a policy that is being pursued by some server owners with that end goal in mind. I also don't see any problem with those server owners who could care less about this issue either.

 

Variety of choices that WO never will provide to anywhere near this extent is what makes Wurm Unlimited clearly superior, when options for different playstyles of the same basic game of Wurm are provided. The bad idea is an attempt to stifle these options if they don't suit particular individuals. Better to just go to another server as there are plenty of them available. Basically a non-issue here.

 

=Ayes=

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We have installed version 1 of an anti-cheat mod on Desolation. Without going into detail it basically focuses on the client as an unsafe/untrusted thing that uses the data provided while the server is the protected, safe provider of data. The server decides what data the client can have. 

 

This reduces things like being able to see mine veins that haven't been revealed, treasure chests from a long distance etc.

 

Still lots to do however we have a working model in production on Desolation.

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Please tell me more about how you intend to control how the player's graphics card renders OpenGL objects. Among many other things.

Edited by Chakron

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I didn't say we have a complete solution, we don't. We have the start of a solution that leverages the server to control the data the client receives. 

 

This kind of thing doesn't control client side things if the client is what controls that area. A good example appears to be tree collisions. It's controlled by the client so our server side stuff is unlikely to handle that.

 

It's apparent the best approach to this kind of thing would be a "defence in depth" type situation where parts of the anti-cheat solution involve the server, the communication stream, the client and gameplay elements that work to remove the advantages that a way of playing would have. An example of gameplay element is speeding up skill and characteristics gain so that the advantage that comes from macroing is fleeting at best. 

 

Of course as the anti-cheats are developed the cheats themselves will also likely evolve.

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Wasn't meant as an attack on you, sorry. There are just unfortunate holes in Wurm that can give players advantages and can be hard to solve. One of the reasons why I never got into PvP.

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I didn't think you were attacking me. I thought you raised really good points and it seemed like a good opportunity to mention that while we took a step forward today, it's not a short road. There are lots of things that need to be done before we have a solution that makes the game a lot more fair for all players, especially in PVP.

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17 hours ago, Arkonick said:

nope I have my ways of seeing what they are doing these people where not having auth issues.

Not to mention if it wasn't you someone was using your name and mrgary and som other names under same ip they got banned so if it was you moot. If you never been on my server moot you be happy to know that person is not pretending to be you or MrGary on my server.

 

-sigh-

the signs of being famous!

 

what were they doing? Like, hacking and stuff?

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1 hour ago, MootRed said:

 

-sigh-

the signs of being famous!

 

what were they doing? Like, hacking and stuff?

What they where doing and how I track them is something I will keep private for specific security reasons.

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