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thunderclown

Transform the meaning of a town in Wurm

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A friend who's relatively new to wurm expressed a feeling he had about the way towns in wurm don't function like towns in other games or RL.  He observed that players just build things around them and basically play by themselves mostly.  This is basically true.  We'll come together to complete a joint project, but then we go back to our private domain and exist there.

 

Today, I was in a chat talking about starter towns, and I was trying to explain why I thought Esert is a weird place.  It's because it has open space and occasional buildings.  It should have a built-up street.  And then I wondered what buildings a street would have to make it feel like a town on at the frontier of great adventures, and I thought about other games.

 

Other games of this ilk tend to have taverns and guild houses and temples with NPCs in them, and you'd visit those to learn, advance, and to find lucrative/rewarding work.  Aspects of this would work beautifully in Wurm.  Wurm already has missions.  If those missions were connected to physical buildings and NPCs in them, it would get people out of their silos, promote greater travel and exploration (to see what new mission can be found at a different town), and would make towns in themselves more meaningful to new and old players alike.

 

The current system of pulling missions out of a HUD window break immersion.  Having to visit an 'official' temple to learn about god A's  latest whim in a personal mission would be great, as would meeting a farmer npc in a tavern and agreeing to supply x number of y item of z quality.   This mechanic would get more people out and about, interacting and making the streets of Wurm more alive and buzzing.  Missions could be cross server, and even include risky ones to Chaos maybe (take a priority message to someone, maybe)

 

I have no idea how the economy of Wurm works, so I'm not going to suggest how mission would be rewarded, but any non-religious (or non meditation path... - why can't there be Schools of Path X for meditation to rival the temples and guilds?) needs a more concrete reward than sleep bonus.

 

Someone must have suggested this before, but a quick search didn't show me anything like it.

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The reason no one has suggested this before is because it will never happen. Wurm is not like most games. It is not built based off of a class system. The missions in game are optional and not necessary to advance in Wurm therefor no mission should be necessary to advance in Wurm (ie. what you are suggesting). 

 

Although this does seem like an interesting idea I am just not sure it is something that should belong in Wurm. Wurm is about survival and building your own little piece of haven. Therefore, that is why we go off and built our own little things, because that is what the game is about. 

 

A lot of people have said before that "Oh, but WoW has a class system and WoW is like Wurm, therefore Wurm should have a class system". Well I have one thing to tell you. Wurm is not WoW. Wurm is a game in and of its own and there really is no game to compare it will. Some people compare it it to say Ultima Online only for the use of explaining it to other people. I my self have never played UO however I have seen pictures and video of game play and yes it does have the same concept however there is no comparing the two. Wurm is 3D UO is not. Wurm has no class system and is a true sandbox UO does have a class system (I think as I said I never played it). But as they say, each game to their own. 

 

This is just my two cents on this suggesting. A lot of people recently since WU came out and WO has been getting more out there, have been suggesting things like this. Things like changing essential mechanics that have been around since gold in 2006 based off the notion that games like this one tend to have this thing. Like I said above Wurm cannot be lumped in with "games of the like". 

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While I certainly agree with Zach that Wurm has never been the typical mmo experience, I would like to point out one interesting suggestion you (OP) made.  I kinda like the idea of having to "find out" what missions are active instead of just seeing them in the missions log with the utmost ease.  This doesn't mean it should be NPC related, but it could certainly be prayer/altar related.  Let's say missions still become active to you if you perform the action required in said mission; however, that mission wouldn't have pertinent and observable information for you if you (or someone else) hasn't prayed at an altar to receive such divine command.  Let's say you follow Fo (does anyone?) and you pray at a Fo altar.  After you finish your prayer you are given command as to what Fo expects from you.  You would then have "unlocked" the information pertaining to what the current Fo mission is.  Let's say another follower is loyal to Nahjo and wants to do the easy Fo mission for sleep bonus and karma, but doesn't have the information revealed to them in the missions log because they don't follow Fo and have not prayed to Fo; the Fo follower who has prayed and received command could just relay that information to the Nahjo follower, and the Nahjo follower could start the mission (just like you would currently) by following it's instruction (sacrifice a decent cloth boot for example).  Also, in this suggestion, just because one Fo follower prays at an altar and receives command doesn't mean all Fo followers would also receive that command without praying at their altar as well.  While this wouldn't be a huge change it would certainly add a little more immersion and cooperation among players.  Something to ponder.

Edited by Slickshot
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I think I liked about ESO that I wish Wurm had, which the OP points out, is a form of crafting missions at each starter town.

 

It was very enjoyable to fulfill the guild crafting quests every day or two and get a small reward for doing so. These could level up in difficulty, and eventually reward you with better rewards.

 

There's many other aspects of ESO I wish Wurm had as well, but that would be one of the larger ones that I miss. :)

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5 hours ago, thunderclown said:

A friend who's relatively new to wurm expressed a feeling he had about the way towns in wurm don't function like towns in other games or RL.  He observed that players just build things around them and basically play by themselves mostly.  This is basically true.  We'll come together to complete a joint project, but then we go back to our private domain and exist there.

 

As everything is player driven in Wurm that is indeed the case, though its worth noting two things.

 

Way back before the current deed system was implemented starting a town was a big deal, a real big deal. For a size 10 deed you had to invest a gold, even a size 5 cost 25 silver. Anything bigger and you were talking serious coinage. This meant there were far fewer deeded villages and more of the player base was focussed into them. Villages were busy places.

 

The second is that on the PvP maps its a matter of survival to group up in deeds. If the population were higher we might get some more deeds being planted but I'd expect to see most of the additional population congregate in existing deeds. Again group villages are the focal point of play.

 

We already have quests, find a player with a need and he'll say something like "I'll pay you one shiny silver coin for every thousand dirt you dig for me" (no idea of current rates btw). Its even better than the ESO quests as quite often they'll tell you where to dig, where to store it, offer you free meals while you do it and possibly even a bed so you can gain sleep bonus.  Lets the the NPCs in ESO top that!

 

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6 hours ago, thunderclown said:

A friend who's relatively new to wurm expressed a feeling he had about the way towns in wurm don't function like towns in other games or RL.  He observed that players just build things around them and basically play by themselves mostly.  This is basically true.  We'll come together to complete a joint project, but then we go back to our private domain and exist there.

 

Today, I was in a chat talking about starter towns, and I was trying to explain why I thought Esert is a weird place.  It's because it has open space and occasional buildings.  It should have a built-up street.  And then I wondered what buildings a street would have to make it feel like a town on at the frontier of great adventures, and I thought about other games.

 

Other games of this ilk tend to have taverns and guild houses and temples with NPCs in them, and you'd visit those to learn, advance, and to find lucrative/rewarding work.  Aspects of this would work beautifully in Wurm.  Wurm already has missions.  If those missions were connected to physical buildings and NPCs in them, it would get people out of their silos, promote greater travel and exploration (to see what new mission can be found at a different town), and would make towns in themselves more meaningful to new and old players alike.

 

The current system of pulling missions out of a HUD window break immersion.  Having to visit an 'official' temple to learn about god A's  latest whim in a personal mission would be great, as would meeting a farmer npc in a tavern and agreeing to supply x number of y item of z quality.   This mechanic would get more people out and about, interacting and making the streets of Wurm more alive and buzzing.  Missions could be cross server, and even include risky ones to Chaos maybe (take a priority message to someone, maybe)

 

I have no idea how the economy of Wurm works, so I'm not going to suggest how mission would be rewarded, but any non-religious (or non meditation path... - why can't there be Schools of Path X for meditation to rival the temples and guilds?) needs a more concrete reward than sleep bonus.

 

Someone must have suggested this before, but a quick search didn't show me anything like it.

 

In deference to the OP, 

 

I would fully support a system where a priest could pray at an altar and receive the mission of the day.  He would then share that "divine charge" with others of the faith via Preaching via confession or to a group.  Now as the religious leaders of their respective communities they would gain a reward each time their followers helped contribute to the divine mission. 

 

As far as towns and how they work, there is missing in this game a "robust" real estate system.  There is no system to purchase a large amount of land for a town and then subdivide it and sell the rights to certain parcels to individuals.  This basic real estate, really.   I lay down the cash for a deed that's 200 tiles in each direction, I lay down streets and sell off sub-parcels of land.  The tenants are responsible for their tiles and a communal tax which can be a set rate or an automatic rate.  They are then free to set up all they want on their piece, and then can help with community projects as they own part of their town without having to OWN the town or be at the mercy of another person or group.

 

Wurm seems to have issues with NPC's period.  I don't know if they will make anymore, and they've already shut down traders.  So unless there is a merchant re-vamp, don't expect much.

 

On a side note; crash course in wurm merchants.  they host 40 singular items, that all must be priced individually so no bulk selling.  no way to view what a merchant has without speaking to them personally.  That's about it.

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No NPCs or arbitrary "quests" beyond what's already there, please. Wurm Online is almost entirely player-driven and should stay that way.

 

That said, we really do need more incentive to group up and live in real villages rather than our own little independent one-person hermitages. I'm just not sure what kind of incentive makes sense.

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Wurm online is a sandbox game.  If people want to live together and create grand deeds, that is their option.  The incentive is the ability to have help building that grand deed.  The people that like living on their own deeds should not have any thing that hinders that.  The only benefit from living in a large village is the companionship.  The fact that you have more people working towards one goal will automatically make that happen faster.  No need for anything else. 

 

Anything that drives people away simply because you want to force people into large villages is a bad thing.

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2 hours ago, Ostentatio said:

No NPCs or arbitrary "quests" beyond what's already there, please. Wurm Online is almost entirely player-driven and should stay that way.

 

That said, we really do need more incentive to group up and live in real villages rather than our own little independent one-person hermitages. I'm just not sure what kind of incentive makes sense.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Wurm online is a sandbox game.  If people want to live together and create grand deeds, that is their option.  The incentive is the ability to have help building that grand deed.  The people that like living on their own deeds should not have any thing that hinders that.  The only benefit from living in a large village is the companionship.  The fact that you have more people working towards one goal will automatically make that happen faster.  No need for anything else. 

 

Anything that drives people away simply because you want to force people into large villages is a bad thing.

 

First off in the OP the items that are being spoken about are simply aspects in the game that are given in the most immersion breaking manner.  If you looked at my post on this topic I suggested a possible method for immersion purposes. Regarding religious assignments being distributed via priests via preaching and confession.

 

The reason people group up is because of incentive, that's it.  Right now you CANNOT place one deed next to another, which limits neighborhoods, additionally there is no real means of community control and private control together.  Thus  cities are very, very hard to coordinate.  1 person owns it, but it's either dictatorship or democracy, there is no happy medium.  

 

There is no option for a Land Owners council. So players who are invested in the city are granted small parts (ie: Buildings, fields and such) and they have a voice.  Secondly there is no real effective way to "Rent" a place.  How can i move into a city and risk getting kicked out at any moment?  Thus losing all of my stuff indirectly; this is separate of the fact that the owner could steal anything of mine at any point.

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I am sure there are some deed owners that are not the nicest of people.  Just like i know there are many more that are.  I have only heard of a few instances where someone was kicked out of a town and not allowed to retrieve their items.  If they submitted a ticket and were returned items is not something I know.  I have seen several big towns work very well over the years.  They do work together and sometimes work on their own things.  Immersion is something that I think each person looks at differently.  Large towns are not what some people like.  If you do, there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from joining one or creating one.

 

You cannot place one deed directly next to each other because some people would use that to block off entire areas of land.  While I'm sure that is not what you are thinking of.  I know that others would. 

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Gonna +1 this just because the current mission system makes little sense on Freedom anyway.
 We BLEED new players. 
I love Wurm the way it is, but a few small changes to get new players hooked is not going to hurt.  I get the "Not a typical MMO" argument, I've made it myself a few times.  But being different is really not helping.  
Looking at what works in other games doesn't mean Wurm at it's core has to change. 

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13 minutes ago, Greyfox said:

Gonna +1 this just because the current mission system makes little sense on Freedom anyway.
 We BLEED new players. 
I love Wurm the way it is, but a few small changes to get new players hooked is not going to hurt.  I get the "Not a typical MMO" argument, I've made it myself a few times.  But being different is really not helping.  
Looking at what works in other games doesn't mean Wurm at it's core has to change. 

 

I agree and one of the major hindrances is a decent merchant trade system.  People come to wurm after playing MMO's that have globally linked insta-markets.  The least we could do is try to integrate all the merchants on a given deed.

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I'm not advocating a class system, and I've never played WoW.  Nor am I suggesting we all live in towns: we are farmers and mini-industrialists, and there's no physical room for that activity inside a town.

 

Wurm already has what it calls "Starter Towns", but which are not towns at all.  We could change that at the same time as increasing immersion and hooking new players.  I guess that priest missions can be made more immersive without needing a town, but why should the priests get to escape the hardship of pilgrimage to their spiritual centre in the town?  Consider the Lights on Chaos.  Wurmians need to travel to specific Lights on Chaos to complete certain spiritual tasks.  So, we already have a game mechanic that means you can’t just sit in your deed and have everything you want.

 

Life can be breathed into towns initially, by changing how missions are handed out, and by adding a new kind of crafting or return-with-an-item mission - because why should religious types have all the fun?  (Am I the only one who shuns the missions because they are religious?)

 

The deeds that we all have are _not_ sandboxed and separate, but they don't make a whole, either.  If a town was instituted that had a functional relationship to us in our deeds and the activities we choose to do, then the game would bind together - our deeds would have a richer context.  And I do think that NPC missions would come from town - because Wurm should be hard.

 

Look at deed upkeep – why not call it Land Tax and make us pay it in a town?  We already pay upkeep, but we pay it “outside of the simulation”; we could have it inside the game as a land tax.  Boom! Now Wurm has a societal context, something that makes it more social and more like the world as we’d expect it to be, and we haven’t lost a thing.

 

I would like to see two or three towns per map as regional centres that would encourage a certain sort of player to travel more, and everyone to travel a little.  Another reason, is that for a change in dynamic like this, it would be good to spread the love across the server; too many servers have dead zones that don't see much activity, and the people there can get a bit lonely ;-)

 

This is just brainstorming / blue-sky thinking.

 

For the record, I've been playing Wurm on and off since 2010, and I do not play the new Steam version because I consider WO to be the 'real' Wurm and I'm not looking for shortcuts to advancement, and I'm happy to pay my toon premiums with RL money.

 

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First off I don't do missions and I am sort of the opinion that most players don't. I like to choose my own activities within the game on my own timeframe and find the game very well suited to this option without any need for "lures" to attract me to group activities. The game on the whole is not designed to force anyone to play as a group but simply offers that option. This is a good game design in that it offers mainly options which do not exclude others from enjoying playing the game on their own terms.

 

With this in mind, I find any exclusionary benefits focused upon group activities or restricted locations based upon personal preferences for group activity by a "suggester" to be a subtle assault on individual player choices. This is why those FF guys always got on my nerves with their vids commenting upon how the game should be redesigned according to their image of community participation to receive additional benefits unavailable on an individual basis.

 

One of the beauties of this game is that the individual who does no harm to others can prosper just upon their own merits and take pride in being self-sufficient. I would hate to see this denuded by those who believe that community interaction and those who participate within it are superior in some way to those who have little interest in it. Perhaps individualism and self reliance is a hard concept for most to grasp but that it can be found by those seeking it within this game is a good thing, at least for them anyway.

 

Maybe I went off the deep end a bit above but another thing to consider is that "Towns" (yea, Starter Towns) are far away from where most players on the servers live. With the very slow means of travel within this game, even the poorest of horses within BDO travel at lightning speeds in comparison, this means taking the time to get there would hardly make it worthwhile for most players who have their own objectives on how to spend their time within the game. This means that Town activities would need to have benefits far superior to others to draw players to them, which again seems not the best idea since it naturally puts the time impediments of distant player homesteads into the equation. Translation: most won't bother with these Town lures due to travel distance, whatever they might be.

 

Basically there is no way to make players participate in group activities if they are not of that mindset. Yet there is still a way to enable more group interaction by making the gathering places so easy to get to that some of the even more individualistic players will pop over at times just to see what is going on. Not to mention many more who actually have a preference for this, but yea, I just did. This can easily be done with at least a portal system similar to Epic's that players can build on their own deeds that will be restricted to portaling them back and forth to the Starter Towns.

 

Unfortunately Wurm is resistant to this concept, other than for encouraging pvp, and this is its real downfall concerning Starter Towns being the hub of community interaction and events. The game only enforces isolationism with this restriction concerning Starter Towns (portal travel to them) even for those whose preference is to enjoy interacting with others. Have it your way though BigMac, since nowadays I am eating mostly elsewhere.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

 

 

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Another reason that towns and starter towns fail is because there is no real estate market.    There is no pricing difference between the space right outside a starter town and somewhere In the wilderness or up on a mountain top.

 

should there be an incentive at being at a major hub?

 

shouldnt it be cheaper to have a deed in the wilds?  The server counts it all the same.

 

thoughts anyone?

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Ayes, I think you should read my second post...  And also the ideas from others about getting personalised mission (I don't like that word) invitations when praying or something.  Edit - I just realised I missed the bit about portals to towns...  In case anyone thinks I'm tacitly in favour of that, I am explicitly not!  Wurm is risk and work, and shortcuts are not for us.

 

 

Wurm Online is the MMORPG where the players are in charge! Developed around the idea of player influence, it remains one of the only Sandbox MMOs worthy of the term.

Whether you enjoy conquering kingdoms, building your home or hunting dragons, Wurm will let you.

Explore the world and make your mark!

 

Nothing I suggest detracts from the above.  The game already has all the ingredients; they're just not organised in as engaging, interesting, balanced, comprehensible way as they could be!

Edited by thunderclown
more portals?!?! noooo!

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Looking at your post some of the ideas could take a new meaning.  If there was a way that a town could give a mission for anyone to take and complete and return to that town for some sort of prize(meaning that someone from that deed is giving the prize).  That I can't see anyone having an issue with.  The issue I have is that people are wanting it to be something from the game that makes that town worth more than someone else's town on the sole reason that they have more members.  That is where I have the issue.

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5 hours ago, thunderclown said:

Ayes, I think you should read my second post...  And also the ideas from others about getting personalised mission (I don't like that word) invitations when praying or something.  Edit - I just realised I missed the bit about portals to towns...  In case anyone thinks I'm tacitly in favour of that, I am explicitly not!  Wurm is risk and work, and shortcuts are not for us.

 

 

Wurm Online is the MMORPG where the players are in charge! Developed around the idea of player influence, it remains one of the only Sandbox MMOs worthy of the term.

Whether you enjoy conquering kingdoms, building your home or hunting dragons, Wurm will let you.

Explore the world and make your mark!

 

Nothing I suggest detracts from the above.  The game already has all the ingredients; they're just not organised in as engaging, interesting, balanced, comprehensible way as they could be!

 

What could be done very nice is taking an idea that Xsyolla has with a tribe totem.  This is quite like a bulletin board that would allow people to turn in objects for a reward to a town token or other object.  The tasks, or quests would be set up by the deed owner, or maybe even citizens.

 

A quest is for an item or items, has a time limit, and a reward listed.  Could be a very powerful change to wurm online.

Edited by Tallios
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Id be more for a system powered by players.

 

For example players setting quests for others to complete.

 

Basically an offline means of encouraging trade: make 20 planks within a certain avg ql and wood type (if desired) for such and such coin or whatever in exchange. Though this can be more of an enhancement to player merchants. Some suggestions have had NPC warehouse keepers linked to bins.

 

Also having more ingame means of communication, especially offline: village bulletin boards - help wanted, todo, ads, etc. Cheaper mail costs for papyrus.

 

EDIT: Help in clearing dangerous critters whether too weak or cant be bothered. Bounties on critters or players (though bounties collecting on themselves is an old abuse of such systems). Whatever

Edited by Klaa
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If starter towns are to be made important for group activities and missions then it must first be made easier for people to travel to said towns. Depending on where you live it can take hours (which for some people is all the time they have for gaming on an average day) to travel from their deed to such a starter town. So at that point you'd pretty much need to add a portal to each starting town and then allow a deed owner to build a portal on their deed. Only members of a deed could then use said portal, either to travel to the starter deed or to return to their own deed. To prevent abuse an extra requirement could be added, for example that the portal only works if you've been a member of said village for at least 1 week. The disadvantage is that you cannot take an animal with you, but it would certainly help bring people closer together (if they want to).

 

Once such a system is in place it's no problem to ask people to visit certain buildings/altars/npcs in starter towns in order to receive missions as they can simply hop through their portal and then they're in said town. Since they can't bring animals, travel to other villages would still be slow and time consuming unless they are really close to a starter town, so it also doesn't make current methods of travel redundant, instead it's complementary with them.

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i live in a town with 8 other people each have their own plot with a house and yard, their are community farms, a storage house and smelters but other then that everyone builds for themselves in the town.

 

So that does exist in Wurm

the whole idea of this game to me is that all the things you are talking about except NPC's are already possible, but you need to do it yourselves. That's the beauty of Wurm.

 

Also i think the rifts that are coming is Wurm's way of giving you content that requires more people

other content that requires more people is just the size of projects. i could have made the highway to our deed alone. but would have taken me way longer and its more fun to make those kind of projects together.

you want more community. organise it. Don't ask the game to do it for you, that is not Wurm. IMHO

 

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ecrir: if this happened, I'd like to see 2 or 3 more (starter) towns appear on each server.

elroth: timezones kill immersion and interaction in this game.  It's a strange place we have here, where neighbours are half a world away and often barely see each other.

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