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Tron

Recent rare changes

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Bring back the old rarity chance for advanced creations with non rare materials ! :)

Edited by Tron

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So creating rares without using rare mats got nerfed?

Any idea how much 'rarer' it is to get a rare now?

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It means creating unfinished complex items is no longer 100%. You can get a roll, but no rare or better.

Edited by Rocklobstar

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3 rolls 3 failes so far to give numbers

 

maybe 1 / total number of items ^^

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11 minutes ago, Rocklobstar said:

It means creating unfinished complex items is no longer 100%. You can get a roll, but no rare or better.

 

Oh, so a rare unfinished forge isn't guaranteed to become a rare forge when last piece is attached for example?

But the base rate remains the same?

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no...it means you will get a roll while spam creating forges, but that roll won't result in a rare unfinished item 100% like before, probably same chanes as attaching a rare item would aka 1/22 for forges.

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Just now, Rocklobstar said:

no...it means you will get a roll while spam creating forges, but that roll won't result in a rare unfinished item 100% like before, probably same chanes as attaching a rare item would aka 1/22 for forges.

 

Oh ok, so just taking it in line with how other non-complex items work then.

So previously it was impossible to fail a rare roll when spamming forges?

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3 minutes ago, Jebrix said:

 

Oh ok, so just taking it in line with how other non-complex items work then.

So previously it was impossible to fail a rare roll when spamming forges?

 it was when the creation itself succeed ..at least it was for me

non complex should still work (like tools) but need some testing on these

Edited by Tron

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8 minutes ago, Rocklobstar said:

no...it means you will get a roll while spam creating forges, but that roll won't result in a rare unfinished item 100% like before, probably same chanes as attaching a rare item would aka 1/22 for forges.

 

So if this figure is correct, it just became 22x tougher to make rare forges etc?

If so, that's an insane nerf, after such a large 'window of opportunity' and hundreds/thousands of rares being made 'the easy way'.

 

That 1/22 figure, was that just for using a rare brick on a unfinished forge? Or at the initial creation stage using 2 rare items?

Edited by Jebrix

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yep^^

 

I think its like : a rare item is really rare vs more people can enjoy it ... but we got fantastics for that :D 

 

 

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Do i get it right that for ships there now will be 1 successful roll in about every 1000-1500 rolls?

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2 minutes ago, Tron said:

yep^^

 

I think its like : a rare item is really rare vs more people can enjoy it ... but we got fantastics for that :D 

 

 

 

So another nerf that hugely negatively affects new players who haven't had the chance to create rares with the old rates for years...

And if it is as huge as nerf as the 1/22 rate suggests, that is insane.... I could have created a huge workshop full of rare forges before I even make 1 now if those figures are right.

 

Well, there goes my dream of creating my own rare items any time soon... :( 

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Awful lot of vague anecdotes and 5-second-thought speculation here, lol.

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I have always had successful failed rare rolls. You have a moment of inspiration... Operation is successful and item is created. It's rarely ever rare. Imping an item rare happens a lot more often. The only rare on creations I have is a large crate and a plate legs. Everything else was imped rare.

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Can't make people happy, apparently.

 

Report a bugfix for rarity not transferring when starting a complex item, and now people are mad that the bug is fixed.

 

Assuming the devs went with the obvious fix here, starting a complex item now follows the exact same rules as continuing one. This also means that part rarity when starting an item actually matters, where prior to this fix you would have totally wasted the rare.

 

Yeah, as a side effect this means it's harder to spam rare boats, guard towers, etc. Maybe that isn't a bad thing, and maybe rare forges and knarrs should actually be a bit more rare. How easy or hard it is to rare something is pretty arbitrary and subject to whatever sort of balance the devs deem appropriate, and rares being more rare will also make them more valuable when you do get them. I mean, ask yourself how easy it should be to spam rare forges, guard towers, or boats. If you just assume the answer has to be "the same way it's always been!" then I don't think you're really analyzing the situation clearly. Optimal game design does not always equal whatever the status quo already is. Yeah, this change does give an indirect advantage to whoever took advantage of the mechanics as they were before, but the behavior is now more consistent, less buggy when starting with rare parts, and it's worth noting that any significant change is going to have that effect, especially if it makes anything harder to do. "But people who did things the old way would benefit!" makes any significant gameplay change a non-starter, and that's highly unfortunate for a game whose development clearly thinks long-term.

 

Note that rarity via improving shouldn't be any different from how it was before.

Edited by Ostentatio
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1 hour ago, Fireflyb said:

Awful lot of vague anecdotes and 5-second-thought speculation here, lol.

 

I was assuming what the others posted to be facts they got from somewhere rather than speculation.

If they were just speculating, then shame on them :P

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40 minutes ago, Ostentatio said:

 If you just assume the answer has to be "the same way it's always been!" then I don't think you're really analyzing the situation clearly. Optimal game design does not always equal whatever the status quo already is. Yeah, this change does give an indirect advantage to whoever took advantage of the mechanics as they were before, but the behavior is now more consistent, less buggy when starting with rare parts, and it's worth noting that any significant change is going to have that effect, especially if it makes anything harder to do. "But people who did things the old way would benefit!" makes any significant gameplay change a non-starter

 

I think the point should be that changes such as this should have been made within weeks of the original addition of rares rather than years later.

Change and bug fixing is great... but such a long window of opportunity leaves it hard to fix.

 

Sure, it is harder to spam create new rare boats etc....but there is already such a huge number in game that I don't think it will make much difference, even within a few years time, except only to make it harder for new players or people who didn't make one during that window.

 

If rare items were 'used up' or lost their rarity, it would have an effect. As it stands currently though, rare items have considerable value, so not many are just left to rot. They get passed on / sold and keep circulating 'forever'.

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Let rares be rare! Right now, we have a market flooded with rares.  It is getting to the point where supremes are the new rare. 

 

Personally, I'd like to see rare chance on creation get reduced or removed and leave the rare chances to successful imping. This would just help reduce needless spam creation of junk.  Think about it... imagine the blacksmith trying to make that perfect sword.  Do you think he would rapidly bang out 1000 rough blades, then pick the one that looked the best, to go from there?  I would imagine they would meticulously work on a single blade, slowly and carefully, to insure it comes out perfect. 

 

So let's reduce clutter and focus on getting rares from improving :) I guess the only drawback is crafts that can't be improved.  Those becomes really, really rare.

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I feel like this thread has no proof at all. I feel like you just made it because your rng is bad. :mellow:

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Long ago the concept of "rares" within this game was made insignificant by the processes that were discovered by players to "improve" their chances of creating them. Then to justify this they came up with the concept that this was legitimate since they had discovered certain procedures that could be followed to "improve" their chances of creating them. Gradually changes were made to reduce these chances in an attempt to make rare creation more random, thus fitting closer to the concept and proving that whatever Developers that made these changes did not approve of the way they were formerly being taken advantage of.

 

With this in mind I say that whatever further steps are taken by the Developers to reduce the predictive nature of "successfully" creating rares by intentionally following certain procedures are positive ones. The past rare creation predictive advantages can not now be undone. All that can be done is to continue along the road of removing these rare creation advantages that are discovered along the way by various players to use to their own advantage, oftentimes with the end goal of making RL monetary profits that may or may not be used within the game for further advantages.

 

=Ayes=

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I understand most points here ...i got this knowledge from a decent source (if i got it right!) and testing... if dev´s and community wants it this way iam ok with it :)

This is just my opinion :) ... for me it never was to make RL money ... the other way i always putted money in for a good game :)

Edited by Tron

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11 hours ago, Jebrix said:

 

I think the point should be that changes such as this should have been made within weeks of the original addition of rares rather than years later.

Change and bug fixing is great... but such a long window of opportunity leaves it hard to fix.

 

Sure, it is harder to spam create new rare boats etc....but there is already such a huge number in game that I don't think it will make much difference, even within a few years time, except only to make it harder for new players or people who didn't make one during that window.

 

If rare items were 'used up' or lost their rarity, it would have an effect. As it stands currently though, rare items have considerable value, so not many are just left to rot. They get passed on / sold and keep circulating 'forever'.

 

I agree with a lot of this stuff in general. Especially as someone who just built a caravel, I get the concept of items not having much of a turnover rate.

 

I also definitely agree with bizarre oversights like this being fixed soon, rather than the developers having to wait for people to catch it in the uncompiled code from the Steam version. It's kind of silly. However, considering how long-term everything in Wurm is, I'm hesitant to say something shouldn't be fixed because of some sunk cost in terms of how it affects players, because then stuff never gets fixed.

 

10 hours ago, Niki said:

I feel like this thread has no proof at all. I feel like you just made it because your rng is bad. :mellow:

 

I disagree with the OP, but his concerns are based on a valid premise. I even linked to the relevant bug report.

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[18:32:51] You have a moment of inspiration...

[18:32:51] You create a Unfinished  guard tower in front of you on the ground.

 

and no rare

 

this wasn't the case before.

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