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icbash

The Bitter Pill.

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Icbash, I sincerely hope the GMs are assisting fully, though in truth you are likely going to have to suck it up and 'deal with it'. :/

Edited by aamanus

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38 minutes ago, LorraineJ said:

 

So when what's happened to us happens to you, you're going to just drop all of the time and money you've invested and go, with no feedback or efforts to fix it? I suppose that's one reaction.

Not saying that I agree with what Marlon is saying, but there are sometimes alternative routes or choices to make.  For example, I've been griefed twice by the same person.  I reported this in game of course.  Moderation didn't ban the player as they maybe should have, but I didn't come to the forums to complain about it either.  In fact the only instance of that situation coming to the forums was when the griefing party's friends made threads about it to trash talk me and the moderators in public.  The reason I don't put names here is because that isn't important to the example.  The overall point is I took the situation a different route, even though justice was not had.  Everyone must choose their own path, that's for certain, but the choice is definitely yours and yours alone.

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12 hours ago, Slickshot said:

Not saying that I agree with what Marlon is saying, but there are sometimes alternative routes or choices to make.  For example, I've been griefed twice by the same person.  I reported this in game of course.  Moderation didn't ban the player as they maybe should have, but I didn't come to the forums to complain about it either.  In fact the only instance of that situation coming to the forums was when the griefing party's friends made threads about it to trash talk me and the moderators in public.  The reason I don't put names here is because that isn't important to the example.  The overall point is I took the situation a different route, even though justice was not had.  Everyone must choose their own path, that's for certain, but the choice is definitely yours and yours alone.

 

But you say right in your post, the path you chose got nothing done. What happened to you is not rare. And people don't realize it until it happens to them. The griefing is bad enough, but when an official of the game either compounds it or allows it knowingly, it makes it much worse. I'm telling you, Code Club in many instances does not know it's happening.

 

Some of these recent threads really outraged me because I didn't know these exact people were up to this kind of thing. For one of them, he had spoken to me in reference to buying some of my rare scattered items. Before I had a chance to gather them up and organize getting them to him, I got very busy in RL and forgot to do it. I just recently remembered I was going to take care of this, and I felt like a turd for forgetting, and I was going to gather them all up and give them to him for free. So it would have been items, plus the time wasted to coordinate it, in order to give to a fraud and thief. In the other case, the person wanted me to have my Fo priest go over to another server to take traits off his animals. I don't really even know this person. People who know me know that I almost never go off my server - I've only done it twice. But he was pressing me to do this, and I know how much I hated having bad traits on my animals before I could cure them, so if it had been coordinated, it would have been MANY hours of my time spent traveling back and forth over servers, plus 1/2 hour each for the traits. For a person I barely know who's been treating other players horribly.

 

Keeping wrong acts secret helps no one.

 

 

 

 

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Reading why people leave for WU, pretty much all of those, who write about it, mention, that they escape WO, so they wouldn't have to deal with griefers/thiefs. This IS a problem on WO servers and this also IS a reason why players are leaving (I am not saying it is the only reason, but it is one among them). Now let's see how the staff has solved the solution... they chose completely to ignore it.. It has solved the problem for GMs, as they can now say "it is your own fault", but for the players it is still a problem, Theft is still theft, griefing is still griefing.. but now, because it is being ignored, the victims also get another layer of negative feelings - frustration and feeling of being helpless.

 

I can't remember the exact wording but one of the slogans of customer service(which GM team essentially is) is: The aim is to make the customers leave in a better mood than they felt before they approached customer service. This is where Wurm fails, in easy cases, where people get stuck, yes, it even works. But situations, where a player has suffered a real loss(everything destroyed/stolen means real loss in gametime for the victim), then approaching GM team means, that they will leave even more frustrated than when they felt before. It is certain, that first thing they get blamed for what happened etc and in the end the ticket will just get closed.

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17 hours ago, Slickshot said:

Not saying that I agree with what Marlon is saying, but there are sometimes alternative routes or choices to make.  For example, I've been griefed twice by the same person.  I reported this in game of course.  Moderation didn't ban the player as they maybe should have, but I didn't come to the forums to complain about it either.  In fact the only instance of that situation coming to the forums was when the griefing party's friends made threads about it to trash talk me and the moderators in public.  The reason I don't put names here is because that isn't important to the example.  The overall point is I took the situation a different route, even though justice was not had.  Everyone must choose their own path, that's for certain, but the choice is definitely yours and yours alone.

 

If you're refering to your situation regarding me, then this is entirely a lie.

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5 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

 

But you say right in your post, the path you chose got nothing done. What happened to you is not rare. And people don't realize it until it happens to them.

 

 

 

What happened to him is that he went around telling everyone on the server that he could build a bridge anywhere he wanted. He said it did not matter if it was very close to someones deed or even in their perimeter because no one owns perimeter (his words).  As soon as someone went to his perimeter, and just off of his perimeter and started mining veins, he went crying to the staff to have it stopped and sited a "history" that he was actually the only bad guy of. This is the entire situation that occurred, in a nutshell. Don't believe anything that person you're replying to says, he is full of nothing but lies and spins the truth to suit his needs. IE: a douchebag.

Edited by Gumbo
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In case of MR I only have one thing to say: Your own fault and you put it on the game in that specific scenario.

Just like when they lost horton's scale set they put it on the game (accusing me of stealing stuff from a player's inventory who was alive #hashi hacks). If this issue in case of Icbash is genuinely some bug abuse, this should definitely be looked into.

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8 hours ago, LorraineJ said:

 

But you say right in your post, the path you chose got nothing done. What happened to you is not rare. And people don't realize it until it happens to them. The griefing is bad enough, but when an official of the game either compounds it or allows it knowingly, it makes it much worse. I'm telling you, Code Club in many instances does not know it's happening.

 

Some of these recent threads really outraged me because I didn't know these exact people were up to this kind of thing. For one of them, he had spoken to me in reference to buying some of my rare scattered items. Before I had a chance to gather them up and organize getting them to him, I got very busy in RL and forgot to do it. I just recently remembered I was going to take care of this, and I felt like a turd for forgetting, and I was going to gather them all up and give them to him for free. So it would have been items, plus the time wasted to coordinate it, in order to give to a fraud and thief. In the other case, the person wanted me to have my Fo priest go over to another server to take traits off his animals. I don't really even know this person. People who know me know that I almost never go off my server - I've only done it twice. But he was pressing me to do this, and I know how much I hated having bad traits on my animals before I could cure them, so if it had been coordinated, it would have been MANY hours of my time spent traveling back and forth over servers, plus 1/2 hour each for the traits. For a person I barely know who's been treating other players horribly.

 

Keeping wrong acts secret helps no one.

 

 

 

 

The reason I told that story was to show the difference in action taken.  It might not be the route everyone takes, but it's what I chose.  Unfortunately sometimes you get the raw end of the deal and fight as you may, you get no where.  Sad as it is, some days you have to cut your losses and move forward with what makes you happy.  All the advice I can offer, and it isn't always an easy method to use, so I don't blame you if it isn't the route you take.

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If I was to make a 'guess' as to how this happened I would look at the load ( loading a catapult ) push / pull ( the catapult ) as the settings that allowed them to load and shoot a catapult as the possible reason into How this was able to happen. If you happen to have villagers or someones alt thats a villager. 

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Is this kind of information tracked in the Area History selection when managing the settlement?  Answers might be found there.

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What is disappointing is the lack of comments from wurm staff in this topic.

 

Yeah know, step in and say icky screwed up, or we are investigating, or tough luck folks, or stop your bitching and keep forking over those prem's.

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So you had 200euros worth of items and gear on your account, how much worth did you lose in your horses and bulk? I am curious why you would leave over that. Unless we are talking about several supreme items and hota's.

 

The walls and stuff is a pita, I have never been able to catapult another deeds walls unless I was part of the deed with correct permissions and I have tried more than once when I used the wrong account to do it. But I can not see that as a reason to bail on a game you have a lot of time and money invested into.  

 

So odd, I would think that the dev's would have seen this type of abuse in permissions and killed that crap asap. So it must be something else or so well hidden (covered up) that they are unaware of it.

 

Hope you find your happy place.

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A developer - should - be able to check the game database to see where some of the items ended up. If you have specific logs of such items being examined, with stuff like quality, enchants, and creator tags, I am sure they can look through the database and attempt to locate them, leading possibly to the culprit and perhaps leading to more info about how this may have happened. I have heard of this being done before for missing items; namely, for myself when I lost a large chunk of valuable stuff on a server crossing.

My items were returned to me while I was logged off at night. Most of them were put into chests in my house, except some of the no-drop items.

The next day when I logged on Rolf was standing next to my bed, ready to trade me my bag of keeping and some other goodies back that he had retrieved. This came after I personally sent an email to him.

 

 

This is not the same situation obviously but it does show that the database can be looked into for such issues and they can be investigated. For something like a flawed deed permission or some other workaround that permits peopel to make foot with large amounts of valuables and cause people to quit, I would definitely think it is worth the effort for a dev to investigate what happened, even if the conclusion is a forgotten deed settings - The worst that could come from an investigation is a bug found & fixed.

 

Thing is, it might be a lot of work, and you need to talk to the right person to get it done. GMs just follow a protocol and they're probably not lying when they say they have no tools to track this stuff down. Perhaps it is time to look at the standard procedure and agree that if a GM feels they cannot handle something, to forward it to the development team instead of just saying "tough luck, your problem to fix it".

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Not sure how anyone gets into trouble for doing anything if noone can see who did something.  I'm not buying that as I know several have gotten into trouble over the years for doing all sorts of things.

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2 minutes ago, Pashka said:

Not sure how anyone gets into trouble for doing anything if noone can see who did something.  I'm not buying that as I know several have gotten into trouble over the years for doing all sorts of things.

 

Logs. 

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On 4/24/2016 at 7:30 AM, Marlon said:

Another "boo hoo" and "why people like me are leaving"... I just can't seem to get "people like me" to leave quick enough... and I don't get it either, because I have been here for years, and don't see myself leaving.

So confused... so tired of rant threads. Just do it, stop barking.

 

why are you reading it then he did us a favour by letting us a problem in Wurm and in now way did he ask for sympathy and alot of players have been wondering why peioople are leaving so go crawl back in the cesspool you spawned out of ...

 

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On 25/04/2016 at 6:36 AM, JakeRivers said:

What is disappointing is the lack of comments from wurm staff in this topic.

 

Yeah know, step in and say icky screwed up, or we are investigating, or tough luck folks, or stop your bitching and keep forking over those prem's.

Investigations continue.

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On 4/25/2016 at 4:14 PM, Saicotic said:

But I can not see that as a reason to bail on a game you have a lot of time and money invested into.  

 

It's called throwing good money after bad. If you do exactly what you're supposed to do, and you think your deed is safe, and then someone comes and bashes/robs it and the officials do nothing, it's actually sensible to stop playing.

 

GMs can see what happened to squares. There have been times when my creatures were running the streets, and the GMs could tell that a troll bashed the fence the one time, and another time I got spastic and actually undeeded a square on one deed that had a fence, when I was trying to cover a fence with another deed because their perimeters touched, and the square rotted out. Another time someone bashed a fence and killed my first home-bred hell horse the day that fence bashing became legal on Freedom, and they knew who did it but wouldn't say. They can also tell who built a fence.

 

 

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On 4/22/2016 at 7:07 PM, icbash said:
May of you people may know me. Some may hate me, some may think of me as a friend.
 
That's not the point of this thread. The point of this post is to bring awareness as to why wurm is failing its players and why people like me are quitting.
 
(Before continuing, note that this took place on a Freedom deed. Not chaos nor epic.)
 
On the March 23rd I log into my main after working a long 80-hour work week to get some relaxing time in before bed.
 
I logged into a war-zone. Gates and fences in key areas of my deed had been catapulted down. And before you ask I had all "destroy" permissions off for everyone - even my alts could do not this on deed. All barded and shod horses were dead and gone with all gear. Warehouse cleaned out.(which, I admit, might not have been 100% locked down so what was lost out of there is moot).
 
But the fact that someone could bring down walls, gates and even bridge on-deed no matter what perms say. Really bugged me.
 
After playing cat and mouse in order to talk a to GM - a really nice GM - the burden was put on me to find how this happened. I'm sorry but I cannot look at logs from server or get remote ID. That ticket is still open today.
 

To this day stuff on deed is likely still not safe. No-one in a position of authority has found how this expolt works and no-one who does know it has brought it forward.

 

I wish Wurm the best of luck, but you are failing your paying player base.
 

Like many of you, I had a lot of hope for Wurm and what it really could be.

 

 

I seen people do this in the past, apparently they chase Hungry Trolls into a deed fence, and drop mushrooms on that square 

Was quite effective as the trolls bashed though 3 different fences within a week or two, which allowed them total access of the deed which was segmented into 3-4 areas.

 

Also told the deed owner at the time.

 

Edited by enoofu

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So we pretty much need enough deed guards to stave off such trolls if we truly want to be safe, to bad those are so expensive compared to the deeds themselves and most people are likely not to know this. Would be nice if Freedom deeds simply came with a few guards, at no cost, just to protect the players whom aren't aware of all this from griefers (so mainly their wall bashing trolls). It could help limit the people affected by such griefing, and thus reduce the people who quit Wurm due to griefing.

Edited by Ecrir

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Believe the deed they did it to had 2 or 3 Spirit Templar's, so 1-2 weeks timeframe would probably be under 2-3 days with no Guards,also Templars do have trouble against certain trolls.

 

Also getting a group of trolls to chase into the deed or perimeter can usually wipe out the Templar advantage, as they will be spawning out of sych with the other deed Templar's

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ecrir said:

So we pretty much need enough deed guards to stave off such trolls if we truly want to be safe, to bad those are so expensive compared to the deeds themselves and most people are likely not to know this. Would be nice if Freedom deeds simply came with a few guards, at no cost, just to protect the players whom aren't aware of all this from griefers (so mainly their wall bashing trolls). It could help limit the people affected by such griefing, and thus reduce the people who quit Wurm due to griefing.

 

2 hours ago, enoofu said:

Believe the deed they did it to had 2 or 3 Spirit Templar's, so 1-2 weeks timeframe would probably be under 2-3 days with no Guards,also Templars do have trouble against certain trolls.

 

Also getting a group of trolls to chase into the deed or perimeter can usually wipe out the Templar advantage, as they will be spawning out of sych with the other deed Templar's

 

 

 

The best solution for Trolls is to remove their ability to bash any walls anywhere. Some years ago they were never able to bash walls at all. Then it became some big problem that they were penned up on or off deeds, so the god of Wurm decided it would be a good idea for them to bash walls down. Now under various situations they can even bash walls (house walls too) that are on deed tiles. Not the best idea to grief players with a game mechanic like this.

 

I am reminded of a few years prior to this Troll bashing "escape mechanism" when another "good" idea was to have cave bugs mining down cave floors. They then created huge drop shafts all around Independence, this was before any other servers were added, and then due to player complaints this ability was finally removed. I still know a few mines on Indy that have some of these shafts remaining, since if players did not take the time to contact GM's they were never repaired by them. Even then you sort of had to prove that those devils made 'em do it.

 

Yes, in the OP's instance seems Trolls were not the cause, so this might be going off topic but them Trolls do continue to grief players in this manner. Really another poor choice that has little if any positive benefits.

 

=Ayes=

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It is indeed sad that such occurs on Freedom pve servers.

 

Bring it to pvp servers, ya pansies :P

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4 hours ago, Ecrir said:

So we pretty much need enough deed guards to stave off such trolls if we truly want to be safe, to bad those are so expensive compared to the deeds themselves and most people are likely not to know this. Would be nice if Freedom deeds simply came with a few guards, at no cost, just to protect the players whom aren't aware of all this from griefers (so mainly their wall bashing trolls). It could help limit the people affected by such griefing, and thus reduce the people who quit Wurm due to griefing.

 

Can they even kill a troll in less than 4 respawns? LOL

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The only way to be safe from trolls and players abusing troll mechanics is to deed a island and have the deed covering deep water all around

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