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LorenaMontana

So whats gonna happen?

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Whether those 113 people are separate people or half alts, or whatever... They all stopped playing because nothing was done or for some other reason. Change needs to happen to see those numbers again.

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6 minutes ago, Drastox said:

 

This is what I was getting at. And I actually don't care if people don't have the backbone to deal with toxic behaviour, I don't care if that's the only reason no one plays ( can confidently say there's many other reasons), rust is one of the most toxic community games I've ever played yet has the entire wurm player base playing on each and every server. 

 

And that's probably the quick access to PvP from the get go ,not this 6 month to a year skilling system currently in place. I personally think people just don't have the time and patience to play this game any more when people can get the same PvP buzz and excitement playing something else.

Absolute numbers are just so different.

 

https://steamdb.info/app/252490/graphs/

4.5M total owners and only 28k peak(last 24 hrs).

For example if from 100k your toxic behavior chases away 80% players who try the game, you still have 20k left(which is considerable amount).

But from 100 players driving off 80% players leaves you with 20 players, which is pretty bad.

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2 minutes ago, Drastox said:

Toxic behaviour is not the reason for 80% leaving. 

I agree, that it is not only reason why people are leaving, but this is one of the reasons. And only reason, over which you have control. If you care for epic so much, you could do everything from your part to keep the players there, but you don't.

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You don't know me....

 

 

Actually yeah I help leave craters when I raid on epic, and I guess that happens on chaos too.

 

We shouldn't have to step on egg shells to help keep the few playing without a backbone though. 

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So what does Epic need to come back? Instead of just sarcasm and harassment, and forget this god awful idea of a reset, merge, or transfer.

 

how would you go about seeing new players welcomed into Epic, and how would the dev team improve the Epic experience?

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1 minute ago, SeeD said:

So what does Epic need to come back? Instead of just sarcasm and harassment, and forget this god awful idea of a reset, merge, or transfer.

 

how would you go about seeing new players welcomed into Epic, and how would the dev team improve the Epic experience?

 

Smaller map ( one map/ server), start again ( yes reset) and with the shield gain nerf atleast everyone won't be getting 90 in a shield as quickly as we were ( I actually liked that change). 

 

The problem we have is getting everyone to agree on the same ideas. I know for one my idea isn't favoured by everyone and that's totally fine, I'm adaptable. But its hard to be adaptable with no one playing with you.

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but thats not the answer, resets, merges and transfers further damage underlying stability and ultimately screw over those who have stuck with elevation, rewarding those who quit, pay nothing, then turn up, maybe prem for a month or two, then in all likeliness, quit again.

 

Let's focus on actual issues that can improve epic for new players rather than server a tiny amount of players (yes, 100 is a tiny amount!)

 

I think CA help, if f2p is allowed on epic, needs to cover it, There needs to be support for new players and Elevation doesn't have any. So do we promote home servers instead, or improve support systems for elevation?

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Problem with getting people to stick around.. I remember when I started out, there was so much to learn I didn't even think of this game as a game and more like a job. It should be easier to start out in every aspect while still keeping you thinking there's enough meat on the bone to keep you playing.

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2 minutes ago, Drastox said:

Problem with getting people to stick around.. I remember when I started out, there was so much to learn I didn't even think of this game as a game and more like a job. It should be easier to start out in every aspect while still keeping you thinking there's enough meat on the bone to keep you playing.

That was tried with challenge, even faster gameplay than epic, all kinds of rewards, regular resets.

After couple of rounds it was a ghost town, so that didn't help either.

 

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13 minutes ago, SeeD said:

but thats not the answer, resets, merges and transfers further damage underlying stability and ultimately screw over those who have stuck with elevation, rewarding those who quit, pay nothing, then turn up, maybe prem for a month or two, then in all likeliness, quit again.

 

Let's focus on actual issues that can improve epic for new players rather than server a tiny amount of players (yes, 100 is a tiny amount!)

 

I think CA help, if f2p is allowed on epic, needs to cover it, There needs to be support for new players and Elevation doesn't have any. So do we promote home servers instead, or improve support systems for elevation?

 

That's a good idea and on the right track for new players, still doesn't help old players. I get the feeling that you think that because your a loyal customer that people that come and go have no right to a say and you infact do... Which sounds bad but maybe that's just me..

 

9 minutes ago, rixk said:

That was tried with challenge, even faster gameplay than epic, all kinds of rewards, regular resets.

After couple of rounds it was a ghost town, so that didn't help either.

 

 

If it had leaderboards I think that might have been a neat little edition. I also hated that the rewards were mostly sold.. Don't know how others felt about that. Could have been one of the reasons it didn't work out.

Edited by Drastox
spelling mistake

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On 2016-04-20 at 9:33 AM, Retrograde said:

I'd rather see epic rebooted with new mechanics, better structure, and clearer goals that have an impact on the world (and no, not player gods and meteors)

 

I know Epic is really hurting at this point, I'm constantly being poked for updates and I really wish we could deliver changes on the spot, but that's not something that's going to happen unfortunately. The changes with the dev team have caused a few delays in discussions but things are picking up pace again, the key changes discussed in the feedback threads should hit soon, with the more debated ideas coming after, once we spend more time fleshing the possibilities out.

 

The major thing is, in order to improve we need to avoid mistakes of the past, and while I know there's a great sense of urgency and impatience within the Epic and Pvp community, these things cannot be rushed else we'll make the same mistakes again.

this T B H, reset epic entirely as the changes are implemented, i'd most likely come back for that if valrei has changed enough where the player god cancer is gone and valrei rewards aren't focused on pve missions so you have to create pvp in order to potentially gain valrei items

 

I think the biggest problem right now is that nobody seems to know what will happen, because as it is right now pvp in wurm is old, old clusters with very bad mechanics (especially mechanics which hinders pvp like underwater buildings and the nolo change)

 

 

 

Edited by changer
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On 2016-04-20 at 10:02 AM, Sklo:D said:

Maybe it is time to start the endgame and get rid of epic in the end. Wurm Online has far too many servers at the moment.

removing epic entirely will only reduce the server maintenance costs a bit, chaos is about 10 players above epics population every time i glance at the server status list, remove the epic players that went over there and chaos is far below epic in terms of active population, the point is that neither pvp server/cluster is doing well, both are stagnating which isn't surprising considering how old the clusters are.

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Well, PvP is the meat on the bones on Epic, skillgain comes second.

 

Does the curve address this enough? I don;t think absurdly high rates with Challenge were good, i don't want a server that resets.

 

Player gods have always been iffy, I'd rather see them ascend to join their god rather than become followable gods themselves, but can they be removed from Epic/the game without driving away more people?

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For us few remaining epic players. We really just want info on future plans. At this point a lot of us keep wondering if it's even worth building up anymore and if it's even worth grinding skills on a cluster that has no set plans or even a future anymore.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, SeeD said:

 rewarding those who quit, pay nothing, then turn up, maybe prem for a month or two, then in all likeliness, quit again.

you know those are the people mmos benefit most from? that's what the whole millions worth payment model of hearthstone is based on tbh. maybe not the best for the playerbase, but it makes bank.

Edited by Elktazahjr
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On 2016-05-02 at 0:30 PM, Fawkes said:

If Elevation is any gauge, a reset (assuming it gets mass support) will bring more people initially. There'll be a land rush and they'll spend hours upon hours building their new deeds and everything will be new and exciting. Then a few weeks later, they'll start thinking "y'know, I kind of miss my old server. I have a lot of good memories of that place." Then they'll become disillusioned, realizing that they lost everything that they spent all that time on, and they'll play less and less until the server becomes more deserted than it's ever been.

 

The nuclear option isn't the answer. People leave games over time. You can't fight that. Doesn't matter how good or timeless the game is; they moved on from Ultima, they'll move on from Wurm. Instead of trying to keep those same people here forever, the goal should be to bring in new players at a faster rate than current players leave. But Wurm's advertising is still basically non-existent, so of course this natural blood loss will outpace population growth. The game itself is solid. It's the community that's crumbling.

the older a server gets the less incentive will new players have to actually play there, advertisement haven't worked well in the past and the vast majority of players that i've talked to found it through friends/other forums which is essentially free advertisement, thats how games function nowadays, only big gaming empires like blizzard have the option to traditionally advertise with some effect

 

the game isn't solid as the game is crumbling because players are leaving due to the introduction of mechanics which has a negative effect on pvp, even back after the reset when there were 100+ players on elevation there was very little pvp, population will do nothing to increase the pvp amount if there isn't any pvp already, it's like adding wood to a fire which has already burnt out

 

if you find out as a new player that there's players with 90 body strength and 12515215 OP valrei items stacked, no matter your player skill and their player skill you won't beat them head on, even on epic this was noticable when we fought against bl in the start of the reset

 

the new bs health curve and the nerf of SOTG will help with this, but at this point the resources, skills, amount of time-constricted exploits that has been exploited, valrei items and other influences are stacked heavily

 

it's universal for games where the character skill is almost infinite, it was the same in tibia where they ruined the game by the introduction of horrible mechanics, they introduced new servers every year or so that players can start fresh, those servers were always much higher in pop and stood higher than the original servers

 

(it's a horrible idea to add new servers every year in wurm, but resetting every few years isn't a bad idea, without renewal there will just be stagnation until there's nothing left, which is exactly what we're witnessing)

Edited by changer
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2 hours ago, SeeD said:

So what does Epic need to come back? Instead of just sarcasm and harassment, and forget this god awful idea of a reset, merge, or transfer.

 

how would you go about seeing new players welcomed into Epic, and how would the dev team improve the Epic experience?

Sorry, but everything that can be done to "fix" Epic involves leaving in place the one thing that is stopping people from playing there and stagnating the PvP servers...windows of opportunity. 

 

I had a couple characters on Epic that were perfectly fine to go up against the other accounts there, however the accounts would curbstomp newer players, and that's what sucks. 

 

There is no fix for the eventual stagnation that comes with the PvP servers aside from a complete wipe and restart on a periodic basis. After a certain time frame, a newer player cannot compete, pure and simple. 

 

Let the PvP servers play out for a set amount of time, developing the usual exploits, politics, and terraforming. Hot fix what you can and work on permanent fixes along the way. Reset after the set time frame allowed, or set up a win scenario and apply the permanent fixes for the new round.

 

Turbonerds can turbonerd, and casuals can be casual, without the possibility of accounts getting out of hand and making people feel like there is no way to catch up. At that point teamwork becomes a priority instead of grinding.

 

You wanna hermit in this game, I suggest playing PvE.

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Chaos has gone through some really rough times as well, I remember it having like 10 characters on a weekend. And it probably got better because people can sail to it from the Freedom servers.

 

Without allowing Epic to have this oportunity, I dont see how it could be revived.

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6 hours ago, SeeD said:

What about driving off new players by effectively hunting and spawn camping them?

 

There's no denying that there's been dev failures, but how do we counter player failures?

There has been instances of this happening.

 

2 examples:

The inter-kingdom killing group on BLH was removed. back when BLH was essentially lawless and a big FFA.

And then there is this event where 2 kingdoms massacered a third becouse it was trying to raid a very weak kingdom with large numbers:

 

Players do infact care.

Edited by Zekezor
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4 hours ago, SeeD said:

Well, PvP is the meat on the bones on Epic, skillgain comes second.

 

Does the curve address this enough? I don;t think absurdly high rates with Challenge were good, i don't want a server that resets.

 

Player gods have always been iffy, I'd rather see them ascend to join their god rather than become followable gods themselves, but can they be removed from Epic/the game without driving away more people?

Without reworking all the other gods and possibly giving one more dedicated BL god I don't see removing the new ones being an option. That is probably 1 of the things that would drive me away if it did happen as our BL template kingdom would end up being screwed with having to share only 3 available libila champ slots with HOTS. That amoung a few other things. 

 

 

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the old god system was wayyy more balanced than the current one, and much better both in gameplay and """wurm lore"""

 

both lights had advantages where you had to play a certain style in order to be effective, when the old bl team played as bl we tore the rektums of wl kingdoms both on boat and on land, when we played as wl the same thing happened against both wl and bl kingdoms

 

really the only thing that was needed was adding nimb to libila or actually making botd have some actual noticable effect

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8 minutes ago, changer said:

really the only thing that was needed was adding nimb to libila or actually making botd have some actual noticable effect

 

web to wl, bloodthirst to wl, true hit to wl

lt to bl, nimble to bl

 

could be missing some stuff but basically player gods removed the necessity to have enemy kingdom priest alts which we should keep this way while removing player gods or enchanting part of the equation will be dumb again.  plus some other obvious stuff like letting lib cata, letting mag bash, maybe let mag woodcut too to help promote mag being the choice pvp god of wl as he's supposed to be, letting lib farm to get stuff for taming and not have the oddball taming nerf. 

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Religion in Wurm Online can probably be called the biggest FUBAR situation ever.  Player gods was a cool idea but in reality it is a complete failure. 

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8 hours ago, Biervampyr said:

In the epic disscusion section is a topic where 113 People voted for a merge, if these people would start playing again on epic there would be no need for a merge (dont forget that most people use more than 1 toon they could have a higher population than xanadu :D )

"if everyone in the world would stop fighting each other, we could have world peace"

 

If the richest people in the world donated their money to the poor, we would have no poverty!

 

If we just got rid of nuclear weapons there would be no world tension!

 

Bad argument friend.

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