Frosty

Auctions ending prematurly

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So, I've been following the trades quite a bit and there is a trend lately, for people to accept hidden BO offers, before the auction ends.  The person holding the auction simply lists:  "Buyout - make me an offer" and now the entire auction is nothing more than a WTS thread. 

 

I would like to see some real structure to auctions, to try bringing back the original feel they had.  What is the point of even bidding, when you know someone can secretly make an offer and the seller can simply accept and close the thread?  This is not what an auction is supposed to be.

 

I propose we set some hard rules for auctions and enforce them by giving issuing warnings to people that break policy.  After a couple warnings, they simply are banned from using the auction area of forums. 

 

WTS can certainly have loose guidelines, like "I want 500e for my character and I'll decide in a week", but then not decide in a week.  WTS is the wild west of sales.  Auctions need to be a bit more regulated, to restore peoples confidence in the bidding process.  If ebay operated like this, it would never have made a dime.

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I just don't bid on auctions that allow for private bids. Trust no one!

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I would love to have it more regulated, but i don't think it'll ever happen. Try to bid on fair auctions that do not have reserves or strings attached, the seller will eventually realize he or she isn't going to sell. They will give up or try again with less restrictions.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

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I agree, no point in auctions in curent state. Who can gurantie that all those private buyouts aren't made of just so that players don't have to sell cheap if bidding doesn't go as supposed, also a lot of players auctioning under false accounts and then don't fulfill their part of the deal if won price is too low... We need better system, maybe even ingame system, like in World of Warcraft or something like that

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Just now, kochinac said:

I agree, no point in auctions in curent state. Who can gurantie that all those private buyouts aren't made of just so that players don't have to sell cheap if bidding doesn't go as supposed, also a lot of players auctioning under false accounts and then don't fulfill their part of the deal if won price is too low... We need better system, maybe even ingame system, like in World of Warcraft or something like that

That's very true, there is a certain place in hell for those players that do that. Forum mods shouldn't allow that either, that's called shill bidding and it's totally not cool. That's something that should be in the Rules though seriously!

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Really good points made so far in this post, that I hadn't really considered in the few auctions I've made in my time playing. I'll be changing the way I do them in future, and what I bid on, thank you

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I asked about something like this (shill bidding), at that point the LFM iirc told me that there was nothing to prevent this behavior. I don't bid on anything where I don't know the party selling and believe that they will sell to me if I win. Would be nice to have a real auction set up indeed :)

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Could easily list an auction format in a sticky, something like this:

 

Copy and paste the below when creating an auction post:

 

Auctioning the following: ________

Starting bid: ________

Minimum increments: ________

Is there a reserve? yes / no

If a reserve, what is it? (must be posted, no hidden reserves allowed)

Is there a buyout? yes / no

If a buyout, what is it?  (must be posted, no hidden buyouts)

Private bids are not allowed

Bids by another party are not allowed.  If you bid for a friend, then you must complete the transaction with the OP, then trade the goods to your friend.

"Auction timer here"

"Links to goods here"

"Pics here"

 

or something like this.

 

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I always have good luck with getting buyout on my auctions but i do list the buyout price on mine too. I list the buyout as what i think the item is worth and then lower it by a few bids for starting price.  I am not sure why but auctions seem to do better then just a sales thread i have had items listed for a week in the sales section with no luck and then move it over to an auction with the same buyout price offered in the sales thread and it is sold almost instantly. 

 

I do like the idea of having an in-game auction house set up but they have already said once that it was to much work. Maybe with all the new staff they can figure something out when they get all the current projects done.  

Edited by Kegan

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4 minutes ago, Kegan said:

 I am not sure why but auctions seem to do better then just a sales thread i have had items listed for a week in the sales section with no luck and then move it over to an auction with the same buyout price offered in the sales thread and it is sold almost instantly. 

 

 

I think a lot of people simply enjoy auctions, the sense of competition and excitement perhaps in some way makes the items themselves more desirable to the potential buyer too. All the more reason to protect them and make sure they are conducted fairly and honestly

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I like using "make me an offer" buyout in case someone is really, really interested in the item and wants to pay now for it - maybe more than I would've set the buyout at myself. Some people simply want it NOW without waiting and possibly missing the end of the auction (perhaps its at 2 am for them) and I don't mind catering for that. It has happened a few times and it's the reason I include the option when I make an auction. If someone doesn't trust me with that it's their right to not bid on the auction, of course, I won't condemn them for that, but it gives an idea as to why.

 

There's a couple things I'm more concerned about, though, like people simply not honoring their deals or ignoring bids altogether, false private bids or extending auctions when they want to. Some more smoothened out ingame sales system that includes an oversight of (public) merchants on the server and their stock & prices (think village recruitment board style), and an ingame auction house would be helpful, but you can only dream...

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Auctions are more exciting and there is a sense of "I win!" that you don't get when just buying from the WTS area.  Auctions just aren't any fun anymore here.  WTS has been turning into a merchant section, with people listing 20 plus items at a shot.  Chaos is winning (not the pvp group).

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I don't think it really matters, even if there would be some rules enforced on that, people would just go like "i lost the item" and sell it to the secret bidder. It's their auction, they choose how they want to do it.

Now, an ingame auction house might actually be something that can solve that. Other than that, escrow auctions maybe? That would need some trustworthy person to organize and people that will want to use it.

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I think a lot of good points have been raised in this discussion and I guess I never thought about the way auctions works. I have only done like 2 auctions in the years that I have been playing. I knew there was some bad thoughts around auctions just not what they were. I will definitely change the way I do auctions and keep in mind what I am bidding on. 

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I sincerely hope those of you who are awful at creating and running auctions continue to do so.

 

Your inability to function, makes my auctions much more spectacular, making me look good in comparison.

 

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13 hours ago, Dairuka said:

I sincerely hope those of you who are awful at creating and running auctions continue to do so.

 

Your inability to function, makes my auctions much more spectacular, making me look good in comparison.

 

I don't recall seeing any of your auctions tho... ;)

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6 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I don't recall seeing any of your auctions tho... ;)

They weren't memorable you say?

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IDK if I agree with these sentiments, partly because I don't like to publicize what I pay for things, so I like to be able to buy out privately. Also, although I've never sold a character or fancy item, I think I'd be bummed if I was hoping for a certain price and the auction didn't go that high.

 

I know I've had shill bidders rise up prices on stuff I've bid on at eBay, but at a certain point I just figure "keep it." On eBay that means they have to pay for another listing if everyone bails. On here I think people would notice the same exact character up for sale, or the same exact special item.

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I agree with the OP. An auction is an auction, not a WTS. I always explicitly exclude private offers and buyout from my own auctions and I do not bid on auctions that allow for this kind of thing.

 

I've been asked in PMs multiple times to privately sell an item I was running an auction for, and I always politely refused. It would just be unfair to the regular bidders.

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13 hours ago, Frosty said:

I don't recall seeing any of your auctions tho... ;)

 

Yeah, sold two batteries for 45s and 68s respectively. One of them even turned into a meme competition. Good times.

 

Considering you didn't join until December 2015, that might be why.

Edited by Dairuka

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As the seller is the owner of the item, he can ultimately do whatever he wants with it.

 

As a buyer/bidder you can choose to participate in the auction or not to, depending on the conditions. If enough people stop participating in auctions with unreasonable terms (for some value of "unreasonable") - the sellers will have to adopt, as it would mean lost profits to them.

 

I don't think this this needs any kind of external regulation. If you impose too much limits on the forums - they will just move elsewhere.

Edited by bdew

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Frosty, Some time ago there was some discussion about auctions along this line. Basically what it amounts to is that there is no regulation concerning them on this forum whereby the person who creates the auction is required to either list a price (secret buyout) or even committed to sell then item at any price at all. Because of this, if an individual decides they are not getting enough coins for the items from the bidding they can simply state that a private buyout has been made. There is no way to prove if this is true or not, nor is it even necessary here.

 

The above is just one tactic for the auctioneer to secretly opt out of the sale, others not being worth going into. Something along the lines of other in-game auctions needs to be done whereby the item is held until expiration of the auction timer. Then a buyout price could also be set for immediate purchase of the item but the auction system would need to receive the coins in order to close the auction prematurely. Real legitimate auctions are either automated systems like this or run by a licensed third party who acts as an intermediary that holds the item and disperses the funds once it is sold.

 

Wurm forum auctions are just the hands off way for the game to disassociate itself with any responsibility for how things turn out. Also this saves the game from needing to setup any in-game auction system, which would probably be a time consuming and costly endeavor. This is not WoW or BDO with their vastly superior resources and paid employees. On tha cheap and this is the best you will get, which then totally depends upon player honesty in doing the right thing. You can see how that works out in other ways within the game to predict how some creative thinking will be employed when making the most coins is one's main concern.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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