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LorenaMontana

So whats gonna happen?

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There was a pole ages ago about merge epic and chaos,rolf did not want this to happen as he would lose "some" players... well mate this is what happens when u make a crap decision.

 

I just figured the solution.. lets open the pve servers to chaos raiders.. that will bring life into the game!!!!!

Edited by Snoo
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19 minutes ago, Snoo said:

There was a pole ages ago about merge epic and chaos,rolf did not want this to happen as he would lose "some" players... well mate this is what happens when u make a crap decision.

 

I just figured the solution.. lets open the pve servers to chaos raiders.. that will bring life into the game!!!!!

Would never happen.  The PvE players outnumber the PvP players by a large majority, and bring a LOT of money to this game.  Would be a bad idea to piss them all off. lol

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Move Epic characters to Freedom and if they want to PVP, there is always Chaos.  Less servers, more concentrated players and all pvp on one map.  

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I already used the portal and left my epic life behind. Nobody wants to play on a server alone. I hope if they merge they do something about the freedom skills I built up on the same account

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20 minutes ago, Eyesgood said:

Move Epic characters to Freedom and if they want to PVP, there is always Chaos.  Less servers, more concentrated players and all pvp on one map.  

What about moving Chaos characters to Epic?

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Most of those players are already highly skilled, and would only benefit from the curve in the future.

 

I think the problem is that if you take the chaos guys to epic they lose access to the pve 

content they signed up for.

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4 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

What about moving Chaos characters to Epic?

 

What about moving my foot in your ass?

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1 minute ago, lolmaster said:

 

What about moving my foot in your ass?

Why am I even responding to this ignorance right now?

3 minutes ago, AlphaMaleAD said:

Most of those players are already highly skilled, and would only benefit from the curve in the future.

 

I think the problem is that if you take the chaos guys to epic they lose access to the pve 

content they signed up for.

On the flip side you're asking the epic players to reset their skills in an environment that requires even more grinding to get to where they were.  If they have a skill transfer equation in the works it would seem easier to apply that benefit to Chaos players that move to epic.  I agree that losing out on PvE content is harsh; however, those who go from PvE to Epic PvP already have to start over fresh with the same toon and same premium, so why would it be such a hassle to have them go from PvP through a portal to PvE?  If anything their current freedom cluster skill levels would remain the same, and they'd just have to pick which server to port to upon their first travels.  Just something to ponder.

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11 hours ago, Eyesgood said:

Move Epic characters to Freedom and if they want to PVP, there is always Chaos.  Less servers, more concentrated players and all pvp on one map.  

That won't help.  When you have double the skillgain on Epic and transfer to Freedom, then there are going to be complaints about "Well, why don't we get 2x skillgain." and all this crazy crap.  Don't remove Epic, I enjoy it and I would hate to see these memories go to crap, just like that.

Edited by Chansbi

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17 hours ago, Slickshot said:

Would never happen.  The PvE players outnumber the PvP players by a large majority, and bring a LOT of money to this game.  Would be a bad idea to piss them all off. lol

 

hehe

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I guess many People would pvp a lot more if they wouldnt loose so much after dieing. Maybe they should change that and implement something else as reward for pvp. I know its more casual mmorpg like wow but why not place a merchant where you can trade ears of your victims for some decorational items? This with no equippment lost would even bring in some pve players to pvp i bet!

 

(for me that was allways the main reason to never pvp becouse the punishment for dieing is just to high)

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people may complain about the epic skillgain which they dont fully understand. 

 

but said people will not quit because of this.. as it demonstrates they value THIER skillgain. what would be lost is epic players who feel like thier gameplay doesnt matter. 

 

I guess the question is listen to players who may not like a new direction in wurm but will continue grinding as history shows (eg. fountain pan update, skillgain reversal.. ect.) as they don't pvp or are on chaos vs losing the majority of epic.  Save the game ffs have 1 connected world for both pvp and pve vs the crap we got now.

 

Look at the release merge it went okay right?

Edited by Snoo
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On 4/23/2016 at 3:14 AM, Biervampyr said:

I guess many People would pvp a lot more if they wouldnt loose so much after dieing. Maybe they should change that and implement something else as reward for pvp. I know its more casual mmorpg like wow but why not place a merchant where you can trade ears of your victims for some decorational items? This with no equippment lost would even bring in some pve players to pvp i bet!

 

(for me that was allways the main reason to never pvp becouse the punishment for dieing is just to high)

 

PvP like that is what I would consider PvE. Trading in body parts for decorative rugs or some ######?

 

PvP in Wurm is about completely destroying the enemy. Typically, that enemy is someone you really despise. For most people in this game, they either like you or can't stand to even hear your name mentioned in voice chat. For most groups, raiding a deed is about taking down the entire facility and leaving it a total wasteland. Open field PvP is about wiping the other group and then looting every last thing there down to the farmer's salve. It's disgusting how most people act in this game.

 

Personally, I never looted. Unless it was some ###### hot item that was better than the stuff I could make, which was extremely rare. Raiding a deed for me was about blasting a hole to the token and getting the drain and then spamming the garden gnome music as a taunt. I believed in this way of thinking because it promoted more PvP, and didn't wreck my enemy to the point of quitting. Sadly, not everyone I played with in my group was about the same ideal.

 

Implementing your idea for promoting PvP would only make things worse...and here is why. Those that love to loot, and wreck things, and demoralize their enemy, would channel all that perceived lost fun by raiding deeds to the ground as compensation. Unless you couple your idea with some mechanic that stops people from destroying every single structure and digging down dirt walls, this will not help PvP. Of course at that point, the game becomes a slightly more raw version of Freedom.

 

In my opinion, PvP suffers from the one thing that everyone in this game refuses to admit...STAGNATION. There is no attrition in Wurm and therefor no way to allow new players to compete and grow to the levels that other people achieve simply because those people have spent more time playing the game. Skills and items can only get better and never get worse. Accounts never disappear, good items never decay to dust, and deeds never return to the way they were before touched. It's a paradigm that leads to what we have now in Wurm and no amount of mechanical changes will solve the problem. There is no end game design and what you are left with in that case is a couple of servers that are void of virgin lands and lightly populated with super accounts that aren't worth challenging. Try selling that as a good game to a prospective player.

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I left cause i felt the game was slowly dying, I came back seeing Epic picking up and it got stale so i left and called it quits. I've given this game numerous chances since i've started around 2007 (All PVP). A series of bad decisions by Rolf and his volunteers led to where we are now. There is no recovery because the player-base that would play even if it is fixed have a sour taste in their mouths. Not to even mention this MMO is coming up on 10 years old or is 10 years old. They don't last forever.

 

Would a new PVP server bring me back? I dunno, If my friends all came back also. I just don't think anyone has the trust in the Wurm Dev team (New or not) to properly create a PVP server.

 

 

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I think many good points are raised here.  There once was a player base enthusiastic to engage and battle on all pvp servers.  What has happened along the way is dev team untimely response or no response to bugs that grow faster than any correction coupled with staff reaction and handling of players in that frustration to say deal with it or promises of changes that don't happen.  Moreover there is threat on the forums of speaking out against staff and code club now in some catch all FUD to suppress players even more when we only speak out.  We speak out not from malice yet because we care and love the game.  So eventually there is fatigue and players leave in reluctant unwillingness.  Staff has become very defensive about what the problem is and players are put in the crosshairs for expressing disappointment of concern.  I think a more professionally directed game, using  Game Theory Principles and planned management is needed vs well intended yet inexperienced volunteers.  This could have brought about a healthier direction vs the wandering and grasping missteps that we see.  My postings have historically been only saying the "right and pleasing" things to encourage yet at some point candor needs to be shared.

Edited by Bloodscythe
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TL:DR - Wurms been out so long now, maybe it's time for a reset, a big reset.

 

Spoiler

 

I can't get back into WO, I'm running my own WU 1x PVE server, but even with 10~20 players, it's got a very 'active' feel, we've built up a nice community with players helping other players, working on infrastructure etc. I'm hooked on it and recently were having a large influx of completely new to wurm players leaving our spawn town busy teaching newbies the game and obviously warning them about it's flaws.

 

On WO, the populations so spread out over the maps sailing/riding around to find people is just a headache, the maps are just so worn out in places which just puts me off even more (talking about the old maps, I wouldn't touch Xanadu with a barge-pole personally, think that was an overzealous project before it even came out and hear it still has lag).

 

My last session on WO was spent on Deli I think, east side of the map, near Plains of Steel after walking around for hours and not finding a soul. After making my tiny deed and setting up my 'shack', I ended up spending all my time repairing the decaying damage of the land (knocking down walls, destroying tons of abandoned items, rebuilding forests, removing dig holes in sand, sealing up old mines tile-for-tile etc), there were a few deeds in the area, I only ever saw 1 person login at Plains of Steel and they weren't very active. It got boring and lonely... so I quit.

What communities I can currently find aren't very active, bloated via priest alt's or isolated on a small part of the map. Also, trader deeds should be banned/stop traders giving out cash, I saw an entire coast line riddled with trader shacks, isn't helping any.

 

Before this I ran a town, very active 10+ players, in an active alliance with many many more, it was great.. then Xanadu came and most my town moved there. Skeptical, I was waiting for 'new server jitters' to pass before I moved over... but they lagged out and ragequit. Many of these players had been playing for years with me, in a single week the game managed to tear apart a community that had stuck together for years, the remaining villagers just got lonely, bored, depressed and logged out never to be seen again in Wurm. I tried to stick it out, I really did and stayed in my now empty town, then some bright spark made unique's re-spawn routinely and just.. PVE vs PVP drama, server vs server, elite vs old drama... it's depressing, here's an idea, make unique's pre-butchered, on death throw out their spoils randomly to players with X (10?) tiles, there, everyone attend, go nuts. Fixed.

 

If it was me, I'd halt all patch pushes to WO and keep developing/testing, and push them all as one big content update on reset day to entice new and old players alike. New mechanics (caves), new objects (flags, furniture, tools.. whatever), new walls (Why do we only still have 4 wall styles?) mobs (if any are planned) etc.

Some new large sized (Indy sized) non-auto-generated-tripe (WU default maps are AWFUL) style maps, 1 for PVE, 1 for PVP, 1 for Epic etc and lock them (PVE <=> PVP travel, nope, c'mon.. they're polar opposites) to their own play-style, would filter out a lot of drama that makes players ragequit in itself.

Advertise it for a while as the "Great Reset", add in some invasions and more GM event interactions for a while on the old maps, generally, go nuts, it's the end of the world party. Then on release day attract a horde of new players who want that 'fresh survival and exploration' feel, a new beginning, have new communities develop and generally level the playing field for all. And reset again in another 10 years... if it makes it that long.

 

No everyone will be happy, but meh... it's been 10 years already, this game has more than run it's course, do you really not expect a big shake up at some point? Because the alternative is to carry-on as is, whilst more and more ever developing clones aiming for that sandbox feeling, snap up the next generation of sandboxers and Wurm just dies a painfully slow death.

 

...But that is just my thoughts...

 

 

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Another wurmageddon will fix it all. Bring it on

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If Elevation is any gauge, a reset (assuming it gets mass support) will bring more people initially. There'll be a land rush and they'll spend hours upon hours building their new deeds and everything will be new and exciting. Then a few weeks later, they'll start thinking "y'know, I kind of miss my old server. I have a lot of good memories of that place." Then they'll become disillusioned, realizing that they lost everything that they spent all that time on, and they'll play less and less until the server becomes more deserted than it's ever been.

 

The nuclear option isn't the answer. People leave games over time. You can't fight that. Doesn't matter how good or timeless the game is; they moved on from Ultima, they'll move on from Wurm. Instead of trying to keep those same people here forever, the goal should be to bring in new players at a faster rate than current players leave. But Wurm's advertising is still basically non-existent, so of course this natural blood loss will outpace population growth. The game itself is solid. It's the community that's crumbling.

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I say let lorenamontana become an npc that teaches new players how to fish in the tutorial. This alone would improve game play 100x

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From what information I have the pvp side of the game is very sick right now, with drastically dropping numbers and people quitting. This is not good for new players wanting to try out player versus player combat on any of the servers, be it the Epic cluster or the former Wild.

 I do not believe a map rest on Elevation would help any, this has recently been done and to null effect. Chaos, meanwhile, is a different kettle of fish. I have heard and seen some of its most established players say that it is too big for effective raiding, and they are right, to a degree.

 I said this like five years ago, but now is the time for a complete and thorough evaluation and resetting of the game's combat system I believe it is this one factor that is driving new and established players from pvp.

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Sell the game to disney

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On 22/4/2016 at 5:00 PM, Slickshot said:

Would never happen.  The PvE players outnumber the PvP players by a large majority, and bring a LOT of money to this game.  Would be a bad idea to piss them all off. lol

 

It allready did happen. alot of the pve players quit, JK Home was closed and Independence was opned. people was forced to chose between playing on pvp or pve, luckely travel between server types was opned again.

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12 minutes ago, Mith said:

 

It allready did happen. alot of the pve players quit, JK Home was closed and Independence was opned. people was forced to chose between playing on pvp or pve, luckely travel between server types was opned again.

I guess my point stands then and they learned a valuable lesson that day. ;)

Edited by Slickshot

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On 4/20/2016 at 1:35 AM, Propheteer said:

 

it's not ahahaha

 

 

20$ says now that i've sold my account, they follow my prediction and merge now that its too far gone and wonder why it didn't improve player count that much.

 

On 4/21/2016 at 7:48 PM, Dairuka said:

 

We could measure success at 50k. The lowest possible benchmark for size. In this case, this would mean Age of Conan, Runescape and EvE are the only successful Open, otherwise known as FFA-PvP MMORPG game.

 

We could measure success at a 'growing' population. In this case, this would mean there are no successful FFA-PvP MMORPG games. Even EvE has shrunk substantially over the past year.

 

We could measure success at, 'still actively PvP'ing with groups of people larger than 20 at a time every week.' In this case, this would mean Age of Conan, Runescape, Lineage 2 and EvE are the only successful FFA-PvP MMORPG games. (4 MMORPG's out of hundreds of failures. Including... Runescape and Lineage 2... pathetic.)

 

We can change the measuring stick to give each game the best possible chance to seem far more important than it really is, but honestly, the aforementioned games have a lot more going for them than the PvP, which is why they've done so well. Excluding EvE, the PvP in every one of them is notoriously stagnant and often the butt of jokes of their far larger PvE communities. (Sound Familiar?)

 

FFA-PvP sucks the life out of gaming communities. It's most suited for fast-paced action, usually in the form of First Person Shooters, or games with quick recovery times. (Rust, Ark) - MMORPG's tend to be time intensive, which means that every loss costs the losers hundreds of wasted man-hours. This is why the most successful MMORPG's in the past have been Restricted PvP of some form, usually involving a 3-sided Realm versus Realm. Low loss, means a far smaller loss of man-hours. This makes recovery easier, allowing people to get back into the fight much easier. This means more conflict in the long run, which translates to more fun for all sides.

 

People love to talk about the spoils of FFA-PvP games, but they neglect to recognize that they, like all humans are ridiculously risk-averse. Humans tend to remember losses, or fear potential losses far more than they can see the rewards, or even feel the rewards of any given victory. Those of us who take heavy losses as a result of things out of our control tend to take it personally, and a loss of desire or determination quickly follows. It's human nature to quit FFA-PvP games after a severe loss of work, or man-hours.

 

Veterans in every single FFA-PvP game love to complain about patches of doom, or they come up with other false-flag reasons (Balance is the #1 reason.) as to why they've lost interest and quit. Of course, the true, honest to god reason people actually quit a game, is because they got bored. How do you keep people who are actually interested in a FFA-PvP MMORPG game, interested in that FFA-PvP MMORPG game for long periods of time? Conflict. What happens when that conflict fizzles out, and the rivalries move on? They quit. The servers shrink. In most cases the games close. (Roma Victor, Shadowbane) In others, maintenance mode. (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Age of Conan, Darktide/Asheron's Call.)

 

Anyhow, in Wurm's case. The FFA-PvP population here didn't quit because of game-breaking bugs. They quit because they found a better alternative, Wurm Unlimited, and jumped ship at the first convenient opportunity. The population before Wurm Unlimited was anything but stable. Complaint threads about population have been cropping up since Freedom opened up. You guys have always been in the minority, and always been shrinking.

 

 

 

 

Wurm Online at one point was just one big server. Crafters crafted for the fighters, fighters defended the crafters. It was a great balance and made the game much more interesting because everyone had weight to pull. Now Crafters sit on a server and mail everything over to fighters. If a one server idea was ever brought people would stroke out and start licking car batteries. Instead of Freedom clusters telling the PVP clusters to suck it up, how about you take a chance/change. This game is going to fizzle out and lose a huge portion of loyal and veteran players who follow this game like its a religion. It kills the game to be able to cross over to 9 other servers or whatever it is these days to start fresh, it doesn't give people incentive to stay and rebuild. "my village just got plundered, no worries there is a map with 50% of it still remaining unexplored and untouched I'll go there"

 

Darkfall is slowly shutting down the Uholy Wars servers and reverting back to their old style of game play and pvp systems. This is what the public wants and will get eventually. I think the Dev's and creator need to take a page from their book and rethink their strategy on moving forward before it honestly is to late. This is going to draw from the WO PVP population for sure, a good majority of the active PVPers came from DF or went there after it started up back in the day. R.I.P DED

 

 

Edited by Holar
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1 hour ago, Holar said:

 

 

 

 

Wurm Online at one point was just one big server. Crafters crafted for the fighters, fighters defended the crafters. It was a great balance and made the game much more interesting because everyone had weight to pull. Now Crafters sit on a server and mail everything over to fighters. If a one server idea was ever brought people would stroke out and start licking car batteries. Instead of Freedom clusters telling the PVP clusters to suck it up, how about you take a chance/change. This game is going to fizzle out and lose a huge portion of loyal and veteran players who follow this game like its a religion. It kills the game to be able to cross over to 9 other servers or whatever it is these days to start fresh, it doesn't give people incentive to stay and rebuild. "my village just got plundered, no worries there is a map with 50% of it still remaining unexplored and untouched I'll go there"

 

Darkfall is slowly shutting down the Uholy Wars servers and reverting back to their old style of game play and pvp systems. This is what the public wants and will get eventually. I think the Dev's and creator need to take a page from their book and rethink their strategy on moving forward before it honestly is to late. This is going to draw from the WO PVP population for sure, a good majority of the active PVPers came from DF or went there after it started up back in the day. R.I.P DED

 

 

 

And when all the freedom players quit after your proposed Rolf's Lunch 2.0, and all the PvP'ers quit (Because, as I've shown, they do in the end anyways), who is left?

 

Instead of the failed PvP servers telling the Freedom cluster to suck it up and merge together to become easy prey for PvP'ers, how about PvP'ers just admit their way of gaming isn't sustainable?

 

Wanna know why Darkfall keeps resetting, opening and shutting down servers? It's because fresh starts are the only way to keep FFA-PvP palatable, and even that doesn't work because the best players merely find ways to game the system during the early landrushes. Guess what offers similar gameplay to Wurm Online, and allows people to reset the server at their leisure? Wurm Unlimited. Guess where all the PvP'ers went? Wurm Unlimited.

 

What a coincidence!

 

If CodeClub AB was smart, they'd use this lull in the PvP sector as an excuse to do a combat overhaul.

Edited by Dairuka
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