The Decline Continues

[enoofu 206]

Kinda surprised Wurm didn't make a secondary currency system which you would earn ingame, since the Silver system makes the game feel greedy. As a lot of games use Premium currency as giving different benefits then non premium currency so players can Trade more regularly and feel accomplishments for grinding the game

[Fireflyb 920]

Just thought it was interesting to see a full graph of "interest" (in the standard of Google searches) in Wurm online/unlimited over the years.

 

Blue is "wurm online" and red is "wurm unlimited."

 

2009 spike was new graphics I think?  2013 was 1.0 obviously.  Both WU and WO spiked when WU was released, though it was comparatively low and dropped back down anyway, to levels lower than before.

 

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=wurm%20online%2C%20wurm%20unlimited&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Fireflyb

[Slickshot 1,195]

1 hour ago, Balmore said:

Have to say, wurm is a game that has a monetary value to a lot of its players. Of course not everyone thinks this way, but you can buy a lot of accounts and items for either silver or real life currency.

 

I, for instance, have lacked the time to play WO since November. A few weeks ago I decided it's time to sell off all my stuff while it's still worth anything. With the decline of subscriptions I saw potential buyers leave.

With the money I earned by selling all my WO stuff I could buy over 60 copies of Wurm Unlimited. I still don't see any official WO strategy. What's there to make people stay, when they can buy WU once and play the game forever while they are limited to 4 months of premium in WO for the same money.

I'd say there's absolutely no logic behind it.

You have to understand the difference between the two settings first.  Time and time again the one thing I hear from players returning from WU is that they thought the game was fun and all, but it severely lacked the presence of other players.  This isn't to say that WO has a huge player base, as it clearly doesn't, but this kind of feedback shows that WU seems to be more appealing to those who enjoy playing alone for the most part.  WU just doesn't have the dedicated servers necessary for a lot of players to feel comfortable dumping hours and hours of gameplay into a world that might vanish any moment.  Wurm Online, on the other hand, has such dedicated servers, and will continue to have them until only Rolf knows when.  It would seem that most players enjoy the MMO (community) aspect of WO, and would list it as one of the main reasons why they've continued playing over the years.  WU apparently doesn't hold a candle light to this aspect, and rightfully so.

 

I hope that explanation sheds more light on why most Wurm players prefer WO over WU.  The largest population in WU is undoubtedly new players who have never experienced WO or only experienced it very briefly.

[Nappy 1,369]

32 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

You have to understand the difference between the two settings first.  Time and time again the one thing I hear from players returning from WU is that they thought the game was fun and all, but it severely lacked the presence of other players.  This isn't to say that WO has a huge player base, as it clearly doesn't, but this kind of feedback shows that WU seems to be more appealing to those who enjoy playing alone for the most part.  WU just doesn't have the dedicated servers necessary for a lot of players to feel comfortable dumping hours and hours of gameplay into a world that might vanish any moment.  Wurm Online, on the other hand, has such dedicated servers, and will continue to have them until only Rolf knows when.  It would seem that most players enjoy the MMO (community) aspect of WO, and would list it as one of the main reasons why they've continued playing over the years.  WU apparently doesn't hold a candle light to this aspect, and rightfully so.

 

I hope that explanation sheds more light on why most Wurm players prefer WO over WU.  The largest population in WU is undoubtedly new players who have never experienced WO or only experienced it very briefly.

 

Unfortunately too simplistic an answer. Many WU servers are indeed lower population however some WU servers are much larger population wise then servers in WO. With time this particular difference will iron out.

 

The most fun I have had in Wurm PVP happened on a WU server rather then a WO server. A great series of battles, mostly with the end unknown until the last person died, and at the end people joked around and discussed the battle with both kingdoms having the after battle talk together.

 

As far as servers vanishing I would suggest that in it's current state WO is in greater danger. I can't control decisions made by CodeClub however I can control decisions made by me around keeping my server running. CodeClub could have a sudden urge to shut down a server without notice (and if you think about this, things like sudden announcement of WU, fountain pans and other changes that were suddenly announced, they actually have a track record of doing this). The whole uncertainty around what CodeClub will do is actually a major contributing factor to the decline IMHO. In fact I suspect that this one factor alone, if handled correctly, could largely stop the decline of subs.

 

However I don't think WO is all CodeClub is thinking about. I think they have a bigger picture for Wurm that they haven't shared yet. WU has the potential to significantly spur Wurm forward. WO could be even stronger if some real decisions were made around how to better use the WO servers. Right now too many things need to change to bring back the sense of community, population and warm spirits that existed in the past.

 

PVP is a prime example. It should be a clear area of superiority for WO because the anti-cheating tools etc exist in WO but not in WU. Yet people are leaving Wurm PVP in huge numbers. Most aren't going to WU either. Most are just leaving Wurm completely.

 

The largest population of players in WU are actually almost uniformly people who used to play on WO. One problem that both WU and WO have is attracting new people to the game who have never played before.

 

Running a WU server I am constantly asked about differences between configuration of WO and WU. I am seldom asked beginner level questions about cutting down trees etc.

 

Desolation is a 100x skill gain, 10x action gain server with bdew's action timer fix installed. As a player you can level dirt almost at the same speed as a GM once you earn enough digging skill. You can be Shield of the Gone in about 20 minutes.

 

Surprisingly I haven't heard people complain about things being too fast when gaining skills etc. Most just like that they can do the things they want to do when they want to do them.

 

Yes this is different then the grinding mentality that has existed in WO for years. Wurm is a big enough game that it can accommodate people who like to play in different ways. IMHO that's actually what WO needs to do, split up existing servers into clusters that feature different options for how people play the game. Appeal to different audiences rather then just one audience with a very narrow vision of what the game can be. With time some people will have a presence on multiple clusters just so they can enjoy the game in different ways. With configuration variety will also come the chance for more people to find a flavor of the game that appeals to them.

 

We need more new people, WU and WO. What we don't need is more WU is better/WO is better stuff - doesn't help at all.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Nappy

[enoofu 206]

Yeah, no one wants to PVP on WO or WU

 

Personally the main issue is the combat system, which feels a lot more dated then ultima online or eq 

Then follow up be how time consuming it is to build and destroy stuff

 

[Arkonick 557]

24 minutes ago, enoofu said:

Yeah, no one wants to PVP on WO or WU

 

Personally the main issue is the combat system, which feels a lot more dated then ultima online or eq 

Then follow up be how time consuming it is to build and destroy stuff

 

EQ combat was way better than WO/WU and imo light years ahead of WO/WU. I played EQ for 15 years and was there from the start, the difference in 15 years of EQ and WU is EQ fighting got better threw the years as WO never changed if you ask me.

[enoofu 206]

Combat overhaul would also fix some PVE issues which is also pretty Stale, and Cooking also need a general overhaul especially since 99% of vets basically skip that feature with SAC, Refresh spell and Love ability since it was poorly implemented.

 

Sad thing is those 2 things hurt the new players the hardest, and scare quite a few people away

[Hashirama 870]

lol people are hilarious

8 euro a month for premium is no biggie. You do not need to have 10 accounts if you cannot afford them. You can do many things with 1 account. Also, many people earn silvers in game to buy premium. I hardly think there is any need to reduce the premium payments in wurm online. People who are asking for less premium so that they can use more alts because they sell all the stuff there is in game are hypocrites.

I know people who have 11 accounts- all kinds of priests and I know many new players marching in the same direction. These are the people who are wanting to capture the entire market with their accounts. As a result their premium payment is high too because of the output they are getting. 

Now if people think 8 euro a month is too steep and people are leaving caus of that, LOL

There are new games coming everyday, people want to try new games too. Now seeing people moving to new games or being busy in real life, and using that as an excuse to mess up the premium payment structure is absolutely silly. People think if premium cost is reduced they can have many many alts and have more command over the market at less cost. LOL the market prices for items will fall down as well because of that.
 

The OP said that the player count is reducing, and people use this as a convenient excuse to target the premium payment system in wurm.
If 8 euro is too much, earn 10 silver in game, there are plenty of ways to do so. Many people did that, and are still doing that.

There are other things to discuss and improve than something which is already fine. People spend hundreds of bucks in other games without thinking once. But when they have to pay 8 euro for such a nice game like wurm, they start whining because this game allows and implements player feedback better than other games. Seriously.... play the game, dont teach the people who make the game about how much you want to pay.

If you want to play, then pay, otherwise leave.

[FranktheTank 1,901]

remove the buying and selling of accounts on the forums

[Slickshot 1,195]

12 minutes ago, FranktheTank said:

remove the buying and selling of accounts on the forums

This is something of a concept worth at least talking about.  Along with restricting the player-selling of silver for real currency.  It opens a huge can of worms that people tend to be very defensive about because they use Wurm like a real job, and in my opinion it should never be enjoyed that way.  It's definitely worth discussing, but can be a bit tricky to wrangle the herd to have said conversations without the pitch forks coming out.  Here's hoping.

[Pinchaloaf 341]

Let them bring out the pitch forks. They have no leg to stand on. None of the stuff that is sold privately is actually theirs to sell. According to the ToS.

[Marlon 303]

Haha, these posts again. All the turdies haven' left yet. I am staying... A few months ago I thought the whiners were serious... but now i see it's just threats... still here.

 

Either way, I am here to stay, like I was at Newtown, and in 2007 and 2008 and 2009 and so on... The graphs are pretty, good job, wurm was fantastic back then, when "chat" wasn't big and the forums weren't soiled with poison, perhaps it is returning to the old times, less people, less toxins... if that is the king's plan, then hail the king.

 

PS: Ill come help with Mag's scar too.

[Slickshot 1,195]

7 minutes ago, Pinchaloaf said:

Let them bring out the pitch forks. They have no leg to stand on. None of the stuff that is sold privately is actually theirs to sell. According to the ToS.

I absolutely agree, but it doesn't make it any easier to have said discussion.  This very type of discussion is something I want to do soon on IRC, and I made a thread about it.  It has already caught some flack from a few who don't understand the ideals or purpose behind it, and there are a few who are interested to partake.  Hopefully some of these concepts can be successfully received and discussed at length (pros, cons, what works and what cannot work) at said conversation.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[enoofu 206]

Don't think limiting the ability of selling accounts or Silvers will do anything constructive at this point

 

Problem with the economy is that Premium Currency is the only currency, so basically the whole economy contracts when their is no recent expansion or server launch.

MMO's now usually have 3 currency system's which can be used in different ways and some can't buy certain goods that others can. Usually you have a ingame (Promote playing the Game)currency which is rewarded for playing the game, followed by a Premium Currency ($$$), then usually a Factions (Promote Questing)currency that is account bound.

 

[Lockdown 235]

If Rolf ever wants to he can either sell up or shut down and start a new venture. Could be one day we will go to log in and the servers will be gone. (CC's choice) it's not like he even has to warn us. 

 

For those who enjoy wurm keep enjoying it and for those that stick around but claim to hate it they will forever be rustled. 

 

This is the organic way.

[Slickshot 1,195]

5 minutes ago, Lockdown said:

If Rolf ever wants to he can either sell up or shut down and start a new venture. Could be one day we will go to log in and the servers will be gone. (CC's choice) it's not like he even has to warn us. 

 

For those who enjoy wurm keep enjoying it and for those that stick around but claim to hate it they will forever be rustled. 

 

This is the organic way.

I doubt we'd ever get anything less than a warning of imminent shut-down well in advance, but yeah, he could do that if he so pleased.

[Nappy 1,369]

28 minutes ago, Slickshot said:

I doubt we'd ever get anything less than a warning of imminent shut-down well in advance, but yeah, he could do that if he so pleased.

 

With this agreement the stability of Wurm Online servers is no different then WU. In fact since WO is a business the ultimate health of the business really controls the life of the servers.

[Dairuka 888]

One thing that I've always wondered is. How do people read a decline, as death?

 

Is this how anybody reacts whenever their stocks dip in the stock market? If you read this, and said yes, I suggest you seek help quickly, lest you end up as a 1930's businessman building jumper cliche.

 

You should look up Apple's stock history, you silly conclusion jumping hipsters. (Hopefully conclusions are the only jumping being done. Seriously, seek help.)

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Dairuka

[Slickshot 1,195]

15 minutes ago, Dairuka said:

One thing that I've always wondered is. How do people read a decline, as death?

 

Is this how anybody reacts whenever their stocks dip in the stock market? If you read this, and said yes, I suggest you seek help quickly, lest you end up as a 1930's businessman building jumper cliche.

 

You should look up Apple's stock history, you silly conclusion jumping hipsters. (Hopefully conclusions are the only jumping being done. Seriously, seek help.)

 

I don't agree with you often, mostly because I think you're diluted and our approaches are quite different, HOWEVER, I do reserve the right to be proven wrong.  I've been thinking the same thing:  HOW do people read decline as death?  I'm amazed, truly.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Slickshot

[Dairuka 888]

Just now, Slickshot said:

I don't agree with you often, mostly because I think you're diluted, HOWEVER, I do reserve the right to be proven wrong.  I've been thinking the same thing:  HOW do people read decline as death?  I'm amazed, truly.

 

Even when I agree with you, I keep my distance, because your reputation is pretty heavily tainted, and your attempts to seem squeaky clean through intimidation, evasion of points, moderation whenever you're cornered, and follow up picador jabs are slimy and unsavory.

 

On point though, I'm irritated to see how polarized the forums have gotten recently. The cries for a decrease in pricing, and the scare tactics employed from both sides of the argument are distasteful. Hence my desire to bust some chops.

 

Wurm isn't dying. The prices are fine as they are. Lower prices are nice, but they can come at a cost in growth. I'm happy with how fast Wurm is growing and I don't want it to stop.

 

I might be watered down, but that's what it takes to stay a moderate. Extreme positions benefit nobody.

[Slickshot 1,195]

1 minute ago, Dairuka said:

 

Even when I agree with you, I keep my distance, because your reputation is pretty heavily tainted, and your attempts to seem squeaky clean through intimidation, evasion of points, moderation whenever you're cornered, and follow up picador jabs are slimy and unsavory.

Likewise mate.  It's like we're the same person. lol   We agree to be disgusted by each others' taint.  Common ground.

[VentureCo 94]

This game has been running for what, ten years? with a fairly low population pretty much all the time, and it managed to survive just fine.

 

With that in mind, is it really time for a "rescue plan" for these guys as posted here?

How many paid accounts does Rolf/CC need for Wurm to survive? I have no idea, and i doubt the OP has. So i'm not really sure where this panic vibe i'm getting from this thread is coming from.

[Dairuka 888]

9 minutes ago, VentureCo said:

This game has been running for what, ten years? with a fairly low population pretty much all the time, and it managed to survive just fine.

 

With that in mind, is it really time for a "rescue plan" for these guys as posted here?

How many paid accounts does Rolf/CC need for Wurm to survive? I have no idea, and i doubt the OP has. So i'm not really sure where this panic vibe i'm getting from this thread is coming from.

 

Agreed. Many of us predicted this would happen, (The old guard funneling out to WU, to be replaced by the new blood.) although were incorrect about December being the bottom of the decline.

 

If Wurm were a stock, I'd stay invested in it, because they're still actively adding new updates on a regular basis. That alone should speak volumes about their own plans on sustaining the game.

 

To date, I can only name six companies out of tens of thousands that has pulled the bottom out of a game that was still receiving regular updates. Only one came recently in the last year, and that was because of a decision the publisher made. (Lionhead Studios)

 

The only time you should ever worry about Wurm Online's lifespan is if it goes into what we call, "Maintenance Mode."

 

Even then, some MMORPG's live long fulfilling lives in Maintenance Mode. So even that's not a guarantee.

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Dairuka

[VentureCo 94]

I think much of this has to do with Wurm being Rolfs "Baby" so to speak. He would probably rather cut off a leg than to shut this game down.

If some dweebs like Daybreak Gaming or EA were running this show servers would have been shut down a long time ago. Hooray for crazy swedish semi-indie development!

[Milosanx 716]

Even if the numbers drop to practically nothing, there are mmo's out there in maintenance mode and havent had updates for years and they are still going. Once again, I'm not worried at all. Even if Rolf had to get extra work on the side, I'd say he's still keep it going. It's HIS, his craft, game that he has all the power in. He'd never kill it. Anyway that's my oppinion on it.

 

It's a very gloomy thread..we must have one running at all time.