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Hashirama

To people who keep stressing on reducing the premium cost

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I'll fix that when you make your final edit. (At your deathbed or earlier?)

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Just now, zigozag said:

I'll fix that when you make your final edit. (At your deathbed or earlier?)

 

I usually stop when I get bored.

 

I got bored. It's done.

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6 minutes ago, Hashirama said:


1) The hypocrisy 

2) The irony in the hypocrisy

 

Someone disagreeing with you isn't trolling.  Just wanted to make that clear moving forward.  Hope that helps your understanding of the situation, as you seem confused.  Feel free to pm me for further conversation, and I'd be happy to banter with you. :)

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People are voicing their opinion on how (they think) to make the game more successful. Whether they are right or wrong, they are doing it with good intentions.

 

The only thing out of line here is this thread.

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Yeah, you might not wanna start a thread about personal opinions with "You are out of line". It sounds quite douchy. ;p

 

That being said i never met someone complaining about the pricing, is this actually a widespread reason for people not playing wurm?

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31OSIph.png

 

8 minutes ago, VentureCo said:

That being said i never met someone complaining about the pricing, is this actually a widespread reason for people not playing wurm?

 

Those who choose not to buy premium don't tend to tell the general public why they choose to not do it. Price might be the reason for a substantial number of potential players. Somebody mentioned a multi-level premium model that would at lower level allow to ride a horse and pilot a cart and maybe build stone houses but not provide the eternal character protection. I think with some more thought this could be incorporated.

Edited by zigozag
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12 minutes ago, VentureCo said:

Yeah, you might not wanna start a thread about personal opinions with "You are out of line". It sounds quite douchy. ;p

 

That being said i never met someone complaining about the pricing, is this actually a widespread reason for people not playing wurm?

 

It's actually a relic of the past. Wurm faced a pricing increase that was proportionally larger than the claimed reasoning for it. (The tax hike.)

 

This left a sour taste in many of the veteran's mouths, and the wound never did seem to heal. People are using the pricing as a scapegoat for Wurm's current decline. This comes pretty closely after the cries for a change in subscription model.

 

Rolf has actually gone on record in both cases about his lamentation of the price increase, as well as about his looking into the potential of changing the subscription model, but sees enacting either idea as potentially catastrophic for Wurm's growth, and/or sustainability as a still profitable game. (And I agree with him wholeheartedly on the matter.)

 

For the most part, Wurm's gameplay is the main reason people leave - but it's also the main reason people stay. A double-edged sword. Pretty much identical to the problems A Tale in the Desert faces.

 

I'm betting that most of you never even heard of A Tale in the Desert. If you have, I'm betting it was on the Wurm Online forums, posting similarities between Wurm and ATiTD. This also highlights the exact same problems that Wurm faces. A lack of a recognizable brand. Nobody will try out your game if they don't know it exists.

 

Edited by Dairuka

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Was it that tax thing? I remember something hazy there involving "price adjusting" and eu taxes...

 

I actually played A Tale in the Desert a looong time ago but couldn't really get into it. It had some payment barrier aswell if i recall right (Sub with free trial or something), If it's still around it definetely is doing something right though considering i tried it in like 2002 or something.

 

And the same goes for Wurm basically. It's a niche game with a fairly dedicated audience that can't get this experience elsewhere. And i think Rolf and gang are playing this niche card fairly well, no out-of-place additions to attract the average joe-gamer-brodude, a F2P model coflicting with the game mechanics, or other nastyness like that.

And since it's a niche game i also think the pricing is generally much less of an issue when it comes to player retention.

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1 hour ago, bdew said:

People are voicing their opinion on how (they think) to make the game more successful. Whether they are right or wrong, they are doing it with good intentions.

 

The only thing out of line here is this thread.

 

People aren't going to stay if premium cost is halved or reduced in any way, if they want to leave they will leave regardless of premium cost. Also the fact that people act like they have every claim over the game and can suggest financial options to rolf is out of line imo. People have started thinking too high and if you read their toxic comments like "game needs a better CEO" "Rolf doesnt know what he is doing", all that stuff is out of line.

That's the sole purpose of the thread, people should stop whining and leave already if they do not want to play. 

Edited by Hashirama

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 2:20 PM, Hashirama said:

You are out of line. You can suggest nice changes which affect our gameplay, but asking the person who made the game to size the premium payment to suit the personal needs of the players is too much.

I have not seen any games which implement suggestions like wurm. Contrary to what people may think, the suggestions do get implemented. More than half of my suggestions were put into game very shortly after I made them.


But ofcourse that is not enough and then people start to comment out of their league, seriously play the game. If you don't think it's fun and worth your 8 euro a month, leave please. Do not whine.

 

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 2:25 PM, Hashirama said:

And seriously, if anyone in the right mind says "I have 1 account only but I find 8 euro too steep for 1 month of premium", that is......well....stupid... and even for that person there is an option to earn in game silver by COUNTLESS MEANS!

 

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 2:52 PM, Hashirama said:

>>>>>I did exactly what kochinac did, it took me a few months to establish stable premium. But once I had it, I could enjoy all the features that anyone else could without putting a single dollar in the game.<<<<<

 

While I would agree that the 8 euro per month Premium price is not much of a deterrent that prevents players from playing the game initially or continuing to do so, I think your harsh presentation doesn't serve well in your attempt to prove your point.

 

Now from reading your last quote here it makes me think that after you had established your Premium character you never put another single dollar into paying for this Premium character again? Your words there not mine so maybe I am misinterpreting this statement. Yet if this is the case, since you never paid for Premium for that character again after that point in time, or maybe only just a few times that you forgot to mention, then you have not really supported the game by paying for that Premium account, which is actually what you are berating others for in terms of the 8 euros per month Premium subscription fee.

 

I can understand that rightfully so some players who have always paid for their Premium character(s) subscription fee from the Wurm Shop can make a valid claim that they have supported the game's continuance and progress as a result; but, it seems very plain to me that those who have avoided paying this fee by various means have as a result not supported the game's income. No in-depth financial analysis or background required to figure this out, as some would wish to imply.

 

My suggestion would be to move out of the glass house before you take an indignant stand against those who are wishing to suggest even a less significant reduction in the Premium subscription rate which you are paying nothing for anyway. If you are doing what you said at least keep it to yourself and don't brag about it to denude your arguments of any significance as you apply them to others and not yourself.

 

You make a good point that the game needs to maintain these Premium character subscription rates to continue to not only survive but prosper and if you actually pay this as many other players do, then it would make it seem as if you actually walked the road that you wish to shove others down along without any response from them in turn. It's hard for players who pay for their Premium time through the Wurm Shop to realistically support any suggestions of this sort from those who don't and look upon them favorably. At least for me it is and somehow I don't think my viewpoint is unique in this respect.

 

tldr? Pay to play dude and support the game like those who do. Then weeze beeze friendleeze!

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
forgot sig!
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8 minutes ago, Ayes said:

 

 

 

While I would agree that the 8 euro per month Premium price is not much of a deterrent that prevents players from playing the game initially or continuing to do so, I think your harsh presentation doesn't serve well in your attempt to prove your point.

 

Now from reading your last quote here it makes me think that after you had established your Premium character you never put another single dollar into paying for this Premium character again? Your words there not mine so maybe I am misinterpreting this statement. Yet if this is the case, since you never paid for Premium for that character again after that point in time, or maybe only just a few times that you forgot to mention, then you have not really supported the game by paying for that Premium account, which is actually what you are berating others for in terms of the 8 euros per month Premium subscription fee.

 

I can understand that rightfully so some players who have always paid for their Premium character(s) subscription fee from the Wurm Shop can make a valid claim that they have supported the game's continuance and progress as a result; but, it seems very plain to me that those who have avoided paying this fee by various means have as a result not supported the game's income. No in-depth financial analysis or background required to figure this out, as some would wish to imply.

 

My suggestion would be to move out of the glass house before you take an indignant stand against those who are wishing to suggest even a less significant reduction in the Premium subscription rate which you are paying nothing for anyway. If you are doing what you said at least keep it to yourself and don't brag about it to denude your arguments of any significance as you apply them to others and not yourself.

 

You make a good point that the game needs to maintain these Premium character subscription rates to continue to not only survive but prosper and if you actually pay this as many other players do, then it would make it seem as if you actually walked the road that you wish to shove others down along without any response from them in turn. It's hard for players who pay for their Premium time through the Wurm Shop to realistically support any suggestions of this sort from those who don't and look upon them favorably. At least for me it is and somehow I don't think my viewpoint is unique in this respect.

 

tldr? Pay to play dude and support the game like those who do. Then weeze beeze friendleeze!

You said what I was thinking, and you did it much better than I would have.  May I hire you as my personal representative?

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This thread is a roller coaster. LOL

 

Let me toss this out to Rolf, since I can't even tell what the thread is about any more...

 

Add a subscription model that renews itself without me having to track times. Also, It's 30 days, not a month, so it marches backwards. Change it to be 1 month. If you are up on the 15th this month, you will be next month and forever after.

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4 minutes ago, Audrel said:

This thread is a roller coaster. LOL

 

Let me toss this out to Rolf, since I can't even tell what the thread is about any more...

 

Add a subscription model that renews itself without me having to track times. Also, It's 30 days, not a month, so it marches backwards. Change it to be 1 month. If you are up on the 15th this month, you will be next month and forever after.

I've been informed by staff that it is definitely not our place to offer suggestions pertaining to the payment model of Wurm Online.  This is a good idea, no less, but I was told such feedback and ideas are useless data. *shrugs*

 

I guess it's not for us to decide what is considered useful feedback. :(

Edited by Slickshot
Added a sad face
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Most things I say are useless data. I'm used to it. :lol:

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16 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

You said what I was thinking, and you did it much better than I would have.  May I hire you as my personal representative?

 

Thank you for your appreciation of my casual presentation; however, I do not represent any others but myself in matters posted within these forums. Although I may appreciate and concur with others at times, my questionable remaining time within these foreign lands makes moments such as this only worthwhile as wasting upon myself. A life well wasted is better than leaving any more productive moments behind, for in the end we all face the void alone and I believe the baggage limitations are quite severe.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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9 minutes ago, Ayes said:

 

Thank you for your appreciation of my casual presentation; however, I do not represent any others but myself in matters posted within these forums. Although I may appreciate and concur with others at times, my questionable remaining time within these foreign lands makes moments such as this only worthwhile as wasting upon myself. A life well wasted is better than leaving any more productive moments behind, for in the end we all face the void alone and I believe the baggage limitations are quite severe.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

Did you just call yourself selfish?  Confused lol

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My biggest issue with the pricing model is that a subscription only allows for 1 character.  Sure, I can make a ton of free alts, but for 8e, I only get one unlocked character.  Every game I play, I like to have many characters, doing different things.  Most games allow 5-10 characters on one account, for one subscription price. 

 

Now, to enjoy the full aspect of this game, you have to create your own deed.  Sure, you can just do stuff off deed and be a nomad, but the mechanics of the game are meant to frustrate you into dropping money on a deed, which is now another monthly subscription.  So, 5 characters + a fun sized deed = 6 subscriptions a month. 

 

While it may be reasonable to earn ingame to pay for one character, it gets harder and harder for a casual gamer to earn enough for 2 or more characters.  So, someone that plays multiple characters will have a heavy burden to maintain.  This is something that I don't encounter with other games.

 

For my part, I don't need prem prices to decrease, I just need a prem plan that includes multiple alts.

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1 hour ago, Wurmhole said:

My biggest issue with the pricing model is that a subscription only allows for 1 character.  Sure, I can make a ton of free alts, but for 8e, I only get one unlocked character.  Every game I play, I like to have many characters, doing different things.  Most games allow 5-10 characters on one account, for one subscription price. 

 

Now, to enjoy the full aspect of this game, you have to create your own deed.  Sure, you can just do stuff off deed and be a nomad, but the mechanics of the game are meant to frustrate you into dropping money on a deed, which is now another monthly subscription.  So, 5 characters + a fun sized deed = 6 subscriptions a month. 

 

While it may be reasonable to earn ingame to pay for one character, it gets harder and harder for a casual gamer to earn enough for 2 or more characters.  So, someone that plays multiple characters will have a heavy burden to maintain.  This is something that I don't encounter with other games.

 

For my part, I don't need prem prices to decrease, I just need a prem plan that includes multiple alts.

The only way I foresee this happening is if 2, and only 2 characters were allowed as a premium link.  Anymore than that and you dilute the subscription beyond what it needs to be.  In fact, even a 2 character premium link would cause need for the subscription rate to increase slightly to accommodate the drop in currently subscribed alts.  Something worth thinking about, but not worth holding our breath over.

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11 hours ago, Ayes said:

 

 

 

While I would agree that the 8 euro per month Premium price is not much of a deterrent that prevents players from playing the game initially or continuing to do so, I think your harsh presentation doesn't serve well in your attempt to prove your point.

 

Now from reading your last quote here it makes me think that after you had established your Premium character you never put another single dollar into paying for this Premium character again? Your words there not mine so maybe I am misinterpreting this statement. Yet if this is the case, since you never paid for Premium for that character again after that point in time, or maybe only just a few times that you forgot to mention, then you have not really supported the game by paying for that Premium account, which is actually what you are berating others for in terms of the 8 euros per month Premium subscription fee.

 

I can understand that rightfully so some players who have always paid for their Premium character(s) subscription fee from the Wurm Shop can make a valid claim that they have supported the game's continuance and progress as a result; but, it seems very plain to me that those who have avoided paying this fee by various means have as a result not supported the game's income. No in-depth financial analysis or background required to figure this out, as some would wish to imply.

 

My suggestion would be to move out of the glass house before you take an indignant stand against those who are wishing to suggest even a less significant reduction in the Premium subscription rate which you are paying nothing for anyway. If you are doing what you said at least keep it to yourself and don't brag about it to denude your arguments of any significance as you apply them to others and not yourself.

 

You make a good point that the game needs to maintain these Premium character subscription rates to continue to not only survive but prosper and if you actually pay this as many other players do, then it would make it seem as if you actually walked the road that you wish to shove others down along without any response from them in turn. It's hard for players who pay for their Premium time through the Wurm Shop to realistically support any suggestions of this sort from those who don't and look upon them favorably. At least for me it is and somehow I don't think my viewpoint is unique in this respect.

 

tldr? Pay to play dude and support the game like those who do. Then weeze beeze friendleeze!

 

=Ayes=

I must say you are wrong... he has supported the game by producing goods which other people want to buy and have bought extensively by buying silver from the in game checkout to purchase them.. so sorry man your point is mute, Hashirama attracts alot of business for Rolf and pays for his subsription with silver that has to come from the checkout at some point or it doesnt enter the game.. and don't take offense to my point as you are the first person that liked one of my comments and i will always respect you for supporting a new voice.. a rare thing these days..b4 making a big stand at least look through the eyes of your adversary and put into perspective his view , know thy enemy and you will know thyself as Tsun Tsu said many years ago..

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5 hours ago, Psalamon said:

I must say you are wrong... he has supported the game by producing goods which other people want to buy and have bought extensively by buying silver from the in game checkout to purchase them.. so sorry man your point is mute, Hashirama attracts alot of business for Rolf and pays for his subsription with silver that has to come from the checkout at some point or it doesnt enter the game.. and don't take offense to my point as you are the first person that liked one of my comments and i will always respect you for supporting a new voice.. a rare thing these days..b4 making a big stand at least look through the eyes of your adversary and put into perspective his view , know thy enemy and you will know thyself as Tsun Tsu said many years ago..

I gotta say that's a very loose connection though.  Many players buy silver from other players in-game which does not add anything monetary to CC.  Meanwhile there are those who fork over extra cash to buy silver only from the online shop, and purchase their premium only through the online shop.  Ayes was dead on with his sentiment that such players choose to support CC, while others who pay for premium in-game and buy silver in-game aren't providing much in the way of income.  You can't really track if customers of a merchant buy their silver from the online shop or not, as we don't have that kind of information, but it could be plausibly assumed that many do not due to the lower silver rates offered by players.

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Seriosuly what you are saying is "I don't agree with you so how dare you have an opinion like that." Whe people have this opinion I think its time to take a break from the forums and have a nice big cup of cofdlfee or something and relax.

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33 minutes ago, Ramaraunt said:

Seriosuly what you are saying is "I don't agree with you so how dare you have an opinion like that." Whe people have this opinion I think its time to take a break from the forums and have a nice big cup of cofdlfee or something and relax.

Sad, but true.  Much of the forums has become this way lately.  I've certainly been guilty of it in the past.  Ugly road.

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8 hours ago, Psalamon said:

I must say you are wrong... he has supported the game by producing goods which other people want to buy and have bought extensively by buying silver from the in game checkout to purchase them.. so sorry man your point is mute, Hashirama attracts alot of business for Rolf and pays for his subsription with silver that has to come from the checkout at some point or it doesnt enter the game.. and don't take offense to my point as you are the first person that liked one of my comments and i will always respect you for supporting a new voice.. a rare thing these days..b4 making a big stand at least look through the eyes of your adversary and put into perspective his view , know thy enemy and you will know thyself as Tsun Tsu said many years ago..

 

Psalamon,

In terms of Game Income there is only one way that the game generates it, that is from players who pay for either Premium Time or Silver Coins through the Wurm Shop. In those terms anyone who pays for these expenses by any other means are in fact not generating any Game Income, upon which the game can in the most basic form continue to survive. This is a black and white situation in the terms that I have defined it, being simplified by the fact that this is the only way that the game can generate Income.

 

Now building upon the foundation of this simple financial principle in the case of this game, any other positive effects that the individual player creates from their participation within the game has no effect on their individual purchases of the Wurm Shop if they do not make any to begin with. Furthermore, if they find ways to play the game by avoiding making these payments in the Wurm Shop there is no denying the fact that they are not generating any Game Income. This is the reason why creating mechanisms within this game whereby players can avoid making these payments to the Wurm Shop reduces Game Income to whatever extent players make use of them.

 

Now the fact that Rolf has enabled and approved of these methods does not change the fact that they reduce Game Income. This is the *whole point* of my contention on this issue, that being when other players try to refute the reality of the fact that the game only generates Game Income from the Wurm Shop. This is the way the god of Wurm (Rolf) has setup the ability to make a revenue stream for the game. Any residual side effects be they positive or not in contributing to the extent of player participation and growth are all secondary effects beyond the control of a *consistent* revenue stream, which in terms of this game only comes from purchases from the Wurm Shop.

 

This is why this issue seems very simple to me, since players choices in game play can reduce this income by various mechanisms enabled within this game. Sure, they can play their Premium character(s) for free as some openly admit but this does not change the fact that they reduce Game Income from doing so. Yes, they can bring their friends into the game for some time and they may actually pay for their Premium character or then again maybe not but this does not change the fact that they still reduce Game Income if they personally do not pay for their Premium character from the Wurm Shop. Indeed, they can craft tools in demand selling them to other players, which in turn helps those players enjoy the game more but if they then use these silver coins that others have purchased from the Wurm Shop to pay for their own Premium time and as a substitute for purchasing coins from the Wurm Shop then they are not contributing to Game Income.

 

Now I am not advocating for any changes to be made in the way the game makes income, nor even for eliminating these ways of avoiding paying for Premium time or silver coins from the Wurm Shop, many ways of which I have not even touched upon here. I am merely stating cause and effect in terms of the way the game generates Income and when anyone tries to refute this fact of how the game generates Income I get a bit testy about because they are for some reason trying to deny something that is so basic to this games Income generating capacity that it instantly makes me realize that they are trying to justify what they are doing. This too I find strange because since the god of Wurm (Rolf) has approved of these Income generation avoidance mechanisms that they are using, why would they need to attempt to deny this cause and effect of reduced Game Income from what they are doing.

 

If the game sinks or swims from these mechanisms whereby players can avoid making these payments to the Wurm Shop there is nothing I can do about it. Only the god of Wurm can with his will control these mechanisms and I take no responsibility for that, even if I could. Nor of course would I dare to instruct this god as to how to shape his creation into whatever form he chose, since I could be snuffed out of this world in an instant, or at the least made vanish from these forums at times. Still, this will not hinder me in contesting players who try to make white seem as if it were black under the above described circumstances.

 

I will say also that I was pleased to read that my Like of your early post made when you started was encouraging to you, for you see even I can have a positive effect on players of this game. Yet, if I took a day off of paying for Premium time for every Like that I received the effect would be the same, a reduction in Game Income.

 

tldr? for other folks, Fact: If you don't pay for Premium Time or Silver Coins through the Wurm Shop, you are reducing Game Income, upon which the game depends to survive and even thrive.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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That was a very winded response Ayes, but correct nonetheless. Lol.  The things you said were similar to what I said, so I regret not scrolling for the TL;DR.  Silly me. Haha

Edited by Slickshot
Decided I meant "things" and not "thinks"

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