discussion Wurm Online: Let's Talk Money

[NeeNee 855]

You're a suave one, Slickshot. I just might, if only to mention that I disagree.

[Slickshot 1,195]

2 minutes ago, NeeNee said:

You're a suave one, Slickshot. I just might, if only to mention that I disagree.

Perhaps you'll come to say you disagree and find the discussion rather pleasant.  That is the hope.

[Niki 2,278]

23 minutes ago, NeeNee said:

 

Exactly. Who actually knows what the Wurm books look like? Has Rolf ever told us that Wurm is in trouble and we need to help solve it? 

 

Point of no return for who? WOW has been "dying" for years. Eve has been "dying" for years. My fangirl glasses are on just fine and while, yes, I would love to see another meeting with Rolf to discuss improvements to the game, what do we even know about the financial state of the game? Yes, people left. The sky is not falling. Or it is, and there's not a thing we can do. Asking CC to charge us less to play so we can make more RL money off Wurm is not the answer. 

 

 

Fair point.

 

However you are comparing two successful mmo's to Wurm and it just doesn't work that way. I think adding the game on steam, or keeping what we have now 8€ a month with perks or add a cosmetic cash shop, doing away with premium. Ideas would actually help the game. Another good one is lowering the cost, some of us that play have multiple accounts, priests, pvp alts etc and change nothing. Lastly even better QoL improvement like adopting the standard mmo policy of multiple characters under one account.

 

I play wow, eve for reference, WoW is not dying with the millions of subscribers either EvE does just fine also, wait till WoW:Legion is released, it will skyrocket once again as it always does with expansions. Casual players just move on when they get bored of LFR..it's the way of things.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Niki

[NeeNee 855]

I do like the idea of adding alts to your main account for one premium cost, but like all other games, you'd only be able to log one on at a time. And that premium probably should be the same as other games then. $8-9 a month is so, so cheap. Even A Tale in the Desert is $12 a month and that's just as old as Wurm (maybe older), and more niche-y and grindy.

[Niki 2,278]

Just now, NeeNee said:

I do like the idea of adding alts to your main account for one premium cost, but like all other games, you'd only be able to log one on at a time. And that premium probably should be the same as other games then. $8-9 a month is so, so cheap. Even A Tale in the Desert is $12 a month and that's just as old as Wurm (maybe older), and more niche-y and grindy.

I think 3 characters per account would be fair. This has been suggested before, I think it would help things personally.

[Slickshot 1,195]

All great aspects to debate in the discussion, no doubt.

[elroth 279]

Slickshot i applaud the effort to set up discussions that will benefit the game, but i don't think players are the right people to ask about pricing models.

Even if people try to put on their objective hat, they have invested interest in the subject matter and all cost lowering saves them money. that's a difficult starting point to have an honest discussion.

as a company you need to come up with products and services we desire to buy. we can list things we would pay money for, but as far as amounts go i would  advice you to check the interwebs for a comparison.

[Ayes 3,715]

Slickshot,

I will say that I was impressed by how well you composed your OP and your second briefer follow up statement. I have seen a surprisingly positive evolution of your character on these forums, almost so much so as it has made me wonder if someone else has taken your place.

 

That aside, no I would have no interest in participating in a discussion such as this outside of these forums. My position has not changed, in that I continue to think that it is not up to me to resolve any financial interests of Wurm Online or to plan out any financial strategies for them (Rolf) to pursue, since I have been not hired as their financial consultant. Although I may at times comment here on this topic it is with the intent just to express my opinion and whether it is followed or not I have little concern, as I have never been one to voluntarily take others responsibilities upon myself.

 

It may be a fun type of virtual gathering for some to participate within so I suppose solely on that basis it has some merit, although in the end I suspect little results will come out of any ideas presented. Remember that Rolf has not asked for this type of virtual meeting to be conducted which in turn makes me think he will give the conclusions reached not more than a passing glance and continue along the path which he alone *sort of* knows that he wants to pursue. Probably a good idea to keep this sort of thing off the forums too due to the censorship limitations here, so in that respect a good idea.

 

=Ayes=

[Ecrir 887]

A discussion sounds interesting, though I probably wouldn't be able to participate due to RL if it's a live discussion instead of one spread over several days/weeks on the forums.

 

If we have ideas for the discussion, where would be the best place to send them? I'd imagine that crowd sourcing things could help. For example right now Rolf is focussing on adding modding to WU, likely so he can add good mods to WO. Similar things could be done for item skins, but then better integrated into WO itself:

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Ecrir

[Becket 843]

Sorry I attend enough useless meetings in RL think I will pass.

[Slickshot 1,195]

Thank you for your continued responses. 

[Audrel 2,223]

Why IRC or Teamspeak? They have less users per player than even forums. 

 

EDIT: Nothing to do with your suggestions. Ideas for Rolf to better the game are always great.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Audrel

[Audrel 2,223]

9 hours ago, Niki said:

I think 3 characters per account would be fair. This has been suggested before, I think it would help things personally.

 

I think, but only Rolf knows because we don't see his books, that this is where you will find the bulk of your departed players. They were departed Alts.

[Slickshot 1,195]

10 minutes ago, Audrel said:

Why IRC or Teamspeak? They have less users per player than even forums. 

 

EDIT: Nothing to do with your suggestions. Ideas for Rolf to better the game are always great.

Outside of moderation.  Better chat flow.

[Dairuka 888]

6 hours ago, Slickshot said:

Outside of moderation.  Better chat flow.

 

• Fast scrolling that allows only the fastest typers to be heard.
• Limitations of characters, meaning that only concise barely thought out ideas without context or meaning are ever read.
• Well thought out statements are drowned out quickly, and often aren't read due to being too long and difficult to read in a fast scrolling environment.
• Ideas aren't moderated on forums. Only awful opinions that are repeatedly shouted out in a fit of rage.

I've said it before, and I will say it again. Chatrooms are the worst place to discuss ideas. Anytime someone tries to bring up something important, it ends up in a heated, pointless argument.

 

Forums are slow moving enough for ideas and opinions to actually be read. It allows people enough time to actually learn from discussions, rather than resorting to jumping to conclusions just to save time.

[Slickshot 1,195]

57 minutes ago, Dairuka said:

 

• Fast scrolling that allows only the fastest typers to be heard.
• Limitations of characters, meaning that only concise barely thought out ideas without context or meaning are ever read.
• Well thought out statements are drowned out quickly, and often aren't read due to being too long and difficult to read in a fast scrolling environment.
• Ideas aren't moderated on forums. Only awful opinions that are repeatedly shouted out in a fit of rage.

I've said it before, and I will say it again. Chatrooms are the worst place to discuss ideas. Anytime someone tries to bring up something important, it ends up in a heated, pointless argument.

 

Forums are slow moving enough for ideas and opinions to actually be read. It allows people enough time to actually learn from discussions, rather than resorting to jumping to conclusions just to save time.

Forums also allow for editing, which destroys the flow of conversation.  Forums are also moderated, which leaves the conversation truly at the behest of moderators who can lock the topic at any time they feel it has reached it's maximum potential.  Chat logs cannot be tampered with directly by any participants so you see full thoughts without editing, and you see the evolution of ideas in real time.  Chats aren't without flaws, certainly, but if I were to say this forum would be a better platform for such a discussion I'd have to eat my hat for being a liar or a blatant fool.  There is a reason it's being held in IRC and not the forums.  The reasons are valid and final, but I appreciate the outside and will say that the discussion may transfer from one platform to another if the need arises.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[Dairuka 888]

14 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

Forums also allow for editing, which destroys the flow of conversation.  Forums are also moderated, which leaves the conversation truly at the behest of moderators who can lock the topic at any time they feel it has reached it's maximum potential. 

 

This is the kind of Irony that only you, bloodscythe and I will understand. Well, maybe you're not self-introspective enough to recognize the irony. In either case, I'm going to enjoy this comment until the day I die. Thanks for the laugh.

 

14 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

Chat logs cannot be tampered with directly by any participants so you see full thoughts without editing, and you see the evolution of ideas in real time.  Chats aren't without flaws, certainly, but if I were to say this forum would be a better platform for such a discussion I'd have to eat my hat for being a liar or a blatant fool.  There is a reason it's being held in IRC and not the forums.  The reasons are valid and final, but I appreciate the outside and will say that the discussion may transfer from one platform to another if the need arises.

 

One of my jobs in EvE, was making believable, fake, chatlogs to discredit people, corporations and alliances.

 

I've already explained why chatrooms are awful for discussion. They usually end up being the soapbox for the fastest and angriest typer.

 

[Slickshot 1,195]

17 minutes ago, Dairuka said:

 

This is the kind of Irony that only you, bloodscythe and I will understand. Well, maybe you're not self-introspective enough to recognize the irony. In either case, I'm going to enjoy this comment until the day I die. Thanks for the laugh.

 

 

One of my jobs in EvE, was making believable, fake, chatlogs to discredit people, corporations and alliances.

 

I've already explained why chatrooms are awful for discussion. They usually end up being the soapbox for the fastest and angriest typer.

 

Your opinions and examples are noted, but they are not absolute as the possibilities are far more endless and unique than you give credit to.  Having experience in fraud and fakery doesn't make you insightful; however, particularly in scenarios where positive intentions are the cornerstone of progress.

 

As far as irony goes I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, but I'm glad I could provide you humor over any discord you may feel day to day.    If you're self-introspective you'll understand that irony is, at times, lost in translation because it often exists only in the minds of those who desire it and manufacture it through their personal perspective.  Ponder as you will. 

 

You're more than welcome to join the discussion when it comes about.  Interested?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[Dairuka 888]

17 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

You're more than welcome to join the discussion when it comes about.  Interested?

 

Nah, too busy laughing.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Dairuka
Om nom nom, irony is so delicious.

[Niki 2,278]

Can we create a irc chat for this? Maybe in the wurm channel - would like to see this move forward, I'm sure you can get a few Devs, and PR to attend.

[Slickshot 1,195]

16 minutes ago, Dairuka said:

 

Nah, too busy laughing.

 

Your loss mate.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Slickshot
Pity sorrow

[VentureCo 94]

 

The shop needs to sell different spoilers and neon lights for carts. And perhaps sunglasses for your character.

 

 

 

Also:

2 hours ago, Dairuka said:

....

One of my jobs in EvE, was making believable, fake, chatlogs to discredit people, corporations and alliances.....

....

 

AHAHAHAHA

[Tikki 65]

20 hours ago, NeeNee said:

. Even A Tale in the Desert is $12 a month and that's just as old as Wurm (maybe older), and more niche-y and grindy.

how many people play that game 12 ?   that games forums are dead !!! ...no updates to it in years .. that i recall

[Magykal 171]

It seems to me based on Rolf's recent posts that this game is mostly player-Dev created and player-GM run, so our suggestions aren't exactly telling 'them' how to run 'their' business because most of them are us.  This is a strength, not a weakness and I believe they welcome our input and suggestions as long as we are constructive and professional about it.  I choose to stay and play WO because of the strong community we  have here.  I also spend too much money here, but it's what I love to do.  Most of the frustration seems to come from not understanding the technical or financial constraints that make it difficult to implement everything we'd like to see as quickly as we'd like to see it.  As much as I love it, I am not prepared to pay more for it just to get more bells and whistles.  I still want them though. :-)

[Niki 2,278]

1 hour ago, Tikki said:

how many people play that game 12 ?   that games forums are dead !!! ...no updates to it in years .. that i recall

haven and hearth is a better example...I play that game quite often and even they have hats for sale also! 

proof it can be done:

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Niki